(5-CP) Counterproposal: Add XP requirement to "gift specific unit" quest

[axatin]

Counterproposal to (5-59) Nerf "gift specific unit" quest

Proposal:

• The rewards for the quest stay as they are currently
• In order to fulfill the quest, the gifted unit must have a minimum amount of XP (stated in the quest description)
• The amount of XP required is the amount of XP a newly produced unit has when produced in the "best" city
• UI improvement: When selecting a unit to gift to the CS, the hexagons around the units that fulfill the requirements have a different color than white
• The quest will not be given if no buildings that give XP have been built yet (no "0 XP" requirement)

Rationale:
As it was pointed out in the discussion of the OP, nerfing the rewards doesn't address the deeper problem of the quest: It can effectively be fulfilled by giving the city-state gold, which is then partially refunded. Beside the fact that this doesn't feel like a good quest design, it is also effectively a trade of gold for influence. It's similar to the vanilla implementation of just spending gold to get influence, and goes against the VP concept of having to use diplomatic units (of course, diplomatic units can also be bought, but at least there are cooldowns, they have to actively travel to the CS, and there's the paper restriction).

With this proposal, an XP requirement is added that forces the player to actually produce the unit, not just buy it. This makes it harder to fulfill the quest and the player is faced with the decision if he really wants to give away a fully-trained unit. The restriction that the quest is not given if there are no buildings that give XP yet prevents having an incentive for delaying Barracks.

One limitation of this proposal is that with the Freedom Policy "Draft Registration" (Full XP for bought units), it would still possible to fulfill the quest as before. On the other hand, in the late game the relative value of the quest has decreased a lot because of the strong rise of unit costs in Industrial, and because diplomatic units can now be produced in high numbers.

 

[Recursive]

One limitation of this proposal is that with the Freedom Policy "Draft Registration" (Full XP for bought units), it would still possible to fulfill the quest as before. On the other hand, in the late game the relative value of the quest has decreased a lot because of the strong rise of unit costs in Industrial, and because diplomatic units can now be produced in high numbers.

Ideology tenets are meant to be powerful, anyway.

 

[pineappledan]

Don’t like this. Too much fine print.

Just change the reward to something other than gold. Maybe Instead.

 

[Tekamthi]

could the reward scale with unit XP?

Unrelated, but on the topic of this CS quest, I kinda wish the CS would specifically request land or naval units, maybe even distinguish between ranged and melee units -- i typically play continents+ map so they're all out at sea on islands, and frequently have a very bad mix of units for their positions... many melee UUs get sunk without ever being able to use their special abilities, and there are few ranged and naval units available to put up proper maritime defence. When I pump my allies full of naval units suddenly they stomp all the neighboring CS's embarked navies, so it has a fun side too, but could be better

 

[axatin]

Just change the reward to something other than gold. Maybe Instead.

And then we can convert gold to science? I don't think that would be better

 

[pineappledan]

could the reward scale with unit XP?

I would like that much more. The ability to liquidate high XP units for quest rewards sounds like a much more interesting choice than “try to find the unit with the least amount of XP in your army that still meets the threshold”

 

[Stalker0]

And then we can convert gold to science? I don't think that would be better

It should be noted that in the early game (which is really what we are talking about concerns here) gold is actual quite precious. I can't just willy nilly buy units for CS quests, I have a lot of build priorities to deal with.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Counterproposal to (5-59) Nerf "gift specific unit" quest

Proposal:

• The rewards for the quest stay as they are currently
• In order to fulfill the quest, the gifted unit must have a minimum amount of XP (stated in the quest description)
• The amount of XP required is the amount of XP a newly produced unit has when produced in the "best" city
• UI improvement: When selecting a unit to gift to the CS, the hexagons around the units that fulfill the requirements have a different color than white
• The quest will not be given if no buildings that give XP have been built yet (no "0 XP" requirement)

Rationale:
As it was pointed out in the discussion of the OP, nerfing the rewards doesn't address the deeper problem of the quest: It can effectively be fulfilled by giving the city-state gold, which is then partially refunded. Beside the fact that this doesn't feel like a good quest design, it is also effectively a trade of gold for influence. It's similar to the vanilla implementation of just spending gold to get influence, and goes against the VP concept of having to use diplomatic units (of course, diplomatic units can also be bought, but at least there are cooldowns, they have to actively travel to the CS, and there's the paper restriction).

With this proposal, an XP requirement is added that forces the player to actually produce the unit, not just buy it. This makes it harder to fulfill the quest and the player is faced with the decision if he really wants to give away a fully-trained unit. The restriction that the quest is not given if there are no buildings that give XP yet prevents having an incentive for delaying Barracks.

One limitation of this proposal is that with the Freedom Policy "Draft Registration" (Full XP for bought units), it would still possible to fulfill the quest as before. On the other hand, in the late game the relative value of the quest has decreased a lot because of the strong rise of unit costs in Industrial, and because diplomatic units can now be produced in high numbers.

Even if you have to train the unit instead of buying it, it would not change much. You could simply save that gold and invest it in the next building that city would build. The overall result would be the same.
And diplomatic units are usually bought with gold, not built. Their gold conversion rate is one of the best.
IMO this proposal would only reduce convenience but not add difficulty or meaningful choices.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I would like that much more. The ability to liquidate high XP units for quest rewards sounds like a much more interesting choice than “try to find the unit with the least amount of XP in your army that still meets the threshold”

It is a more interesting choice for sure. Personally, I would still keep the most experienced units.

 

[axatin]

I sponsor this.

 

[Hinin]

This counterproposal thread has been locked. Discussions and vote on this proposal must continue there.