5BC Defiant Deity again

[Mumpulus]

I am back, so I can take it

First thought: I would take all but one Mayan town on our continent, let them refound some towns, then attack again. The flip risk is a pain, but it will take longer to really acquire our continent if we have to wait for other to ship over settlers.

Second thought: I won't take that much longer to wait for shipped settlers, and the flips could get really annoying.

What VC are we aiming for? I'd say conquest , but domination is fine too.

I'll try to play tomorrow afternoon, but can't promise for sure.

 

[Elephantium]

Speaking of new towns on our continent, Rome has already landed a settler. More of them can't be far behind.

 

[Own]

I'd kill off the Mayans. What's the point of filling up a conquered continent in a normal game? To stop the AIs from settling. If we want them to settle so we can take the towns, what's the problem? You do realize that we'd have to either stay at war or redeclare war periodically to take back flips and settled towns. What production could we get from those towns to offset the 30% lux we're running? Not enough, let's kill em. I'm tired of em hanging around.

I'd be willing to play on for conquest, but that should be up to whoever is up when we are pushing the mop.

America and just declared. No more horses, gems, or spices and I doubt we can hold them off well wihtout significant losses since they have cavs and soon rifles.

It's not over now but we'll need a few magic tricks for this one to work.

Im pretty sure this game is over without even playing the turn!

Plenty of these:

The Mayans declare war on us.

Mayans declare on us

boot order to Smokey

To:

Awesome that we're really down to mopping out the mayans

Looks like the game is in the barrel

What an amazing comeback. First SG for me ever that I've been able to do a before/ after of pessimistic and optimistic dialogue .

 

[Elephantium]

Keep in mind that we'll still need to be wary of flips even after the Mayans are off our continent, they have 5-6 cities on other islands.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Then we need to pack a load of artilleries, rambos and infantries to raze those SOB's

 

[Othniel]

I vote conquest. I want to wipe the dirt with these friggin' AI chumps. I'm not sure I've ever played a game with so many endless cycles of war with seemingly every AI civ.

Re the mayans, I think we should clear our island before signing peace with them. We might get a lesser deal because we won't have troops threating their metros, but why wreck the rep if it is indeed still intact. BTW, that's interesting that our rep is not ruined. It must be at least damaged because the Aztecs refused any gpt type deal with me, claiming that we had wronged them in the past.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Conquest too, here Dom could be a drag because of flips.

 

[Elephantium]

Othniel, could you clarify? How does an AI tell you that you've wronged them in the past?

Could our rep have been damaged with the Aztecs, but other AIs didn't care because they were at war with the Aztecs?

 

[Othniel]

Othniel, could you clarify? How does an AI tell you that you've wronged them in the past?

Ask an AI to accept a deal where you are including gpt stuff (true gpt, resources, luxes, etc) and in return the AI is giving you some kind of hard goods (maps, techs, etc). If your rep is busted, they'll respond with some kind of swan song about how they or another AI civ has been mistreated by you in past.

In this case...
I was attempting to do some kind of deal with Aztecs that involved giving them one of our lux resources. Their end of the bargain was only hard goods (techs or something). The Trade Advisor was saying the deal was not acceptable no matter how much gpt, etc. that I put on the table.

Regardless, I asked the Aztecs to accept the deal and they shot back with a message saying "We remember how you've treated us poorly in the past, blah blah blah." I've only ever gotten that message when I've had a damaged/ruined rep for some reason or another.

Could our rep have been damaged with the Aztecs, but other AIs didn't care because they were at war with the Aztecs?

I've considered that but I don't think so. AFAIK, the AI will only overlook your ruined rep if you have an MA with them against another civ. Just being at war with a common enemy doesn't cut it, at least I've never heard of that.

 

[Own]

Or if the domestic advisor says they would never accept such a deal. He says that in the following situations:
1. You're trying to get more gpt from them than they have
2. You're trying to give a city for something else not on peace talks (you can gift one though) or you're trying to give a city in peace talks and take something else from them
3. You're trying to take a city in peace but you're offering them something.
4. You're offering an alliance against a civ neither of you two are at war with
5. You're trading per turn for hard good stuff, trying to sign an alliance, RoP, etc with a busted rep

No matter how much stuff you throw on a "they would never accept such a deal" it's not going anywhere.

