.

A quick question: I've heard several times about a bonus that swords have against spears/pikes, is that confirmed?


I'm stealing your table Akkarin:

|Ancient|Classic|Medieval|Renaissance|Industrial|Modern|Atomic|Information
Shock (Melee)|Warrior|Swordsman|| Grenadier ||Infantry||Mechanized Infantry
Line (cheap resourceless, anti cav)|Spearman||Pikeman||Musketman| Infantry || Mechanised Infantry
Heavy Cav|Chariot||Knight|||Tank||Modern Armor
Light Cav||Horseman|||Cavalry||Helicopter|
Ranged, Standard|Slinger, Archer||Crossbowman||Field Cannon|| Mortar |
Siege||Catapult||Bombard||Artillery||Rocket Artillery
Support |Battering Ram | Siege Tower | Military Engineer || Medic | Baloon, AT | AA, Machine Gun | Bazooka

Changes I want to see and/or make in red:

Grenadier = old musketman, requires Niter, bonus against spears/pikes/muskets

Musketman is a new unit with a flintlock musket and a socket bayonet, think Napoleon line infantry. Str 60, no resource requirement, available at military science. That makes it as strong as pikeman against cavalry, but able to stand up to other units of similar era. Relationship between grenadier and musketman is the same as between swordsman and pikeman. Redcoats and Imperial Guard replace this unit

Mortar = old machine gun

AT, Bazooka, Machine gun are new support units specialised against tanks and infantry.


Am I the only one who thinks those make more sense?

I actually like this upgrade path the best. It addresses the issue of no industrial era musket/fusilier unit where some civs have those. Sadly I doubt something like this will be in game absent a mod. This makes the melee class upgrade akin to the same path from Civ Rev which also went warrior/swordsman(legion)/musketmen/infantry....
 
I actually like this upgrade path the best. It addresses the issue of no industrial era musket/fusilier unit where some civs have those. Sadly I doubt something like this will be in game absent a mod. This makes the melee class upgrade akin to the same path from Civ Rev which also went warrior/swordsman(legion)/musketmen/infantry....

It should be easy enough to mod. The Redcoat seems to have two different models. Take one of those and make it the Line Infantry.
 
A quick question: I've heard several times about a bonus that swords have against spears/pikes, is that confirmed?

I'm stealing your table Akkarin:

|Ancient|Classic|Medieval|Renaissance|Industrial|Modern|Atomic|Information
Shock (Melee)|Warrior|Swordsman|| Grenadier ||Infantry||Mechanized Infantry
Line (cheap resourceless, anti cav)|Spearman||Pikeman||Musketman| Infantry || Mechanised Infantry

I like the idea of the grenadier but the last "Shock" line infantry should be paratroopers (unit that has been present in other civs).

In real life airborne units and their evolution of them (spec ops) are the ones used as shock infantry in modern conflicts while mech inf is the "cheaper" / less trained one.

Although Naval Infantry / Marines are also used as elite light line infantry (without assigned vehicles) in most armed forces.

I'm also curious if civ 6 will include Marines and paratroopers as other civs did.
 
I like the idea of the grenadier but the last "Shock" line infantry should be paratroopers (unit that has been present in other civs).

In real life airborne units and their evolution of them (spec ops) are the ones used as shock infantry while mech inf is the "cheaper" / less trained one.

Although Naval Infantry / Marines are also used as elite light line infantry (without assigned vehicles) in most armed forces.

I'm also curious if civ 6 will include Marines and paratroopers as other civs did.

"Marine" is an available level 2 promotion for melee units

I'm guessing Paratroopers will either be
1. a promotion available to gunpowder tech units
2. an ability of bombers
3. enabled by a building from aerodromes
4. possibly an advanced unit in the recon line
 
"Marine" is an available level 2 promotion for melee units

I was not aware. Thanks.

I'm guessing Paratroopers will either be
1. a promotion available to gunpowder tech units
2. an ability of bombers
3. enabled by a building from aerodromes
4. possibly an advanced unit in the recon line

That would make them really interesting (specially 1 and 3).
 
In real life airborne units and their evolution of them (spec ops) are the ones used as shock infantry in modern conflicts while mech inf is the "cheaper" / less trained one.

The SEALs were one of my favorite units in IV... a Special Forces unit in VI would be cool.
 
I really like the idea of paratroopers being the final unit in the recon path: scout > ranger > paratrooper.
 
