(5-CP) Counterproposal Austria UA Change

[Solic]

Earlier Proposal

Current Austria UA:

+50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%.

Proposal:

+50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote per 3 marriages, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%.

Rationale:

It's agreed upon here that Austria requires a nerf based on player experience and a consistently highly placed spot in a set of AI only games (although I would say that humans would be able to more easily fight against a diplomatic victory threat as opposed to other victory pursuits, so results would not necessarily transfer to human games and could overstate Austria's dominance).

This nerf is straightforward and curbs one of the more oppressive visible components of the UA, while still giving a noticeable edge in the most important victory pursuit of Austria.

It differs in the original proposal by being more straightforward to implement and not altering the way Austria has played before. I would disagree with the original proposal that +50% bonus from CS quests is a sideshow. In fact it is already quite powerful and sufficiently nudges Austrian players to care more about quests and go more out of their way to try and complete them. The tauted "more strategic" choice in choosing when to marry and then decide what resting influence is kept on there overcomplicates an already complicated unique mechanic to this civ. I don't think that Austria needs to be shown to be even more diplomacy focused in gaining 1 diplomat point and losing 5% GP generation. Lastly, increasing WC votes in some manner is an unique mechanic that makes Austria stand out and frankly I'd say that at least one diplomatic civ should have such a kind of an ability.

 

[Solic]

I considered some other kind of potential nerfs, but I think I am only permitted to post one counterproposal, so if anyone else feels these might fit better in some form go right ahead:
- May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increase resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote per 2 marriages, +50% bonus from CS quests and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%.
This puts all the eggs of Austria in the marriage basket, which gives them more of a focus. It also yields them without a bonus until they can get their first marriage however, which hurts their early game. It makes it harder to gain marriages too and easier for other civs to obstruct Austria from gaining them. In the long run, they will gain much of their original power however.
- +50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote extra to any Austrian embassies, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%
This curbs the vote bonus too, but in a more interesting way. It also makes an ability use the embassy mechanic, which is thus far untouched in any UA that I know of. Only a 4UC component of the Iroquis does something minor with embassies.
- +50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS that do not contain a rival embassy using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%
This makes it significantly harder to make a marriage and gives another way of countering Austria peacefully. The downside to this is limiting such a unique cool component in marriages.

 

[pineappledan]

you cant make the UA description any longer without dropping something. 5 lines long is too long for the UI.

 

[Solic]

View attachment 666475
you cant make the UA description any longer without dropping something. 5 lines long is too long for the UI.

What would be the character limit then? I have no idea how I could format it like that, but I'm sure that it can be reworded to fit on 4 lines. Either through abbreviations or for instance replacing the "While at peace with the City-State" bit with Peaceful marriages.

 

[pineappledan]

I just rewrite it in the civtext.sql in the VP mod folder and load the game in to look at the spacing.

There are only 2 civ UA descriptions that are 4 lines long, and it is the hallmark of a bloated, overcomplicated UA that isn’t well-designed. A good UA can be described in 2-3 lines. 5 isn’t even allowed.

 

[Solic]

I just rewrite it in the civtext.sql in the VP mod folder and load the game in to look at the spacing.

There are only 2 civ UA descriptions that are 4 lines long, and it is the hallmark of a bloated, overcomplicated UA that isn’t well-designed. A good UA can be described in 2-3 lines. 5 isn’t even allowed.

I'll note that the original proposal suffers from this same problem. It's personally fine for me to have another UA with 4 lines.

 

[pineappledan]

yeah it's not great, but it is shorter than the current one:

 

[DoveCDog]

I considered some other kind of potential nerfs, but I think I am only permitted to post one counterproposal, so if anyone else feels these might fit better in some form go right ahead:
- May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increase resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote per 2 marriages, +50% bonus from CS quests and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%.
This puts all the eggs of Austria in the marriage basket, which gives them more of a focus. It also yields them without a bonus until they can get their first marriage however, which hurts their early game. It makes it harder to gain marriages too and easier for other civs to obstruct Austria from gaining them. In the long run, they will gain much of their original power however.
- +50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote extra to any Austrian embassies, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%
This curbs the vote bonus too, but in a more interesting way. It also makes an ability use the embassy mechanic, which is thus far untouched in any UA that I know of. Only a 4UC component of the Iroquis does something minor with embassies.
- +50% bonus from CS quests. May arrange marriages with allied CS that do not contain a rival embassy using gold (not explicitly noted, cost: 500 gold, +100 per previous marriage). While at peace with CS, marriages increasing resting CS influence by 200, grant 1 vote, and boost GP generation in the capital by 15%
This makes it significantly harder to make a marriage and gives another way of countering Austria peacefully. The downside to this is limiting such a unique cool component in marriages.

Submitted your embassy idea as (5-30c)

 

[Enginseer]

I will sponsor this.

 

[axatin]

Proposal was combined with other proposals for voting master thread.