Our rep with the aztecs seemed to be ruined, but everyone elses relations seemed fine last I played

 

[Mumpulus]

One keeps running into amazing things during succession games... Tiwa is building a bank, but I distinctly remember building a bank myself there earlier. Who sold that bank and why? I don't remember seeing that in any turn log. I'm also pretty sure Nanking was size 12, and I don't see any mention of building a worker out of it or anything?

I hire engineers instead of taxmen where building temples.

IT
Antium: Bank > Artillery
Machew: Infantry > Infantry
Canton: Infantry > Infantry
Vilcas: Cavalry > Cavalry
Lugdunum: Artillery > Battlefield Medicine

A saltpeter source "moves" to Tazumel.

1) 1430AD
Kill 7 units in Palenque and capture it along with 134g. Leader can build an army.

An eCav dies on a 1hp infantry, then kill 4 units and capture Bonampak with 67g and Bach's.

Armies take care of 4 units in Yaxchilán and capture it with 143g.

Army kills single infantry in newly founded Piedras Negras and autorazes it for 71g.

There are no more Mayans on our continent. Ship over the new army and kill some Americans and Aztecs.

IT
Aztecs and English sign peace.

Cori: Stock Exchange > Library
BeornVegas: Infantry > Library
Uaxactún: Worker > Worker

2) 1435
I decide to make peace with the Mayans for what we can get now:
Zitlaltepec, Tequixquiac, New Quiriguá and New Calakmul and 750 of their 1046g.

I also make peace with the Aztecs, and they throw in Refining and Communism in return for Atomic Theory and 619g. A separate deal gets us silks and 41g in return for gems and spices.

Steam Power gets us Sanitation and 36g from the Romans.

We have 2 sources of oil, and the Romans have settled a third source on our continent.

I start research on Steel and turn research all the way up. I think we should reorient our economy a bit during peace-time to reduce tech costs, and start trading a bit again when we can. Steals will still come in handy when we are trying for war. I switch to scientists and some cities to libraries.

I disband all trebs and cannons toward temples. Rush some units.

IT
Palenque deposes us.

Machew: Library > University
T-Bone: Library > Cavalry
Cuello: Temple > Worker
Dzibil: Temple > Wealth
Nanking: Library > University
Ek Balam: Temple > Wealth
Tsingtao: Factory > Cavalry
New Quiriguá: Infantry > Temple
New Calakmul: Infantry > Temple
New Lazapa: Aqueduct > Wealth
New Kaminaljuyú: Temple > Wealth
New Piedras Negras: Temple > Wealth

3) 1440AD
Thanks to a concerted garrisoning effort, resistance has ended in all cities except in Yaxchilán, which will probably also depose us at some point.

Well look now: the Aztecs have researched Steel and it so happens we have to boot them. We have 7 turns to go on it with self-research.

266gpt gets us Steel. Booted and declared. I get started on combustion in 10 turns.

IT
Cori: Library > University
Canton: Library > Infantry
Vilcas: Cavalry > Infantry
Uaxactún: Worker > Wealth
Tulúm: Temple > Wealth
New Tikal: Temple > Aqueduct
Xcal: Temple > Wealth
BBQ Chicken Pizza: Temple > Wealth
Zitlaltepec: Temple > Infantry
Tequixquiac: Temple > Infantry
New Quiriguá: Temple > Walls
New Calakmul: Temple > Walls

4) 1445AD
Try to plant a spy with the Mayans, get caught, but no war.

IT
Tiwa: Bank > Cavalry
Ollan: Cavalry > Cavalry
BeornVegas: Library > University
Cuello: Worker > Wealth
Mayapán: Temple > Wealth
Tsingtao: Cavalry > Cavalry

5) 1450AD
I have to abandon Tequixquiac because an Aztec cavalry landed there and there's no defender yet.

Loose an eCav on an American infantry approaching Antium, but the next one gets us another leader. My RNG is still the best, because the very next eCav gives another MGL. I disband an army on Alpha to get another army on Beta.

