[Vote] (5-42) Changes to Cossack's Withering Fire Promotion

[BliTTzZ]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

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VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 42
Proposer: @BliTTzZ

Current promotion:
25% chance to force an enemy unit to retreat after taking ranged damage. If the unit cannot retreat, it takes 50% more damage than normal.

New promotion:
Cossack's attack forces enemy unit to retreat. If the unit cannot retreat, it takes 33% more damage than normal.

Rationale:
The reason behind this change is like with other retreat chance based mechanics. Less randomness will improve AI warfare performance first of all and also allow better engagement outcome calculations for human players.

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VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 42a
Proposer: @azum4roll
Discussion Thread: (5-45a) Withering Fire consistency

Current Withering Fire:
25% Chance to force an Enemy Unit to retreat after taking Ranged Damage. If the Unit cannot retreat, it takes 50% more damage than normal.

Proposed Withering Fire:
Deals +50% damage to Enemy Units that cannot retreat.

Rationale:
Most of the time you don't really want the enemy to get out of your flanking formation by retreating, as unlike Winged Hussars, Cossacks don't have extra movement speed nor do they automatically move up to the defender's tile. This encourages players to focus more on units in tight formation or trapped in a corner. AI can also make use of this easily.

 

[Tekamthi]

allow better engagement outcome calculations for human players.

As I've reflected on this round's withdrawal proposals, and though I was initially in favor, it strikes me that this will increase human advantage over AI. Will our devs also commit to improve AI to make these predictions? If not, RNG on these functions is better for AI-human parity

The existing mechanisms aren't so bad, plus they have the advantage of being long-standing incumbents... I'm on the fence

 

[BliTTzZ]

As I've reflected on this round's withdrawal proposals, and though I was initially in favor, it strikes me that this will increase human advantage over AI. Will our devs also commit to improve AI to make these predictions? If not, RNG on these functions is better for AI-human parity

The existing mechanisms aren't so bad, plus they have the advantage of being long-standing incumbents... I'm on the fence

Yes, current mechanics work, but still an element of such randomness is not good for warfare in my opinion.

 

[azum4roll]

Gotta ask @ilteroi: does the AI currently factor in knock back abilities like Heavy Charge and Withering Fire when attacking?

If so, it's definitely better to make it always work if a certain requirement is met.

 

[rkkn]

As I've reflected on this round's withdrawal proposals, and though I was initially in favor, it strikes me that this will increase human advantage over AI. Will our devs also commit to improve AI to make these predictions? If not, RNG on these functions is better for AI-human parity

The existing mechanisms aren't so bad, plus they have the advantage of being long-standing incumbents... I'm on the fence

I don't think removing player agency (replacing it with dice rolls) is a good way to improve parity.

 

[Tekamthi]

I don't think removing player agency (replacing it with dice rolls) is a good way to improve parity.

okay, I'm making some assumptions here, but right now, on the status quo RNG basis affecting both the direction and trigger of withdrawals, we have an AI blind to the direction of withdrawal and unaware of whether a withdrawal will take place. Similarly, human is currently blind to both the direction and certainty of the withdrawal.

As proposed this round, we will give human certainty on BOTH the trigger and the direction, while none of the proposals suggest giving the AI this ability. won't be a gamebreaking change, but on balance favors human

 

[ilteroi]

Gotta ask @ilteroi: does the AI currently factor in knock back abilities like Heavy Charge and Withering Fire when attacking?

If so, it's definitely better to make it always work if a certain requirement is met.

no they don't

 

[Stalker0]

@BliTTzZ We have just learned that withering fire actually provides +50% CS versus the enemy rather than +50% damage.

My assumption is you wanted to use the original mechanic and just reduce it. So it would be +33% CS in this case.

Since this was a mistake in the game text I have no issue adjusting the proposal if that is your intention. I will note that changing it to reflect the in-game mechanic will make sponsoring easier.

 

[azum4roll]

@Stalker0 my bad Withering Fire does work as intended. It's only Heavy Charge.

 

[BliTTzZ]

@Stalker0 Yes, feel free to adjust it.

 

[Stalker0]

@Stalker0 Yes, feel free to adjust it.

Turns out it was only heavy charge with the discrepancy, so no change needed

 

[azum4roll]

I sponsor this.