Am I the only one feeling like the Civ count is getting in the way of replayability?

[Sagax]

Its not available to buy separately, so it doesn't count. Look pal, I am sick of arguing with you. Pointless exercise with people like you.

It will be, though? It’s not something secretive and technically not yet revealed, the second DLC pack, its composition, and distribution model are all public knowledge (except for the exact Civ/leader names - those are leaks).

If your argument is that we cannot be 100% certain that the second DLC will cost as much as Crossroads, then I guess it’s fair. But I don’t think anyone was trying to die on this hill, rather it’s just a fairly safe guess to use for current speculations. If that ends up being not the case, then that will be a topic of its own.

 

[Smegger213]

It will be, though? It’s not something secretive and technically not yet revealed, the second DLC pack, its composition, and distribution model are all public knowledge (except for the exact Civ/leader names - those are leaks).

If your argument is that we cannot be 100% certain that the second DLC will cost as much as Crossroads, then I guess it’s fair. But I don’t think anyone was trying to die on this hill, rather it’s just a fairly safe guess to use for current speculations. If that ends up being not the case, then that will be a topic of its own.

That's not the sort of thing that I am on about. What I am saying is, we don't know what future DLC there will be and we certainly don't know the prices of any future dlc. So, its pointless speculating until any dlc is announced. The pack you mention is not for sale yet, so we don't even truly know what the price of that will be either.

 

[stealth_nsk]

That's not the sort of thing that I am on about. What I am saying is, we don't know what future DLC there will be and we certainly don't know the prices of any future dlc. So, its pointless speculating until any dlc is announced. The pack you mention is not for sale yet, so we don't even truly know what the price of that will be either.

It adds $30 to the price of Founders edition, compared to Deluxe edition, similar to how Crossroads add $30 to the price of base version in deluxe. We could be 95% sure it will cost the same and no number of personal attacks or word play will change it.

 

[Thormodr]

I think they were relying on the leaders and Civs being thrown in a blender to keep things fresh. A cucumber plus passion fruit smoothie = Confucious leading the Egyptians? *Ugh* Lol.

That is one thing I really have enjoyed about Ara:History Unfold. About 40 different Civs at launch. Some were admittedly a little bland but they are focusing more on greater differentiation.

 

[Menocchio]

The Antiquity diversity is something perhaps more easily rectified with the game as it works now, since at most you will see 3-4 other civs, with the rest invisible on the opposite side of the 2D planet. With that in mind, I think the arrival of Silla and Assyria in the unforeseeable future will make Antiquity feel sufficiently diverse. The issue of leaders seeming to pop up repeatedly makes me scratch my head though: I have seen Confucius exactly once, and Ashoka nearly every time. It almost makes me wish that the developers would add some kind of weighting to the random AI leaders/civs to favour ones that haven't appeared in your games recently. Sometimes artificial randomness feels more "random" than if it weren't touched up.

 

[Siptah]

It almost makes me wish that the developers would add some kind of weighting to the random AI leaders/civs to favour ones that haven't appeared in your games recently. Sometimes artificial randomness feels more "random" than if it weren't touched up.

+1. I've seen Tubman and Xerxes (well, he is twice in the list) in nearly all games, and Isabella and Rev. Napoleon only once. In 13 games. I know true randomness can feel pretty strange to humans, but I think it would be nice to have some weights for who appeared previously. Similarly, I think civ VI had a weight for the player when choosing random?

 

[queenpea]

+1. I've seen Tubman and Xerxes (well, he is twice in the list) in nearly all games, and Isabella and Rev. Napoleon only once. In 13 games. I know true randomness can feel pretty strange to humans, but I think it would be nice to have some weights for who appeared previously. Similarly, I think civ VI had a weight for the player when choosing random?

I see Rev. Napoleon in almost all of my games but have never played against the Emperor persona.

 

[Siptah]

I see Rev. Napoleon in almost all of my games but have never played against the Emperor persona.

Clearly, that's intentional by the devs to force you to start a new game until you meet him. And every copy has a different leader that only appears after you played 20 games. That's surely 2k's fault though, not FXS. They force us poor completionist players to continue playing this outright bad game again and again, and keep the full experience behind this artificial "number of games played" wall!

