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- Thread starter member66170
- Start date
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
The +20 is to combat strength, not ranged combat. (So it makes them defensive)
stealth_nsk
Deity
It makes them survivable. With 45 melee strength in Industrial+ it's really hard to live behind the enemy line, where combat-focused Ranger is supposed to be. 65 is way better.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
I was trying to find a 'generic' title for the unit: SEAL, Delta Force, SAS, Spetsnaz, Commando, and such are really specific to individual countries' special forces-type units. I wanted to keep it general, partly so that more specific titles could be used for potential UUs later on.
You were right about grenades being a siege weapon, but grenadiers were for a long time (still in some places) a more general term for elite, shock infantry. Considering such a unit would also heavily be used to attack cities in civ, I think the name makes sense for a civ 17th century heavy melee unit. I think messing around with 'unusual' bonuses for non unique units at this point is premature. In general I'd rather have minimal changes to the structure and balance of the game, unless you can argue this is a critical one
You're also right about Fusiliers, it's a great name. Specially as I'd rather keep 'Line Infantry' as a generic name for the whole upgrade line
As for the rest, I feel like it's mostly trying too hard to force the game down a path it isn't made to go. Again, small tweaks are better than abolishing entire upgrade lines.
Right now I don't really think we know enough about the last 2/3s of the game to force it anywhere! I produced an example of how, knowing what we know now, I'd like to see the known units distributed. BUT I want to see more of how the units, unit strengths, bonuses and Combat Resolution work. I want to see just how hard it is to take or reduce a city with Renaissance Walls or no walls in mid-game. I want to see more on how well the Tech and Social Policy/Culture Trees interact. There are just too many details still unknown to start changing anything.
A few weeks/months after release when those details become obvious, maybe, it will be time to sit down and 'tweak' units and capabilities. Right now, the only sure bet is that Something will need Major Tweaking among the Units, Upgrades, Strengths, or Bonuses, because there hasn't been a Civ game yet in which that wasn't a requirement!
MistyRonin
Warlord
The generic term is Special Operations for the SEAL, Delta Force, SAS, Commando, Special Forces. Although Delta Force and SAS are really specific units, while the rest are more generic terms.
Spetsnaz is actually a misunderstood term, it simply means special purpose, which doesn't specifically need to be special ops. There are many different Russian units with that moniker.
- - -
BTW I can live with knights being upgraded to tanks, some countries still had cuirassier units close to the end of the 19th century (France used them later in the opening stages of WW1)...
http://guns-gas-trenches.tumblr.com/post/134158158889/the-french-used-armored-cavalrymen-cuirassiers
But I find kind of odd that pikemen don't evolve to fusiliers during the industrial era, although if we are pendantic there's still a country's armed forces that mainly uses pikes in a daily base, the Vatican's Swiss Guard
Spetsnaz is actually a misunderstood term, it simply means special purpose, which doesn't specifically need to be special ops. There are many different Russian units with that moniker.
- - -
BTW I can live with knights being upgraded to tanks, some countries still had cuirassier units close to the end of the 19th century (France used them later in the opening stages of WW1)...
http://guns-gas-trenches.tumblr.com/post/134158158889/the-french-used-armored-cavalrymen-cuirassiers
But I find kind of odd that pikemen don't evolve to fusiliers during the industrial era, although if we are pendantic there's still a country's armed forces that mainly uses pikes in a daily base, the Vatican's Swiss Guard
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Special Operations refers to the activities, Special Operations Forces or Special Operations Command refers to the troops/units, or so I was told by members of the US Army's Special Forces units. As stated, it covers a wide range of units, including in some countries, outfits that are not even legally or structurally part of the military.
I was using Spetsnaz in its original form, as part of the title of the "NKVD Separate Motorized Rifle Division for Special Purposes named for F. E. Dzherzhinskii", the unit in Moscow which provided the parent HQ for many of the NKVD's behind-the-(enemy) lines Special Purpose teams from 1941 to 1945. The term was also applied to the wartime 'Guards Miner' battalions and one brigade which operated behind enemy lines to both recon routes for penetrating mechanized forces and destroy bridges and roads before the enemy could use them - classic 'Special Operations' work. Since WWII, the term has, I think, become generally recognized as the descriptive, if general, term for the Russian Special Operations units.
MistyRonin
Warlord
No. I'm afraid that in Russia the term is used by any unit that doesn't fit the generic regular role, like some recon, sapper, etc. I've been scolded many times by Russian soldiers for using he term Spetsnaz as an equivalent of Western Spec Ops units. Russian Spec Ops are called literally 'Special Operations' Силы специальных операций Вооружённых Сил Российской Федерации
Use Google or any translator for this page: http://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/details_rvsn.htm?id=14234@morfDictionary
Due to a project, these last two years I've been working closer to many active military in different armed forces (mainly from US, Russia and UK). I can assure you that Spec Ops is the generic term world-wide for the units specialised in irregular warfare.
Spec ops command or forces is simply the way certain units are organized. For instance the top Spec Ops command in the US is USSOCOM, that is divided in smaller commands for the diff branches, like the MARSOC for the Marine Raider Units.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Thank you: that's good to know. As you might tell from my earlier post, my own expertise, such as it is, is on the Soviet military of the Great Patriotic War, and my latest Russian Military Dictionary is dated 1953 to be near-contemporary with that!
ferenginar
Grand Nagus
I find the field cannon to machine gun rather stupid, particularly so, as the range is reduced from 2 to 1 in the process. Now my carefully placed defensive positions are susceptible to the endless stream of AI archers and catapults that refuse to come in range.
