(8-41) 4UC Sweden
This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Swedish civilization.
forums.civfanatics.com
![Citizen :c5citizen: :c5citizen:](/images/smilies/civ5/citizen.png)
![Greatperson :c5greatperson: :c5greatperson:](/images/smilies/civ5/greatperson.png)
First the UA Change all the other counterproposals have adopted.
Units earn 2 XP and heal 10 HP whenever a Great Person is born.
Replaces bonus on Great General birth.
I had hoped we could do a little pick-and-mix, but counterproposals have to be complete so I'm importing this change.
Sweden has, to my mind, the worst UB. The Skola, which means Public School, replaces the Public School. It has 1 less maintenance and gives 3x more science per citizen than the Public School. It also gives culture per 2 citizens. This is just a stat stick. The only interaction you can have with it is to generate a large population. However as a warmonger you are probably going to have some puppet cities, some underdeveloped cities, etc. and generally happiness will be a limiting factor. So while Science is good for a warmonger, the way you get it is a sort of anti-synergy.
Of course there is also the fact that IRL Sweden is not exactly on the same level as India and China in terms of food bonuses.
There are more people in Greater London.
Now the new UB to be added is the Bastu. We had a long conversation on the discord with our resident Swedish Nationalist about how this is a great addition and definitely not Russian. However from a gameplay perspective it's kind of all over the place with the bonuses. The idea is clearly food and birth yields to get more pop so there is this interaction with the Skola. But Food on Golden Age? Strange angle. Lakes and Tundra give science... ok Sweden has lakes and "tundra" IRL, but in-game even lake-friendly map types are quite random for number of take tiles and Sweden has no Tundra bias. It's not a good idea to have UB power like this, it will lead to too much variance. Finally you now you have 5 different bonuses on this building; too much for me, especially with it being Classical Era.
Spoiler Current UBs proposed :
UB1 - Skola (replaces Public School):
Available at Scientific Theory
800
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
4
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
+3
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
+3
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Citizen :c5citizen: :c5citizen:](/images/smilies/civ5/citizen.png)
-1
![Unhappy :c5unhappy: :c5unhappy:](/images/smilies/civ5/unhappy.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
UB2 - Bastu (replaces Baths):
Available at Metal Casting
200
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
1
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
no terrain requirements
+3
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Food :c5food: :c5food:](/images/smilies/civ5/food.png)
+1
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
+10%
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Food :c5food: :c5food:](/images/smilies/civ5/food.png)
![Goldenage :c5goldenage: :c5goldenage:](/images/smilies/civ5/goldenage.png)
+1
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
+1
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
15% of
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
I think I would much prefer UBs that integrate more with the UA and warmonger playstyle, yet still keeping the science/culture economic yields from a developed nation -- in comparison to yields on e.g. pillage, conquer, or kill that other warmongers tend to get.
The idea is to have yields for consuming Great People. The currently existing examples are Wonders (Pyramids and University of Sankore) so putting this mechanic on a UB is already unique. The incentive to fight and get Great Generals now synergises when you consume them for Citadels, creating a link between the UBs and the UA. We also
Add a Tundra Bias
to (a) allow the Bastu tile bonus to be more reliable, (b) give you a more defensible start (no one starts at a more extreme latitude) and (c) to be more true to real life (bit weird when Sweden starts in a desert imo)
First the Bastu. This comes earliest and composes most of the Civs Unique elements for a while since it's a late boomer with the other UCs. Bold to highlight changes from the previous draft (in the spoiler).
UB2 - Bastu (replaces Baths):
Available at Metal Casting
200
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
1
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
no terrain requirements
+3
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Food :c5food: :c5food:](/images/smilies/civ5/food.png)
+1
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
+10%
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Food :c5food: :c5food:](/images/smilies/civ5/food.png)
![Goldenage :c5goldenage: :c5goldenage:](/images/smilies/civ5/goldenage.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
+1
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
+8
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Greatperson :c5greatperson: :c5greatperson:](/images/smilies/civ5/greatperson.png)
The +3 food helps you run your early specialist slot to get the ball rolling.
The Tundra bias ensures the bonus the tile bonus will reliably get used.