 

[Menocchio]

I see Rev. Napoleon in almost all of my games but have never played against the Emperor persona.

Coincidences abound, but this is my experience as well. Sad times, since him using his special sanction on the player would be delightfully devious.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I see Rev. Napoleon in almost all of my games but have never played against the Emperor persona.

Clearly the solution is to uninstall Civ 6 so only Emperor Napoleon will appear.

 

[protocol7]

Its not available to buy separately, so it doesn't count. Look pal, I am sick of arguing with you. Pointless exercise with people like you.

Moderator Action: Personal Attack - Don't do it. - Methos
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Simplest thing is to ignore them, you can do so pretty easily. I have a very short ignore list with people who argue in bad faith (I won’t say if this particular person is on it, that’s not the point I’m making at all so please don’t take it that way) just that it’s easy to ignore and it’s a huge quality of life upgrade especially for the ones on the forum all day replying to everyone. It’s an awesome feature from the mods here and good to take advantage of in extreme cases.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I think the best "solution" to avoid stale games is by randomizing your leader and Civ every time and force yourself to play whatever combo's you've been given

I've kind of gone the other way, I select my opponent leaders so nobody gets repeated until I've played against them all.

 

[Fluffball]

and that there are over 28,000 variations of Leaders and Civs you could possibly play/meet!!

Ignoring persona's there are 220 different Leader/Civ combos you could theoretically meet in Antiquity but because of the way it's set up I bet e.g. Hatshepsut of Egypt shows up more often than by random chance.

The mix and match only seems to add confusion and apathy for me. And then ofc when you choose random it is not a random mix and match so the possible combinations you are actually going to encounter are much less than that.

There are 21(?) base game leaders and all seem to have a preference for 2 civs each which is 42 combinations you are likely to meet. With 8 civs per game you could have seen every combination in 6 games.

It's made worse by the fact I never see any difference from AI to AI in the way the game plays out.
I never meet an AI and think I best buff my military as their gonna try to bully me or I best up my science game, or I best make a plan for city states as they will likely rush to convert or wipe them out.

Some of this is down to the era system where a science focused leader/civ only really just ticks the science boxes quicker. All the boxes still get ticked, it is just a matter of how quickly and in what order.

I used to discover a new continent, find a few civs and cities and be able to tell a story of what had been happening or I might get a flash of a border on the edge of sight range but be unable to cross oceans yet and have an idea what is likely to be happening and if I should be worried or you would see some trigger like pantheon on turn one and go...India is out there somewhere. Or there is Austria, diplomatic victory is out of the window.


I met a leader the other day and thought, oh they have been on a conquering spree. It was only around half way through the era i realised they 'were' that civ.

Civ games are usually (often with a pinch of salt and artistic licence) an introduction to history. In a way it is ironic as they have obviously taken effort to introduce lesser know characters (both leaders and civs) but because of the way it has been implemented i have no idea who they are and frankly no interest.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It's made worse by the fact I never see any difference from AI to AI in the way the game plays out.

Interesting because I definitely do - it's way different having Xerxes as a neighbour than Hatty, if you see Machiavelli in the game you know you are going to have to manage your influence really carefully, Ashoka's 2 personalities play totally differently etc etc. I think you are maybe falling into the trap of looking at Civ 7 through the lens of other games in the series where you have so many hours you know the mechanics, civs and leaders inside out.

 

[Fluffball]

Interesting because I definitely do - it's way different having Xerxes as a neighbour than Hatty, if you see Machiavelli in the game you know you are going to have to manage your influence really carefully, Ashoka's 2 personalities play totally differently etc etc. I think you are maybe falling into the trap of looking at Civ 7 through the lens of other games in the series where you have so many hours you know the mechanics, civs and leaders inside out.

I honestly can't say I notice any difference. I am using immortal and even installed the AI mod to try and bring some life to the game but is all a bit samey and bland. Only difference i have seen is the AI is a but more aggressive although that is a bonus as they usually surprise war me, even if they have denounced me so I get free war support.

