8 Civs. Is that enough? More to come?

[Lord Shadow]

Oh come on, I am willing to bet that the first expansion will be about alien factions. Does anyone actually believe this won't be the case?

I very much doubt that'll be the case. For starters, the devs (Will Miller in particular) have said Beyond Earth, and Civilization in general, is very much about the story of humanity. In addition, alien factions would have to be completely different from human ones, from cities to buildings to units. And they wouldn't really be compatible with the Affinities system, possibly not even Virtues.

Overall, they don't fit. Just slapping on aliens which are functionally 95% the same as humans would be cheap and frankly terrible. And giving their implementation the depth it deserves would require even more than a full expansion.

 

[SupremacyKing]

Oh come on, I am willing to bet that the first expansion will be about alien factions. Does anyone actually believe this won't be the case?

No, I don't think BE will have any expansions with alien factions. I think the expansions will follow the same pattern as civ5, and add more content and new features that the devs wanted to add but did not have time to fully flesh out. I think we will see ocean cities, perhaps a primitive form of terraforming, definitely more sponsors to pick from, perhaps a 4th affinity. perhaps more virtues, definitely new units, new wonders and new techs, etc...

 

[Westwall]

I guessing we're only kicking off with 8 sponsors because a lot went into customizing each leader with their 3 possible Affinity designs and the way they evolve over the course of a game.

 

[Sherlock]

I'm thinking of waiting till the first expansion pack.

Heck, I just bought Starcraft 2 this afternoon. I think it should be pretty polished by now.

 

[mrjepson]

For more people on a larger map couldn't a sponsor just send more than one expedition? I guess the leaders would look the same but they would likely have different seeding characteristics.

 

[CaptainPatch]

In Civ BE the only reason to Add a sponsor is if there is an interesting idea for a UA

This is, I think, one of the shortcomings of the entire Civ series: That a civ MUST have something uniquely it's own in order to qualify for a starting position.

Civ is nominally based on History. It IS an abstract mechanic that is required to cover a span of 6,000 years or so. But during that time span, there were many, many empires that only really differed by which language they used. When it comes right down to it, just how different were the French, Spanish, and English empires from one another? If you wanted to have contrast, you would have to contrast distant empires. Like comparing the English empire with the Mayan empire with the Chinese empire. Next door neighbors tended to be quite a bit alike. So whatever empire is chosen, there would have been serious competitors that were for all intents and purposes, practically clones. In game terms, identical UAs and UUs. The fact that they are identical doesn't make them any less of a serious opponent.

 

[swordoflight86]

There will be the obvious alien civs in the first expansion!

Please no, the alien civs in SMAX were way OP.

 

[Liex]

This is, I think, one of the shortcomings of the entire Civ series: That a civ MUST have something uniquely it's own in order to qualify for a starting position.

Civ is nominally based on History. It IS an abstract mechanic that is required to cover a span of 6,000 years or so. But during that time span, there were many, many empires that only really differed by which language they used. When it comes right down to it, just how different were the French, Spanish, and English empires from one another? If you wanted to have contrast, you would have to contrast distant empires. Like comparing the English empire with the Mayan empire with the Chinese empire. Next door neighbors tended to be quite a bit alike. So whatever empire is chosen, there would have been serious competitors that were for all intents and purposes, practically clones. In game terms, identical UAs and UUs. The fact that they are identical doesn't make them any less of a serious opponent.

But aren't Civ V's England, France and Spain completely distinct from each other? Surely they have a lot in common (they're European, Christian, established their overseas empire etc.), but their difference in gameplay reflects their historical differences, and that means they are unique enough.

 

[CaptainPatch]

But aren't Civ V's England, France and Spain completely distinct from each other? Surely they have a lot in common (they're European, Christian, established their overseas empire etc.), but their difference in gameplay reflects their historical differences, and that means they are unique enough.

My point exactly. Using historical modeling, each of them should have near-identical abilities and units. The game design awards unique abilities that were, in fact, not really all that unique. But despite their many similarities, they were usually the fiercest of competitors. Things that were unique tended to stop being so rather quickly. Either they were emulated by the others, or else the unique thing was abandoned for a more modern replacement.