IT
The Aztecs and Iroquois make peace, so all of a sudden, Artaxata is the target: 10 Aztecs die, 1 retreats, and 1 kills an infantry.

Chichén Itza: Temple > Wealth
Tikal: Temple > Galleon
Lugdunum: Galleon > Artillery
Nanking: University > Stock Exchange
Zitlaltepec: Infantry > Infantry
New Quirigá: Walls > Infantry

6) 1455AD
Our military advisor tells us the Aztecs have destroyers, so I switch back to cash.

IT
At Artaxata 3 Aztecs die, 2 retreat, and 1 kills an infantry. America signs in Rome against both us and the Mayans

Antium and Artaxata riot
Bonampak: Temple > Galleon
T-Bone: Cavalry > Cavalry
Canton: Infantry > Infantry
Vilcas: Infantry > Infantry
Tsingtao: Cavalry > Cavalry
New Calakmul: Walls > Wealth

7) 1460AD
Kill 2 rifles and capture Eboracum on our continent. Kill 4 units and autoraze Hippo Regius. Ship over some workers and we finally have a rail connection.

IT
At Artaxata 4 Aztecs die, 1 retreats, 1 kills a healthy elite infantry.

Cuzco: Cavalry > Cavalry
Tiwa: Cavalry > Cavalry
Machew: University > Infantry
Cori: University > Hospital
New Orleans: Artillery > Artillery

Yaxchilán deposes us, just when I had put some units in it to quell resistance

8) 1465AD
Capture Seleucia from about 8 units. It's going to take many more units to make fast progress on Beta...

IT
One cavalry retreats, other Aztecs move towards Seleucia.

Tsingtao: Cavalry > Cavalry
New Copán: Temple > Wealth
Artaxata: Civil Defense > Walls

9) 1470AD
Kill 4 units in Pisae and capture it.

264gpt gets us combustion from the Mayans. I try to plant a spy again, and fail again. I do an immediate steal and fail again. No war though. As soon as we can get an army over to the big island, we should just declare and get it over with...

IT
We loose a few exposed units.

Antium: Temple > Army
Machew: Infantry > Infantry
Lugdunum: Transport > Transport

Calakmul deposes us.

10) 1475AD
Electronics, Iron and 110gpt gets us flight from the Mayans. I declare myself because those flips are going to start to cost us. We can fly over units to the big island next turn. Recapture our continent once again.

WW is very high, so be careful with MM.

I have to run, so no pictures or anything, sorry...

> Save <

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Will take a better look at the save - a shame that we lost those towns. One thing I like to do for resistance is to leave an obsolete unit in it, alone, to slowly do the job.

I doubt Cori needs a hospital.

Btw, we have the IA ... why on earth would we want to buy a tech?

Oh and it is MUCH MUCH more cost-effective to rush a worker and airfiled him than to rush an airport.

 

[Mumpulus]

It'll take a few more turns to win this game, so I thought we could have a few of our core cities grow a bit more if there are useful tiles to grow into.

I bought techs because we didn't have cash at hand and because I expected to get out of the deals through war.

That airport was a stupid mistake...

 

[Own]

Btw, we have the IA ... why on earth would we want to buy a tech?

Mump first bought a tech from the aztecs then booted them, so we got our money back, then tried the same thing to the Mayans but they didn't declare at our failed spy. But then he did declare on Mayans, which kills our rep, but it's not a big deal, we just need 2 more techs for tanks and we don't even really need tanks.

Roster-
Own- on deck
BeF
Elephantium
Mumpulus- just played
Othniel- up

 

[Othniel]

Roster-
Own- on deck
BeF
Elephantium
Mumpulus- just played
Othniel- up

The roster's a little jumbled. I shouldn't be up because I played right before Tusker.

 

[Own]

Am I up then? Yeah I think so. I got it then.

 

[Own]

Pre-turn- Switch some wealths to temples, and some bean counters to construction workers. Tough call with the armies in Palenque and Yax. I
decide to move them out, since the Mayans won't take much longer, and the resistence can be quelled later. Take off lone SCI in Chicken Itza.
Seriously.

