[Vote] (7-22) Allow Non-Recon Units to Pick Up Ancient Ruins

[Hawawaa]

Sure I'm fine with that.

 

[Chinag]

I do agree that the current iteration is too binary.

Is it possible to make it so that Recon line can instantly pickup Ancient Ruins, but other Military Units have to "excavate" them like Archeologists? Even just a one-turn digging action would be a clear slowdown of goodie looting compared to Recons.

 

[L. Vern]

I'll sponsor

 

[dostillevi]

Broadly, I say we should build the game we want and let the players come, regardless of what they might expect. Is this worth changing though? Hard to say…

 

[caudheur]

I like it the way it is currently, as it makes an otherwise pretty weak choice in the build order more interesting.
Also using your non-recon units to stand on ruins does not feel gamey to me, it's like they are guarding the site waiting for recon unit to start tomb raiding
(and it's actually an interesting trade-off because it's a unit you won't be able to send to clear early barbs or to explore the map)

 

[Tekamthi]

I voted against this as it just flattens the ruin play -- this recon only version IS a little weird but the search for ruins seems to last a little longer this way, and when all units can do it is usually over by like turn 5.

I think what we should explore next round is only letting recon reveal the ruins -- I don't know if the engine allows this but if you could only see them when in view of recon it will give it a more natural vibe to the player and eliminate the perplexing "why can't my warrior pick up this thing I can see like in vanilla" effect

 

[azum4roll]

I think what we should explore next round is only letting recon reveal the ruins -- I don't know if the engine allows this but if you could only see them when in view of recon it will give it a more natural vibe to the player and eliminate the perplexing "why can't my warrior pick up this thing I can see like in vanilla" effect

Then you start asking if CS units can move onto these invisible ruins.
If yes, they can stay there and block everyone from getting the ruins.
If no, humans can guess where they are without using recon. And those tiles will be guarded by barbarians instead, which makes it equally hard to get to (good luck killing the barbarian when CS units surround it).

 

[Tekamthi]

Then you start asking if CS units can move onto these invisible ruins.
If yes, they can stay there and block everyone from getting the ruins.
If no, humans can guess where they are without using recon. And those tiles will be guarded by barbarians instead, which makes it equally hard to get to (good luck killing the barbarian when CS units surround it).

I dunno... I won't mind this. Its like an impromptu extra CS quest: "Antwerp wants you to kill their unit at x"

 

[azum4roll]

"Antwerp wants you to kill their unit at x"

And they're going to actively block you from doing so, at the same time.

 

[Tekamthi]

as it stands the default ignore terrain recon can swoop through just about any occupied tile anyway. Blocking ruins only seems to be possible when i play with a no ignore mod.

 

[azum4roll]

as it stands the default ignore terrain recon can swoop through just about any occupied tile anyway. Blocking ruins only seems to be possible when i play with a no ignore mod.

You need to have vision of a tile on the other end and have enough moves to reach there. At 2-3 layers deep even recon units will have problems passing through.

 

[varis78]

What if claiming ruins took an action like pillaging a tile, thus the recon unit would have to actually stop on top the tile in order to claim it rather than simply pass through the tile?. That way you can guard a ruin with your warrior, but you'll still need to get your own recon unit over there to finally get the loot.

I will also add that if the recon-only restriction does get lifted straight-up, then Maya's Holken unit would probably need a rebalance to compensate for the fact that a lot fewer ancient ruins will be available for them to find if any unit can grab them.

 

[azum4roll]

We shouldn't encourage guarding ruins with other units.

 

[Pipiskus]

I think that this restriction promotes competition and therefore a good design choice, yeah, it can be annoying at times but this way ruins mechanic stays valid throughout the whole game not just at the start. The feelings you get discovering ruins on other landmasses could not outdo anything, it feels so rewarding

 

[Better Buff Turtle ship]

What if claiming ruins took an action like pillaging a tile, thus the recon unit would have to actually stop on top the tile in order to claim it rather than simply pass through the tile?. That way you can guard a ruin with your warrior, but you'll still need to get your own recon unit over there to finally get the loot.

I will also add that if the recon-only restriction does get lifted straight-up, then Maya's Holken unit would probably need a rebalance to compensate for the fact that a lot fewer ancient ruins will be available for them to find if any unit can grab them.

Holkan is the area of modmod

 

[ma_kuh]

I'm still convinced that the better way to ensure more ruins throughout the game is to just spawn more ruins, like barbarian camps. I haven't thought about it more than that, but artifically delaying the "end of ruins" by limiting them to recon just feels silly, and AI runs around with 3 recon for free anyway so no, I don't find there's any more than usual, I just can't always pick up the ones I find now.

 

[rkkn]

I'm still convinced that the better way to ensure more ruins throughout the game is to just spawn more ruins, like barbarian camps. I haven't thought about it more than that, but artifically delaying the "end of ruins" by limiting them to recon just feels silly, and AI runs around with 3 recon for free anyway so no, I don't find there's any more than usual, I just can't always pick up the ones I find now.

I like the way Endless Legend does ruins. Ruins don't go away when you search them. They just deactivate for your faction. Others can still search them and get loot, though the odds of it being a dud seem to go up when it's already been searched before. So anyway, even late into the game after you cross the ocean to the other (inhabited!) continent, you can be scouting out the opposition's territory and still searching ruins. They are also used as points of interest in a few quests. And there's a mid-lategame tech that reactivates them so that you can search them again. All this does have a significant downside though: Ruins are permanent features that you can't build on.

Having ruins spawn like barbarian camps is an interesting idea... kinda weird though. Since that's kinda the antithesis of what a ruin is. A ruin is something ancient. A new one can't just pop up. Perhaps you can uncover one, but that's essentially what the archeology system is.

 

[CppMaster]

We shouldn't encourage guarding ruins with other units.

Why not?