1. Corps(and armies), which suspect become available during the renaissance, will also provide a substancial power boost. I suspect this may be the reason why there is a 2 eary gap between Pikeman<->Bazooka; Knight<->Tank and Horseman<->Cavalry. Otherwise there may have been a very steep powerspike in the Renaissance and Industrial if you got corps and lots of new units.

2. Firaxes may simply have had trouble thinking of a scheme that is historically fitting. If you have tanks and AT units in the modern era and knights and pikemen in the medivel era, you cant have a "upgrade every 2 eras" path. So either you skip 2 eras or have an upgrade directly in the next era. Both option kinda suck.

3. From a mechanical perspective, ignoring corps, this would be my favourite:

Start|Ancient|Classic|Medieval|Renaissance|Industrial|Modern|Atomic|Information
Melee, Standard|x||x||x||x||x
Anti-Cav, ||x||x||x||x|
Heavy Cav||x||x||x||x|
Light Cav|||x||x||x||x
Ranged, Standard|x|x||x||x||x|
Siege|||x||x||x||x
 
I'm stealing your table Akkarin:

|Ancient|Classic|Medieval|Renaissance|Industrial|Modern|Atomic|Information
Shock (Melee)|Warrior|Swordsman|| Grenadier ||Infantry||Mechanized Infantry
Line (cheap resourceless, anti cav)|Spearman||Pikeman||Musketman| Infantry || Mechanised Infantry
Heavy Cav|Chariot||Knight|||Tank||Modern Armor
Light Cav||Horseman|||Cavalry||Helicopter|
Ranged, Standard|Slinger, Archer||Crossbowman||Field Cannon|| Mortar |
Siege||Catapult||Bombard||Artillery||Rocket Artillery
Support |Battering Ram | Siege Tower | Military Engineer || Medic | Baloon, AT | AA, Machine Gun | Bazooka

Changes I want to see and/or make in red:

I like a lot of this, but if I may, there are some 'nomenclature' changes and Upgrade changes that I'd like to suggest:

Grenadier = old musketman, requires Niter, bonus against spears/pikes/muskets

'Grenadiers' were actually Siege Weapons, using gunpowder grenades to clear the defenses before an assault, which became elite assault infantry. Better to keep the old and familiar term Musketman for the matchlock musket-carrying soldier that the Civ VI graphic depicts. The difference I'd make is that he and his successors with 'gunpowder' shoulder weapons would get a Civ V-Zulu Impi-style 'fire before Melee' capability. In the case of the Musketman, his melee factor would actually be lower than the Pikeman, but his fire factor would (normally) make up for it.

Musketman is a new unit with a flintlock musket and a socket bayonet, think Napoleon line infantry. Str 60, no resource requirement, available at military science. That makes it as strong as pikeman against cavalry, but able to stand up to other units of similar era. Relationship between grenadier and musketman is the same as between swordsman and pikeman. Redcoats and Imperial Guard replace this unit

At the time it was introduced (1680 - 1700) the flintlock musket was called a Fusil, and the original troops armed with it were called Fusiliers. It's a good descriptive term, much better than the generic 'Line Infantry' sometimes used. Everything else should stay the same, except that I'd add the Pre Fire ability as for the Musketman, and 'tweak' the melee factors accordingly AND both Musketman and Pikeman can Upgrade to this unit: the Fusil marked the introduction of Universal Infantry all armed with the same weapon, and the demise of 'mixed units' of pikemen and musketmen, swordsmen and pikemen, and all the other Renaissance combinations

Mortar = old machine gun

AT, Bazooka, Machine gun are new support units specialised against tanks and infantry.

Don't need Mortars or Machine-guns, see below:

Here comes my Major Change: Make the Bombard a Support Unit. Bombards had one purpose only: they made all previous Walls and fortifications obsolete, and forced governments to spend massive amounts of money to build whole new types of fortifications around their cities - the Italian Trace or Vauban or Star Forts or what the game, I suspect, is calling Renaissance Walls. Bombards stacked with a melee unit next to an Ancient or Medieval wall would negate all of its effects.
BUT Bombards took hours to reload - they have no effect on military units unless the enemy is cooperative enough to sit down in front of the Bombard and have lunch...

Make AA Gun and 'AT' (Missile) also Support units, in the Modern and Atomic Eras respectively. That gives the game a Support unit of varying capability in each Era from Ancient to Atomic.