IBT- Guerilla kills an infantry on defense but succumbs to a second, and we lose some workers. Mayans on far away island approach a city.

1.

Builds-
Tikal transport > transport
BeornVegas uni > arty
T-Bone cav > cav
Vilcas transport > arty
Ake temple > wealth
Tsingtao cav > cav
New Quiriq airport > wealth

What, I can't airlift cav armies? Grrrr! Lose 2!! elite cavs to the same redlined guerilla on flatland. Then lose an infantry after bombardment redlines
his promotion HP. Then kill him with another infantry. Statistical improbability . Kill four cavs with rider army. Capture Veii after killing

3 rifles. Upgrade 2 galleons to transports. Kill some infs with cav army. Spend a good while moving workers around.

IBT- Well, my brother just came home from colleg and the only thing I remember is the Aztecs landing a bundle next to New Quirigua.

MOre to come tomorrow

 

[Mumpulus]

The cities on our continent were captured during my last turn, so there was no chance of them flipping on the first IBT.

 

[Own]

And the fourth isn't even finished. All those workers make these turns take a lot longer than they should.

2. Unload three cav armies on beta. With both the cav and rider armies set to heal next turn, we got a lot of destruction coming up. Ship a cav
army over to the aztec land to kill Coba. While killing some infs with elite infs, I get a leader. Make an army and I fill it with infantry for a a few
reasons: We have tons of spare infs to fill it with, unlike cavs. There is an elite* inf we can put in it. We need it for the defense of Veii. They're
really pretty.

IBT- Awful IBT... some destroyers come out of nowhere and kill 2 transports and a galleon next to Antium, and then 2 more are killed on the other side of the continent. I thought galleons would cover the transports... I guess not. Then on that little island, I had 2 vet infs, one fortified, and three cavs, one fortified, in a city that had walls. The first aztec inf attacks and kills one inf. The second redlines the next. Then their 2 cavs each kill a cav of ours. We're down to a redlined infantry over there. Uaxuctun flips.

3.
Builds-
Beijing "they're not saying 'boo' they're saying 'hoo-ver dam'" > bomber
Tiwa destroyer > bomber
BeornVegas arty > arty
Canton cruiser > cruiser
Tsingtao cav > bomber

Capture Ravenna, Nicopolis, and Neopolis, and apparently Rome has a settler somewhere. Darn. Pillage a source of Aztec rubber. Retake Uax,
defended only by a reg flak. Build an airfield in beta and ship an inf over to New Quirigua. I find the roman settler, and kill him. The romans have
another. I send some armies near St. Regis. Bombard and kill some. We need more units for killing.

IBT- The Aztec navy is ridiculous. A destroyed dies on our cruiser, but a second kills it, and then a galleon full of artilleries got killed. They come
out of nowhere. Some redlined cavs try to kill a 3 hp rider army in a city, but they all die.

4.
Builds-
Cuzco cav > cav
Machew inf > inf
Cori arty > arty
Vilcas arty > arty
Nanking cav > cav

Kill an inf in Coba. By the way, the Aztec navy is ridiculous. We can't transport anything without risking very expensive transports. So I've taken all cities off of cruisers and destroyers. Those expensive hunk a junks will go out, kill a destroyer, then get killed in the ibt. I've started building bombers. Raze St. Regis. Pick off a redlined destroyer with a destroyer of our own.

I'd finish my five, but I have to be somewhere at eleven and I won't be back to civ until tomorow, and I don't want to delay this anymore.

Handoff Note-
-Build more bombers, not navy. The Aztecs must not have flight. We'll give them the seas, but we're taking the air and ground. We'll airlift the bombers over to beta, who can pick off redlined units instead of risking precious transports by shipping over cavs. We should probably change most if not all current military builds to bombers. But we do need an inf here and there to airlift to that remote Mayan island to hold our air base. I'll leave that up to BeF.

As you may notice, the turn isn't close to being finished. :sorry:

Roster-
Own- just "played"
BeF- up
Elephantium- on deck I think
Mumpulus
Othniel

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

A neat trick with workers is stacking them up and fortifying them

Will read through, I'll have time for a good 10 this week-end, or 11 to round it off.