[Vote] (5-74) Teocalli - Remove Era Scaling

[Stalker0]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 25 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 74

Teocalli (Current): +2 faith. +3 faith per city with this building per unit killed (era scaling). +1 military supply. +15 XP. +25% religious pressure. -1 unhappy for distress.

Teocalli (Proposal): +2 faith. +3 +5 faith per city with this building per unit killed (era scaling). +1 military supply. +15 XP. +25% religious pressure. -1 unhappy for distress.


Rationale:
The Teocalli actually faith scales in 3 ways throughout the game.

• More cities = more faith per unit killed.
• Late game = bigger wars = more units killed = more faith.
• Era scale = more faith

Combined this makes the Teocalli BY FAR the great yield greater in the game. It generates more faith than the next two faith generators combined in many cases.

This proposal removes the era scaling to a more static value without the era increase. The building still scales in two ways, so its still very strong, but no longer crazy dominate.

 

[pineappledan]

Combined this makes the Teocalli BY FAR the great yield greater in the game

lol.

This is the play to control Teocalli.
We can't limit the yields on kills to only the source city like we did with unique buildings (eg. Greek Acropolis) for 2 reasons:

1. it's impossible to keep track of where each unit came from, and if some of your cities follow different religions you won't know which ones are from teocalli cities. Beliefs can be disjointed from a civilization.
2. If you can manage to get 1 Teocalli. Say, for instance, someone made a wonder give 1 in 1 city for free, then you could produce all units in that 1 city and effectively have the full effect of the belief. It's important that follower beliefs not derive most of their power from a single city. Follower beliefs need to be able to scale with number of cities.

 

[BliTTzZ]

What about just nerfing era scaling? Changing base faith gain from kills up to +5 will provide much more faith in earlier eras, when units are much cheaper.
It could still keep +3 base faith gain, but nerf era scaling from +3 to +1

 

[pineappledan]

The higher base value is needed if it doesn’t scale. By the time I’ve built these in my cities it’s often already medieval era, and I’m up to 6 per kill.

 

[BliTTzZ]

Then make it scale +1 faith per era, this will end up with 9 faith per kill in Information.
But you won't get additional faith early on.

 

[pineappledan]

The scaling for more cities and more unit deaths is more than adequate scaling for the Teocalli. A different era scaling formula from the one that every other ability uses is not necessary.

 

[BliTTzZ]

It is fine only if unit faith purchase costs adjustment passes. If not, then it's questionable.

 

[pineappledan]

Both are good and necessary changes, independent of each other. Though I agree that removing the scaling from faith buildings etc will make controlling era-scaling scaling faith sources an even more pressing issue.

 

[Rekk]

nerf era scaling from +3 to +1

Era scaling is a mechanic common to many different features. It works the same way across all of them. We should not change how era scaling works for one mechanic without changing how it works for all of them.

 

[BliTTzZ]

Era scaling is a mechanic common to many different features. It works the same way across all of them. We should not change how era scaling works for one mechanic without changing how it works for all of them.

So it is not possible to separately change era scaling only for Teocallis?

 

[Rekk]

We will not make an exception for one belief.

 

[BliTTzZ]

We will not make an exception for one belief.

So this means you can't or you don't want to?

 

[N.Core]

So this means you can't or you don't want to?

It's a hassle to do for such a minor change, better just to rework the building to something else.
So, the answer to your question, it's both.

 

[DoveCDog]

The other religious buildings don't scale with era. Having this 1 building scale makes it the obvious choice over the others. I think this is a good proposal.

There is the same problem with God of War and Protection

 

[Zanteogo]

The other religious buildings don't scale with era. Having this 1 building scale makes it the obvious choice over the others. I think this is a good proposal.

There is the same problem with God of War and Protection

I'm actually surprised this isn't brought up more. Protection is crazy good because it has a large effect for the whole game, while the majority are only relevant in the early eras. If you snag fountain of youth with protection you pretty much won.

I'm good with the removal of the era scaling. It will put Teocalli on par with the rest of the religion buildings.

 

[axatin]

I sponsor this.