I haven't stuck with diety as it is just a bit more of a combat grind and the UI seems to lie to you once the AI starts getting combat bonuses. From what I can tell the health loss bar doesn't seem to take into account difficulty bonuses so it is just another UI issue to deal with where i can't make actual decisions because of the lack of or actual misinformation from the UI.

On immortal at least it is sort of close where when it says I will kill a unit they may only be left with a slither of health rather than a quarter to half of their health left like I found on diety.

If i check the stats some civs have massive science or culture outputs but it doesn't really make any difference as your not really in a race with them. Apart from the culture legacy in antiquity which is the only real competitive legacy in the game and you have no hope of on higher difficulties due to the AI bonuses (no AI seems to get it either as no one really focuses on wonders, everyone seems to end up with 2-4 wonders and they are a limited resource) it doesn't matter that they out resource you, you just have to tick the boxes before the end of the era which is easy to do.

I may notice a slight difference with a military civ or a civ with a powerful unit but only because they have increased combat power so they take a bit more grind to kill their units but an AI only tends to get a military legacy if there is space to settle so they can spam cities and not by conquering. The biggest difficulty i have with fighting an AI is 'vegetated terrain' which can be hard to notice at the best of times but oddly seems to count even when you convert it to an urban tile. I had an issue defending a city the other night as the city was on a vegetated tile and I couldn't put my ranged units behind it and see through the city hit attackers.

Most of my games seem to end with me having the option of 2 or 3 victory options and it it is me racing myself to see which project I can finish quickest while the AI hasn't even started to register on the legacy page even if they have multiple times the amount science/culture/gold output i have or a vast military.

 

[Krikkit1]

I honestly can't say I notice any difference. I am using immortal and even installed the AI mod to try and bring some life to the game but is all a bit samey and bland. Only difference i have seen is the AI is a but more aggressive although that is a bonus as they usually surprise war me, even if they have denounced me so I get free war support.

I haven't stuck with diety as it is just a bit more of a combat grind and the UI seems to lie to you once the AI starts getting combat bonuses. From what I can tell the health loss bar doesn't seem to take into account difficulty bonuses so it is just another UI issue to deal with where i can't make actual decisions because of the lack of or actual misinformation from the UI.

On immortal at least it is sort of close where when it says I will kill a unit they may only be left with a slither of health rather than a quarter to half of their health left like I found on diety.

If i check the stats some civs have massive science or culture outputs but it doesn't really make any difference as your not really in a race with them. Apart from the culture legacy in antiquity which is the only real competitive legacy in the game and you have no hope of on higher difficulties due to the AI bonuses (no AI seems to get it either as no one really focuses on wonders, everyone seems to end up with 2-4 wonders and they are a limited resource) it doesn't matter that they out resource you, you just have to tick the boxes before the end of the era which is easy to do.

I may notice a slight difference with a military civ or a civ with a powerful unit but only because they have increased combat power so they take a bit more grind to kill their units but an AI only tends to get a military legacy if there is space to settle so they can spam cities and not by conquering. The biggest difficulty i have with fighting an AI is 'vegetated terrain' which can be hard to notice at the best of times but oddly seems to count even when you convert it to an urban tile. I had an issue defending a city the other night as the city was on a vegetated tile and I couldn't put my ranged units behind it and see through the city hit attackers.

Most of my games seem to end with me having the option of 2 or 3 victory options and it it is me racing myself to see which project I can finish quickest while the AI hasn't even started to register on the legacy page even if they have multiple times the amount science/culture/gold output i have or a vast military.

Well an AI mod will change how the AIs behave... which may make them all somewhat the same... after all Xerxes behavior is just the AI for Xerxes.

 

[Fluffball]

Well an AI mod will change how the AIs behave... which may make them all somewhat the same... after all Xerxes behavior is just the AI for Xerxes.

I think you missunderstood, I decided to try the AI mod  because all the AIs seemed the same and all my games played out essentially the same before i got the AI mod.

They were samey before and are still samey now, just a bit more challenging in that my nearest neighbour is more likely to DoW me in antiquity before I DoW them, whether they are military focused or not and the AI does seem to complete more legacy paths in antiquity and exploration.