 

[Deggial]

The problem is: With BE's seeding mechanic, sponsors have way less impact on gameplay than Civ5's civilizations. It is way harder to justify all the work that is necessary to create them (with three affinity-outfits to be modeled they are even more work than Civ5's leaders. At least there is no background necessary).
It all boils down to - more or less - some more visual variety. Which is, don't get me wrong, an important part of the game experience and I too would like some different characters to meet. But I don't expect them to feel much different when playing as them.

 

[dashwinner]

My point exactly. Using historical modeling, each of them should have near-identical abilities and units. The game design awards unique abilities that were, in fact, not really all that unique. But despite their many similarities, they were usually the fiercest of competitors. Things that were unique tended to stop being so rather quickly. Either they were emulated by the others, or else the unique thing was abandoned for a more modern replacement.

but it was precisely those unique things, and the period of time in which they were relevant, which gave an advantage to said country/civ. Just like in the game, it was up to each civ to take maximum advantage of that particular uniqueness during its relevant and limited period.

 

[cazaderon]

I'd expect expansions more in the spirits of Civ IV. And alien factions i really dont expect considering the seeding mecanics and the victory conditions that are very tight to human condition and history.

 

[Civ'ed]

RE: Aliens, I'm going to give the answer you get if you suggest anything: Mod it in. A game called, say, Alpha Centauri has the possibility for aliens, because it's a planet not Earth. Beyond Earth directly implies Earth is involved and aliens just don't work.
as for if it's enough - Colonization has anywhere from four (civ IV col vanilla) to 6 (freecol) civs, with a bunch of "stations" and "alien nests" (i.e. native americans) scattered across the map. it really is enough.

 

[Krajzen]

For some reason, even though I love Really Many Civs, I have no problem with 8 factions in BE. Come on, this is colonization of alien planet, not 22 civs tourist invasion I would definitely see some kind of Latin America, Anglo-Germanic nations and Islamic faction though.

 

[Deggial]

... Come on, this is colonization of alien planet, not 22 civs tourist invasion

True.
But the main issue is not the one, single game you play. The issue is replayability and the 10th, 20th,... 100th game. The same 8 factions, the same 8 faces being seen again and again might feel just a teeny tiny bit repetitive after a while...

 

[Civ'ed]

True.
But the main issue is not the one, single game you play. The issue is replayability and the 10th, 20th,... 100th game. The same 8 factions, the same 8 faces being seen again and again might feel just a teeny tiny bit repetitive after a while...

to be fair I could write a page on how fed up I am with the predictability of Civ V civs, but eh
in the end there is no limit to the amount of civs that get annoying.

 

[Lucius_]

True.
But the main issue is not the one, single game you play. The issue is replayability and the 10th, 20th,... 100th game. The same 8 factions, the same 8 faces being seen again and again might feel just a teeny tiny bit repetitive after a while...

Yep exactly, it's not like you will have 20+ civs on the same map. (the tourist comment made me though) More than 8 would just mean more variety between games. I'd really like to see 16 or 24 at some point, though I doubt we'll ever see that many.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yep exactly, it's not like you will have 20+ civs on the same map. (the tourist comment made me though) More than 8 would just mean more variety between games. I'd really like to see 16 or 24 at some point, though I doubt we'll ever see that many.

16 is the Most I would want... if they add more, they start making the game worse.

 

[Manannan]

16 is the Most I would want... if they add more, they start making the game worse.

This. Maybe they prove me wrong and do an awesome job of keeping things balanced, but even adding, say, 4 more civs to the game I think you'd start to see power creep setting in. I'm not even talking CiV "BNW Poland vs vanilla Germany or Japan" obvious out of control power creep, I mean just early warning signs "wow, Babylon DLC is kinda better than everything in the base game" power creep we've seen in the past.

 

[Lucius_]

This. Maybe they prove me wrong and do an awesome job of keeping things balanced, but even adding, say, 4 more civs to the game I think you'd start to see power creep setting in. I'm not even talking CiV "BNW Poland vs vanilla Germany or Japan" obvious out of control power creep, I mean just early warning signs "wow, Babylon DLC is kinda better than everything in the base game" power creep we've seen in the past.

This might be true, especially if you look at the current civ's abilities...

Spy
Satellites
Science/culture synergy
Wonder/worker
Food
Military
Trade routes
Expansion

Each civ's UA covers a separate portion of the game with no real overlap. There could be room for a straight production oriented civ and a strictly naval oriented civ. Beyond that, there would need entirely new systems added (religion) to justify new civs without overlapping with the current civ abilities, which they obviously took care in avoiding. I can still dream though.