"-5 First Impressions of You"....Did I have something in my teeth?

[steveg700]

So, one of the more obtuse diplo mods is the "first impression" modifier, which might be positive or negative. Anyone figured what this correlates to?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Random, as far as I can tell.

 

[Esperr]

So, one of the more obtuse diplo mods is the "first impression" modifier, which might be positive or negative. Anyone figured what this correlates to?

Irrelevant, they hate you no matter what.

 

[Jaybe]

Probably a hidden agenda, only moderately applied.

 

[Europa Victrix]

Random, as far as I can tell.

I suspect it's slightly randomized to create early diplomatic instability and wars. Not that it matters with the current state of the AI.

 

[Ryika]

Randomized, with generally more negative numbers on higher difficulties as far as I can tell. Makes sense as a tool to make diplomacy more difficult, and works pretty well in theory, meaning that you still have a chance to fix your relationship but will need to invest into it - which is possible, but given that in general diplomacy is heavily weighted towards negative relationships and positive relationships usually really doesn't mean much other than getting weighted deals for a while, hardly ever worth the effort.

Of course there's also the Turn 1 Negative Meeting Bonus -> Turn 2 Denouncement scenario that you simply can't recover from.

 

[steveg700]

Randomized, with generally more negative numbers on higher difficulties as far as I can tell. Makes sense as a tool to make diplomacy more difficult, and works pretty well in theory, meaning that you still have a chance to fix your relationship but will need to invest into it - which is possible, but given that in general diplomacy is heavily weighted towards negative relationships and positive relationships usually really doesn't mean much other than getting weighted deals for a while, hardly ever worth the effort.

Of course there's also the Turn 1 Negative Meeting Bonus -> Turn 2 Denouncement scenario that you simply can't recover from.

Meh. I think that difficulty settings need a little more customization. I don't really feel like it makes sense that playing at a higher difficulty means an innate penalty to every aspect of the game.

 

[oakdragon]

Randomized, with generally more negative numbers on higher difficulties as far as I can tell. Makes sense as a tool to make diplomacy more difficult, and works pretty well in theory, meaning that you still have a chance to fix your relationship but will need to invest into it - which is possible, but given that in general diplomacy is heavily weighted towards negative relationships and positive relationships usually really doesn't mean much other than getting weighted deals for a while, hardly ever worth the effort.

Of course there's also the Turn 1 Negative Meeting Bonus -> Turn 2 Denouncement scenario that you simply can't recover from.

I keep forgetting to test it to be sure, but I've wondered if it relates to sending a diplomatic party to the other civ. I've found that if you don't send one on the turn you meet them, you often can't at all after that for many turns.

 

[Victoria]

It seems at low levels its around +6 and high levels -6. There is some variation in this and some first_meet parameters like distance away but have not worked them all out. The leaders.xml has most modifiers but this one is just based on difficulty with a few other factors that can change it slightly. Looks like its just tweaked too high on diety/immortal.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

It seems at low levels its around +6 and high levels -6. There is some variation in this and some first_meet parameters like distance away but have not worked them all out. The leaders.xml has most modifiers but this one is just based on difficulty with a few other factors that can change it slightly. Looks like its just tweaked too high on diety/immortal.

Does what units you discover the AI with matter? Will you get a better first impression from a scout than from a warrior?

 

[Ryika]

I keep forgetting to test it to be sure, but I've wondered if it relates to sending a diplomatic party to the other civ. I've found that if you don't send one on the turn you meet them, you often can't at all after that for many turns.

The theory is that there's a hidden number that determines your "real" standing, while the modifiers shown in the diplo menu are just... well, modifiers for that number, that get added/subtracted every turn. That's why you can always send a Delegation on the turn you meet the Civ, before the relationship starts going downhill on the next turn.

The first impression does not correlate with the Delegation though, the number is already determined the moment you meet them, and your delegation can only add a positive modifier to counter-balance that number a bit.

Not sure about inviting somebody to your capital or visiting theirs has any effect. Thematically it would certainly make sense, but of course that doesn't tell us whether they've actually implemented that or not.

 

[JosephC]

I haven't tested it or anything but I had assumed it was based off 2 things.
- Did you invite them to your nearest city/Did you go to their nearest city?
- Generally how have you been doing with respects to their agendas.

Again, pure speculation but I was imagining something like:
Primary agenda: ±3
Hidden agenda: ±2
Accepting/Declining Invitation: ±1

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I think a first impressions modifier to make diplomacy harder on the high levels is totally fine. It just needs to be accompanied by a much more robust and fair mid-game diplomacy system than currently exists. If agendas, warmongering penalties, and different government penalties weren't so completely absurd (each in their own way), then this first impressions modifier would be a good challenge. As is, it just means the AIs hate you right away and never stop.

 

[kampori]

First impressions based off my experiences depend on several things-

Obviously if you treat them with respect, share information, send/receive delegates.
Then it's how well you're doing. Do you have a strong military? Strong economy? Several cities? Districts in place? Religion?

On games in higher difficulties where I meet a Civ early on, and have none of the above, I will always have a bad first impression from them.
However if I do have the above things, I almost always have positive first impression.

 

[Cabbagesavager]

The theory is that there's a hidden number that determines your "real" standing, while the modifiers shown in the diplo menu are just... well, modifiers for that number, that get added/subtracted every turn. That's why you can always send a Delegation on the turn you meet the Civ, before the relationship starts going downhill on the next turn.

The first impression does not correlate with the Delegation though, the number is already determined the moment you meet them, and your delegation can only add a positive modifier to counter-balance that number a bit.

Not sure about inviting somebody to your capital or visiting theirs has any effect. Thematically it would certainly make sense, but of course that doesn't tell us whether they've actually implemented that or not.

Inviting other civs give a separate modifier "friendly meeting". It seems different from first impression and decays quickly.

 

[Victoria]

Does what units you discover the AI with matter? Will you get a better first impression from a scout than from a warrior?

One realizes ones question was rhetorical however one needs the fastest thing earliest to discover a second continent as it matters significantly to England... My kingdom for a horse!

 

[Nefelia]

Does what units you discover the AI with matter? Will you get a better first impression from a scout than from a warrior?

From my experience, no. Someone would need to experiment with a large sample size to be sure either way.

 

[Roxlimn]

I actually get positive modifiers sometimes on King, and it kind of does matter if you mind the denouncements all that much. From my perspective, I like them both? Sometimes I want Civs to denounce me so I wouldn't have to do it and then I can open the CB. No penalties on some actions. That's pretty okay by me. If I'm Gorgo and I got denounced and then that guy is beating on my City State? That's war and I'm going to rake in that culture. Sorry, Philip. Not really.

At the same time, I'm getting sweet deals and massive trade and tourism from Egypt. That's good.