Add a Scout/Ranger Upgrade to either the Atomic or Information Era (Atomic would be historical, but Information would be more symmetrical for the game): SEAL is purely American, so I suggest calling them 'Special Forces' - they'd combine the capabilities of scouting, artillery/air spotting, and Paratroops - maybe throw in some Spy attributes as well...

Finally, the Ranged and Siege lines should merge at Artillery, just as the 'Line' and 'Shock' infantry lines merge at Fusiliers. This greatly simplifies the late-game Upgrades and eliminates the need for units like Machine-guns and Mortars that are, in fact, an integral part of every Infantry unit - in fact, they are the biggest difference between modern (WWII) infantry and the 'riflemen', 'fusiliers' and 'musketmen' who came before: it's heavy weapons like them, not the weapon carried by the individual, that do most of the killing.

This results in late game land forces that are actually composed of far fewer regular units than in previous Civ games: one basic melee infantry type, one basic ranged/siege type, armor, helicopters and special forces for your 'specialized' types, and support units for flavor where you need it.

Am I the only one who thinks those make more sense?

Not at all. But as has already been noted in this Thread, we're not likely to see any of these changes until a later DLC: I think they're settled in to go with the mistakes they've already made... ;)
 
Aren't Samurai unlocked by some military logistics type tech? Are they a unit replacement or are they outside this chart?
 
Yeah Samurai are like Beserkers, like Redcoats etc, unique little snowflakes :)

1 Vote for Lord Olleus design changes in full :)...well outside of minor descriptive text changes
Main thing is the modern Support Unit Changes. Giving Modern Armies support units (moveable specialised upgrades...exactly :)) that encompass the full spectrum of Modern Warfare...A.I, AT, AA is perfect, an amkes sense... you dont have a machine gun unit do you. but you can always add a MG42 squad. You can always add a Panzerhaust Squad.

Apologies for the WW2 specific terminology... I picked up Company of Heroes 2 over the weekend.... damn you Panzerhaust Spam :mad:
 
Is it just me wondering, that it is quite odd in the Kongo livestream, When they selected the city building screen, that there was no option shown to build artillery? Not even greyed Out with a tool tip what Would be required to build it like a special district (the encampment was build in the city) or building.

So, does an artillery need barracks To be Build or could it be that it is upgraded to sth else? But what do we have there? AT team, machine gun and anti air. Would be weird if it Would be upgraded to sth like that ...

Or do I just miss sth.?
 
Is it just me wondering, that it is quite odd in the Kongo livestream, When they selected the city building screen, that there was no option shown to build artillery? Not even greyed Out with a tool tip what Would be required to build it like a special district (the encampment was build in the city) or building.

So, does an artillery need barracks To be Build or could it be that it is upgraded to sth else? But what do we have there? AT team, machine gun and anti air. Would be weird if it Would be upgraded to sth like that ...

Or do I just miss sth.?

The city is already building an artillery. The list only shows things you could change to.
 
The Ranger is a recon unit. But it is strong and you can build it in corps. So maybe the recon line is also for real fighting in the industrial era.
 
The Ranger is a recon unit. But it is strong and you can build it in corps. So maybe the recon line is also for real fighting in the industrial era.

Recon units have promotions which make them combat-oriented (+20 strength, for example). If you plan to use them like this, corps and armies are k for them.
 
Recon units have promotions which make them combat-oriented (+20 strength, for example). If you plan to use them like this, corps and armies are k for them.

Which means there is an industrial era melee unit after all. It's just not upgradable from Musketmen/Pikes and you will probably need to build them since you might not have too many scouts. +20 strength? Wow!
 
Which means there is an industrial era melee unit after all. It's just not upgradable from Musketmen/Pikes and you will probably need to build them since you might not have too many scouts. +20 strength? Wow!

The default recon units can't match regular units and those +20 generally still left them behind. They are not field unit even with this promotion line, but some kind of silent hunter to slaughter ranged units from behind.

Of course, there's a second promotion line which don't make recon units combat-worthy, but upgrades their scouting skill to the max.
 
Which means there is an industrial era melee unit after all. It's just not upgradable from Musketmen/Pikes and you will probably need to build them since you might not have too many scouts. +20 strength? Wow!

Rangers have 1 range, unless they can have both melee and range attack (very unlikely), they are ranged units.
 
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