(7-08-2) Change Moai Yields From Tech

[azum4roll]

Direct conflict with:

(7-25) Carthage UA/UNW Reworks

Counterproposal to this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/7-30-polynesia-ua-and-carthage-ua-ub-rework.688923/ Rationale: Carthage has been doing poorly in test games, and are appear to be in need of some buffs. I diagnose the problem as being that they have basically nothing except 2...

forums.civfanatics.com

(7-08a) Polynesia Adjustments

Counterproposal to (7-30) Polynesia UA and Carthage UA+UB rework Also conflicts with proposals (7-30a) Carthage and Polynesia UA reworks and (7-08b/7-30d) Polynesia/Shoshone/Huns changes. Related to (7-30c) Polynesia UA changes (...and Carthage), (7-08) Maori Warrior rework and (7-08a) Maori...

forums.civfanatics.com

Splitting off from the other counterproposal. This one is compatible with all other Polynesia proposals.

Current Moai yields:
Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai
Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
Flight: +1

Proposed Moai yields:
Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai
Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
Archaeology: +1
Refrigeration: +1

Rationale:
Flight is at the bottom part of the tech tree, which does require Architecture but needs lots of bottom techs to reach. It also gives an irrelevant Gold yield and is way less desirable than Radio, a key tech for CV.
Archaeology is an important CV tech, and Refrigeration is directly after Radio, so they should be more fitting as boost techs.
The boost becomes Production and Tourism to directly help with building cultural buildings and winning CV.

 

[Stalker0]

This one looks simple and solid

 

[Tekamthi]

Would you consider doing something for ocean transit? I'm guessing my moai stuff won't get into next phase, but say we had a flat double ocean move on embarked melee, worker, settler unlocked at sailing -- right now settling really distant islands is mostly a human play, but it IS the way poly becomes competitive on its existing kit.

If we can get something like this ^^ into one of the poly yield-upgrade proposals, I think we'll be in good shape finally with this civ.

 

[azum4roll]

But my Maori Warriors CAN island hop...

There's no need to have normal units move better in oceans - they're already the only ones that can go into ocean in the early game.

 

[Tekamthi]

avg transit time between well-placed poly cities is at least 2x the typical civ. A limited double move in ocean supports the existing UA which promotes melee, settlers, and workers all heading off to far off islands, and maybe knocks the transit time between poly's (good) cities to somewhere closer to the norm, 1.5x etc.

 

[azum4roll]

I don't know why you want melee to move faster, when you need ships and ranged units to defend your islands.

 

[Tekamthi]

I don't know why you want melee to move faster, when you need ships and ranged units to defend your islands.

something is better than nothing. UU-only is too little. My own proposal applies to melee, gun, archer, worker, settler, plus select GP, so I do very much want it on others (i should've said melee & gun above, forgot the latter), but still would be nice with just the bare bones minimum that gets them moving around a little better where they are doing the things critical to their success.

Melee are at the core of the poly UA -- the fishing boat stuff is huge in getting established & you spend a full era+ defending cities from only barbs so melee is ideal (or MUC koa but tbh it needs nerf). To be competitive in human hands at the higher difficulties, poly has to settle all the premium ocean spots, its UA is designed to facilitate this, but outside of maori warrior the units are not. On recent game with no transit buff, I had 2 separate colony groups, 5-6 cities each, 26 turns apart. All my yields were taken care of this way (had a few NW in there) -- but losing units for 26 turns transit time is absurd gameplay, when i needed to shift power back and forth to meet various threats etc. Ultimately I mostly played as 2 separate civs, rarely sending any forces between the two ie my supply was effectively halved and no wonder poly is trash. Game ended in industrial as I finally lost one colony group and abandonned.

 

[azum4roll]

I think the current (proposed) kit is fine. They get their benefits from settling good island spots, but have to balance the risk and don't settle too far away from the main cities.

I had 2 separate colony groups, 26 turns apart.

26 turns apart won't even be a thing on standard sized maps. And no speed bonus is going to save you from that distance anyway (outside of airlifts).
This shouldn't be encouraged.

 

[Tekamthi]

13 turns is manageable, if they had full double-move. More realistically we're probably talking reducing it to 15 turns or so in that case, still long, yes, but now we're only 5 turns longer than a peace treaty. It was a particularly large map, and the problem magnified, but I still expect much longer transit times as poly than other civs on standard size.

Anyway here we have a step in right direction with yields etc. The proposal doesn't need more necessarily, but poly does. This transit stuff could equally be put up as its own counter- if anyone else comes along and wants to throw their own bid up before things close....

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.