[Database] (7-NS) Mechanized infantry rework + infantry not obsolete

[Yngwie]

Problem:
in lategame the required resource for Planes changed from Oil to Aluminum.
More than that, old planes not obsolete and therefore a player could allow double quantity of planes (since planes don't use supply)
To compensate this situation some Units should consume excess Oil

Proposal:

Mechanized infantry require Oil
Lose DFPs promotion, but gain Armor plating promotion

Infantry not obsolete


Rationale:
Mech infantry use vehicles with guns - so they are closer to tanks. Tanks require Oil, so do Mechanized Infantry
DFPs means pedestrian Units - Mech Infantry not pedestrian - therefore no DFPs. Instead they gain Armor plating, because now they protection is definitely better.

 

[Stalker0]

If I want oil using tank like units in the late game..,I’ll make tanks. There is absolutely no reason for this

 

[Tekamthi]

Oil's importance is under represented in the game -- probably every unit and building in later eras should require it, if we're going for some kind of realism.

I think there'd be interest in a modmod that rebalances the resource requirements to be more realistic, maybe adds some intermediate resources. But as a proposal re assigning existing resources, I'm less excited personally

 

[Rekk]

Rationale:
Mech infantry use vehicles with guns - so they are closer to tanks. Tanks require Oil, so do Mechanized Infantry
DFPs means pedestrian Units - Mech Infantry not pedestrian - therefore no DFPs. Instead they gain Armor plating, because now they protection is definitely better.

So the reason for this balance change is ... for theme?

 

[Stalker0]

Oil's importance is under represented in the game -- probably every unit and building in later eras should require it, if we're going for some kind of realism.

If you think oil isn't important you aren't building enough tanks and planes

There is a big difference on the battlefield between someone with 5 tanks or someone with just 5 infantry

 

[Tekamthi]

If you think oil isn't important you aren't building enough tanks and planes

Its still just not important enough to align with reality. What can be done in the modern world without a little gasoline or diesel?

I'd love to see a modmod especially balanced for VP that adds intermediate resources, like gasoline or diesel, industrial steel, small arms etc. Tbh I think it could be all done in database, all we need is some savant that can come up with a balanced vision that won't require forever tweaking

 

[ma_kuh]

Everything requires some variation of iron as well, but not every unit has it as a build requirement. I think in one of the previous threads the analogy went: when you first discover something, it's novel, so it's a strategic resource requirement for some units/buildings, but as the eras progress it becomes so ubiquitous that you can ignore its requirements for most units, reserving the resource requirement for strategically interesting (i.e. gamey) reasons on specific units.

 

[Stalker0]

Its still just not important enough to align with reality.

Lets be clear, NOTHING in Civ5 combat aligns with reality. This is a game where a range promotion archer can shoot as far as a modern artillery piece. This is a game where tanks with cannon on them can't shoot as far as a c. longbow. This is a game my unit can lose 90% of its forces, but can recover to full in the middle of enemy territory if given some time. A medic promotion can repair naval ships, tanks, and planes just as well as restoring people. This is a game where rubber isn't a strategic resource even though in WWI before synthetic rubber was invented it was a big deal that battles were fought over.

Trying to get Civ 5 to align with reality just leads to madness. Oil gets fairly represented as a strategic resource, its a limited resource in the game that gives you extra powerful units compared to those that have it. The game acknowledges the importance of oil without completely upending its combat model to do it.

 

[Tekamthi]

Of course. I'm just saying there's room for modmod that tries to improve on this stuff. Civ 5 is all an abstraction but VP itself is proof that the abstractions can be improved upon.

 

[Stalker0]

Of course. I'm just saying there's room for modmod that tries to improve on this stuff. Civ 5 is all an abstraction but VP itself is proof that the abstractions can be improved upon.

and if we were talking about a modmod here, I would say "cool, lets see what it looks like".

As a change to the core mod....heck no!

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.