Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 69
@azum4roll's proposal
Current quest rewards:
Base
Influence: 25
Base
Gold: 60
RandomMod: 10
Formula:
Era scaler = 100% for Ancient and Classical, and +50% for each era afterwards
Random contribution = random(RandomMod) * 2. This gives a uniform distribution of random numbers 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18. This number is added to both era-scaled Influence and Gold.
Quest reward modifiers from player: Austria +50%, Foreign Service +50%
Pledge modifier: +15% if pledged to protect
Personality modifier: +25% if Friendly, -25% if Hostile
Same religion modifier: Abode of Peace +25%
Above modifiers stack additively and apply to both Influence and Gold
Gold mods:
Mercantile: x1.5
Maritime: x1.25
These stack multiplicatively.
Problem:
In the very early game, you can get quests to gift Slingers to CS, but the Slingers are so cheap they sometimes cost less than what the CS gives. And then there are the Spearman UUs which don't obsolete until Renaissance, but cost very little compared to the gold reward.
This quest is very easy to complete compared to another quest with slightly lower reward - Bully CS, which obviously pisses off a CS and may trigger a quest to declare war on you. It should have a low reward to match the low cost and risk.
Proposal:
Lower base influence to 20, RandomMod to 5 (same as bully CS) and base gold to 40. These are all simple SQL changes.
@axatin's counterproposal
(see discussion before vote for this proposal there)
Proposal:
Rationale:
As it was pointed out in the discussion of the OP, nerfing the rewards doesn't address the deeper problem of the quest: It can effectively be fulfilled by giving the city-state gold, which is then partially refunded. Beside the fact that this doesn't feel like a good quest design, it is also effectively a trade of gold for influence. It's similar to the vanilla implementation of just spending gold to get influence, and goes against the VP concept of having to use diplomatic units (of course, diplomatic units can also be bought, but at least there are cooldowns, they have to actively travel to the CS, and there's the paper restriction).
With this proposal, an XP requirement is added that forces the player to actually produce the unit, not just buy it. This makes it harder to fulfill the quest and the player is faced with the decision if he really wants to give away a fully-trained unit. The restriction that the quest is not given if there are no buildings that give XP yet prevents having an incentive for delaying Barracks.
One limitation of this proposal is that with the Freedom Policy "Draft Registration" (Full XP for bought units), it would still possible to fulfill the quest as before. On the other hand, in the late game the relative value of the quest has decreased a lot because of the strong rise of unit costs in Industrial, and because diplomatic units can now be produced in high numbers.
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 69
@azum4roll's proposal
Current quest rewards:
Base
Influence: 25Base
Gold: 60RandomMod: 10
Formula:
Era scaler = 100% for Ancient and Classical, and +50% for each era afterwards
Random contribution = random(RandomMod) * 2. This gives a uniform distribution of random numbers 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18. This number is added to both era-scaled Influence and Gold.
Quest reward modifiers from player: Austria +50%, Foreign Service +50%
Pledge modifier: +15% if pledged to protect
Personality modifier: +25% if Friendly, -25% if Hostile
Same religion modifier: Abode of Peace +25%
Above modifiers stack additively and apply to both Influence and Gold
Gold mods:
Mercantile: x1.5
Maritime: x1.25
These stack multiplicatively.
Problem:
In the very early game, you can get quests to gift Slingers to CS, but the Slingers are so cheap they sometimes cost less than what the CS gives. And then there are the Spearman UUs which don't obsolete until Renaissance, but cost very little compared to the gold reward.
This quest is very easy to complete compared to another quest with slightly lower reward - Bully CS, which obviously pisses off a CS and may trigger a quest to declare war on you. It should have a low reward to match the low cost and risk.
Proposal:
Lower base influence to 20, RandomMod to 5 (same as bully CS) and base gold to 40. These are all simple SQL changes.
@axatin's counterproposal
(see discussion before vote for this proposal there)
Proposal:
- The rewards for the quest stay as they are currently
- In order to fulfill the quest, the gifted unit must have a minimum amount of XP (stated in the quest description)
- The amount of XP required is the amount of XP a newly produced unit has when produced in the "best" city
- UI improvement: When selecting a unit to gift to the CS, the hexagons around the units that fulfill the requirements have a different color than white
- The quest will not be given if no buildings that give XP have been built yet (no "0 XP" requirement)
Rationale:
As it was pointed out in the discussion of the OP, nerfing the rewards doesn't address the deeper problem of the quest: It can effectively be fulfilled by giving the city-state gold, which is then partially refunded. Beside the fact that this doesn't feel like a good quest design, it is also effectively a trade of gold for influence. It's similar to the vanilla implementation of just spending gold to get influence, and goes against the VP concept of having to use diplomatic units (of course, diplomatic units can also be bought, but at least there are cooldowns, they have to actively travel to the CS, and there's the paper restriction).
With this proposal, an XP requirement is added that forces the player to actually produce the unit, not just buy it. This makes it harder to fulfill the quest and the player is faced with the decision if he really wants to give away a fully-trained unit. The restriction that the quest is not given if there are no buildings that give XP yet prevents having an incentive for delaying Barracks.
One limitation of this proposal is that with the Freedom Policy "Draft Registration" (Full XP for bought units), it would still possible to fulfill the quest as before. On the other hand, in the late game the relative value of the quest has decreased a lot because of the strong rise of unit costs in Industrial, and because diplomatic units can now be produced in high numbers.
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