The culture is the key point. Is the value correct? The general value for a Wonder is +50, so this equals at 5 cities. Of course the UB does other things, but I could see the number being higher. Note since it's been our favourite topic recently: the culture will (presumably?) contribute to border expansion for your authority pick.
Second the Skola replacement. I want to take inspiration from the old UA and reference the strong soft-power of the Swedish Academy's Nobel Prize. As one of a number of components, I feel this inclusion is fine -- the civ does not `revolve around Alfred Nobel' as many people don't like in other iterations of Sweden. Still, as a scientist I can say the influence of the Prize is not to be understated to Swedish arts, science, and soft power in general. So bold as changes from the base building,
UB1 (UNW) - Nobel Committee (replaces Foreign Bureau):
Available at Dynamite (2 tiers before Radio)
Requires the Imperial College in the City
+5
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
+50
![Gold :c5gold: :c5gold:](/images/smilies/civ5/gold.png)
![Greatperson :c5greatperson: :c5greatperson:](/images/smilies/civ5/greatperson.png)
![Influence :c5influence: :c5influence:](/images/smilies/civ5/influence.png)
![Citystate :c5citystate: :c5citystate:](/images/smilies/civ5/citystate.png)
+2
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
![Greatwork :greatwork: :greatwork:](/images/smilies/civ5/greatwork.png)
+3
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
+3
![Culture :c5culture: :c5culture:](/images/smilies/civ5/culture.png)
![Science :c5science: :c5science:](/images/smilies/civ5/science.png)
Edit: It was pointed out all UNW have a global building buff -- it's like Skola never left
![Stick Out Tongue :p :p](/data/assets/smilies/tongue.gif)
+1 Paper.
+20%
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
All Diplomatic Units receive the Diplomatic Immunity Promotion.
The [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production Cost and [ICON_CITIZEN] Population Requirements increase based on the number of Cities you own.
Coming earlier and not needing a Wire Service (1 tier later) means this comes closer to where the Skola was, and doesn't require you to invest in diplomatic infrastructure if you don't want to, yet still gets you a base amount of influence with city states (UN is 25 influence, so this is lower) to get you yields. The gold boost is also meant to be victory-condition agnostic, giving you a flexible boost you can use to purchase military or diplomats, invest in buildings, etc. The bonuses to Great Works and Academies reward your great person production, but also for warmongering and taking them from your enemies.
Here is my attempt at the icon,
-----------------
Since all proposals must be complete, I cannot rely on someone else to fix the obvious Hakkapeliitta problem -- namely that they get a bonus from kills, but the Carolean also gets a bonus from kills. Since they are contemporary units this creates a competition for the killing blow which is unfun.
Spoiler base proposal :
UM - Hakkapeliitta (replaces Lancer):
available at Metallurgy
350
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
requires Horses
37
![Strength :c5strength: :c5strength:](/images/smilies/civ5/strength.png)
5
![Moves :c5moves: :c5moves:](/images/smilies/civ5/moves.png)
No Movement to Pillage
+1 Sight
Hakkaa Päälle! (+20% vs wounded Units, heals 30 HP from killing Units)
Following @Flamingcheesepie we will reimagine the unit as a Cuirassier replacement that supports the Carolean.
UM - Hakkapeliitta (replaces Cuirassier):
available at Metallurgy
350
![Production :c5production: :c5production:](/images/smilies/civ5/production.png)
requires Horses
28 (+1)
![Strength :c5strength: :c5strength:](/images/smilies/civ5/strength.png)
![Rangedstrength :c5rangedstrength: :c5rangedstrength:](/images/smilies/civ5/rangedstrength.png)
5
![Moves :c5moves: :c5moves:](/images/smilies/civ5/moves.png)
Skirmisher Doctrine
Can move after attacking
[The 4 skirmisher line penalties]
+1 Sight
Hakkaa Päälle! (+25% CS attacking units at full health)
The idea is you find the enemy with your improved sight and then launch a full attack softening each one up. Then the Caroleans come in, maybe even on the next turn after another wave, and mass AoE them down with their on-kill effect. Comments on this welcome.
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