(6-39) Caravansary Changes (+Bank)

[pineappledan]

Current
Caravansary

200​

unlocked at Currency​

1 ​

When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output.​

Land Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +3 Gold​

+1 from Merchants.​

+1 and for every 3 desert, or tundra tile worked by city.​

Truffles +2 ​

Cotton +1/​

Furs +1/​

Flax +1/​

Bank
Unlocked at Banking
2
When you spend Gold to purchase Units or invest in Buildings in this City, 15% of the cost is converted into Science.
Caravansaries and Customs Houses in the City gain +3 Gold.
Nearby Gold: +3
Nearby Silver: +1 //
Nearby Gems: +2 , +1

Proposal:
1. Increase / per desert/tundra tile worked from 1 per 3 to 1 per 2
2. remove bonus to Merchants
3. change the relevant values on the Egyptian Burial Tomb to match

Reasoning:
The 1 per 3 tiles requirement is hard to achieve and hard to keep track of. The reward of 0.33 per tile is so small it doesn't feel material. If you work 5 tiles you still only get 1 /; the rounding down feels punishing on it.
The Currency tech already gives Merchants +1, so also having Caravansaries -- which unlock on Currency -- also give +1 to merchants seems redundant. Having the same bonus on the same tech in two separate places is bloat, and the Caravansary already does a lot of stuff.
If we want Merchants to have higher yields we should either increase the base yield of merchants to 5 or have Currency give them +2

 

[hokath]

hard agree on the 1g for 5tiles feeling awful

 

[stii]

This building already feels awful, I don't think it needs a nerf.

 

[Stalker0]

just remove it! (ducks)

hehe I have said for a long time that this building is hot garbage. If people are finally willing to jump on the bandwagon I am all for it.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Currently state of affairs:
Caravansary

200​

unlocked at Currency​

1 ​

When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output.​

Land Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +3 Gold​

+1 from Merchants.​

+1 for every 3 desert, or tundra tile worked by city.​

Truffles +2 ​

Cotton +1/​

Furs +1/​

Flax +1/​

Proposal:
1. Increase per desert/tundra tile worked from 1 per 3 to 1 per 2
2. remove bonus to Merchants
3. change the relevant values on the Egyptian Burial Tomb to match

Reasoning:
The 1 per 3 tiles requirement is hard to achieve and hard to keep track of. The reward of 0.33 per tile is so small it doesn't feel material. If you work 5 tiles you still only get 1 ; the rounding down feels punishing on it.
The Currency tech already gives Merchants +1, so also having Caravansaries -- which unlock on Currency -- also give +1 to merchants seems redundant. Having the same bonus on the same tech in two separate places is bloat, and the Caravansary already does a lot of stuff.
If we want Merchants to have higher yields we should either increase the base yield of merchants to 5 or have Currency give them +2

I feel similar. I always look for something useful in that building, and while it has ton of text and abilities inside, nothing seems to be really valueable. With this change I think harsher terrains will get more out of it. But what if you want to construct it on decent city not having desert nor tundra?

 

[pineappledan]

If you’re building caravansaries right now, it’s for the trade bonuses, which might mean you only need them in a handful of cities. The desert/tundra bonus is currently a non-factor, but with this change, the total Gold generated by desert/tundra will be more than 50% more than it is now. I think it should be enough that this building becomes a must-have in those terrains, like a harbor on coast.

The merchant bonus never felt like it helped fulfill a niche for the building. Meanwhile the desert/tundra bonus mirrors the terrain bonus on harbour, but isn’t strong enough to be niche-defining.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Can you add an iterator to the proposal? I need to note my vote on a paper not to forget it later

 

[Zuizgond]

I guess it also applies to the food bonus? not very clear

 

[pineappledan]

Yes, corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.
I edited the OP to add the food

 

[azum4roll]

If you’re building caravansaries right now, it’s for the trade bonuses, which might mean you only need them in a handful of cities. The desert/tundra bonus is currently a non-factor, but with this change, the total Gold generated by desert/tundra will be more than 50% more than it is now. I think it should be enough that this building becomes a must-have in those terrains, like a harbor on coast.

The merchant bonus never felt like it helped fulfill a niche for the building. Meanwhile the desert/tundra bonus mirrors the terrain bonus on harbour, but isn’t strong enough to be niche-defining.

You build caravansaries for the trade bonuses.
I build them for the further pressure spread.
We are not the same.

Memes aside, should Burial Tomb get more yields to compensate? Like 1 flat Food and Gold on desert/tundra?

 

[Zuizgond]

I also build them early for the extended spread pressure. I don't get why people think it's a garbage building and only needed in a few cities.

 

[gwennog]

A change would be interesting but more difficult to achieve (dll), would be to add desert + tundra before applying the 1 for 2 rule (To be applied for all 1/X terrains/features,...)

 

[azum4roll]

A change would be interesting but more difficult to achieve (dll), would be to add desert + tundra before applying the 1 for 2 rule (To be applied for all 1/X terrains/features,...)

It's planned to change all similar effects to use this method.

A more outrageous idea is to change every single yield to have 2 decimal digits. This could be VP5.0!

 

[Anarcomu]

A more outrageous idea is to change every single yield to have 2 decimal digits. This could be VP5.0!

Another idea is to double every yields in every aspect, making all those 1/2 bonuses easier to handle.
It would also permit them to show in the terrain itself, easing valuation of tiles :

• Caravansary's bonus to tiles would be visible, a +1 /, making easier to assess real tile value. Also applies to other 1/2 bonuses.
• Percent bonuses to rounded resources like culture and faith (which are integer) would round sooner, making those bonuses more interesting.

Edit : typo

 

[adan_eslavo]

A change would be interesting but more difficult to achieve (dll), would be to add desert + tundra before applying the 1 for 2 rule (To be applied for all 1/X terrains/features,...)

It's planned to change all similar effects to use this method.

A more outrageous idea is to change every single yield to have 2 decimal digits. This could be VP5.0!

Another idea is to double every yields by two in every aspect, making all those 1/2 bonuses easier to handle.
It would also permit them to show in the terrain itself, easing valuation of tiles :

• Caravansary's bonus to tiles would be visible, a +1 /, making easier to assess real tile value. Also applies to other 1/2 bonuses.
• Percent bonuses to rounded resources like culture and faith (which are integer) would round sooner, making those bonuses more interesting.

Oh, boy... We are after Great Merge. Road to 5.0 is a long way, but I personally don't think it is needed.


BTW, @pineappledan 6-47 number is free. 6-45 was used by @ma_kuh.

 

[azum4roll]

should Burial Tomb get more yields to compensate? Like 1 flat Food and Gold on desert/tundra?

So, what about this? Should I make a counterproposal just for this?

 

[pineappledan]

I sponsor this.

 

[Hinin]

MAGI - Edited title for clarity with counterproposals

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.