Without the AI mod in some of my games I could in theory just end turn spam until time victory and win without doing anything as I was so far ahead in legacy points as the AI was so poor at getting legacy points.

You would think an AI would win by some other victory before that, which they had a chance before the culture victory rebalance, but after that patch i win modern era and check the legacy screen and the AI has zero factory points, maybe some have a couple of artifacts at best, occasionally AI may have taken a (single) city, usually only if i manage to suck them into a war against another AI and no triggers for science victory unless I have triggered them myself.

With AI mod it is a bit better but all my games are still the same.


Antiquity

Pick added sight/movement on scout momentoes so I can find, treasures, city states and good settling spots asap.

Pump out 2 cities ASAP to get to 3 city cap. Go war with nearest neighbour to fill out military legacy.

This usually gets you plenty of resources for economic legacy by default so mainly use merchants to build additional connections between settlements so my towns feed my cities better when I specialise them and I can get huge amounts of influence by choosing hub towns.

Spend all my influence on getting city states (science one first and pick tech for each city state then culture for the same) then get most of my tech/civics from city state befriending and then stealing tech/civics from AI once I have run out of city states. I always fill out the tree, often have extra codices and a couple of future tech/civics.



Exploration.

Pick increased sight and movement on water momentoes to find treasure and distant lands asap.

Buy some cogs while building settlers to rush some DL resources islands for economic victory and military path maybe DoW a distant lands civ late in the era to pop over the military cap. Taking island cities for easy wins as AI often doesn't even have ships never mind tries to use them effectively. As I ran out of stuff to build at end of antiquity I have huge land military so AI never DoWs me.

Turn all towns to hubs for massive influence gain and snag all the city states, again science first for free techs. Then steal techs and civics when out of city states.

Grab religion early. Make 3-4 missionaries just to convert city states which the AI never does so one charge each to get easy relics and then maybe a couple of my distant lands cities to cap off the military legacy. I usually build a couple extra as they can cross any borders and can't be attacked so perfect for exploring the inner parts of the new continent and finding more city states and generally revealing the map.

Focus on happiness to get lots of celebrations and social policy slots so you can use cards which buff yields and get 30-40 tiles with 40+ yields without even having to think about specialists.

I do usually have some specialist as I have run out of tiles to work.



Modern era

Take some combat momentoes as at least they will help with the military victory and nothing else really stands out as useful.

Grab as many city states as usual, partly because what else am I going to do with all this influence and stat boost do help as well as the odd artifact to make things a bit quicker.

Get explorer tech and buy a few which is now quite expensive but usually easy to afford and start grabbing artifacts.

Wait for ideology and start taking 10 cities...Usually just picking of island cities again, maybe go for some in the homelands if the AI decides to dogpile as it often does and seems programmed to do. Only seen the AI take an ideology once and that was around 2 turns before I won. If I am lucky I will actually have planes a few turns before I have my 10 cities so I can play with them. Often either finished before planes or not worth bothering.

Peace out as soon as I have the 10 cities and start the two projects.

Buy factories in all my cities and start slotting resources to get them ticking. Usually have enough around the I finished conquering so have a choice of victories.

Depending on luck/if I could be bothered sometimes have enough artifacts to start culture project also.

Start any projects while i Wizz the banker around the world and win by whichever finished quickest.

Game over, rinse and repeat.

Same game whichever civ I choose and whichever civ the AI has.

 

[Picrasso]

We definitely need more variety. I mostly miss ancient European civs (Celts, German tribes). If I'm not playing Greece or Rome, they will always appear with a French leader (Napoleon, Lafayette) or Italian leader. Perhaps the deluxe edition helps with this, with adding Carthage. I haven't picked Crossroads up yet (waiting for a discount). I feel like it's most jarring in the ancient era, after that it feels mostly fine to me.

 

[marius_kaparius]

I want a more natural lead in to Incas that has a mountain bias.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I want a more natural lead in to Incas that has a mountain bias.

Good point, the Shawnees need a more natural predecessor than Egypt (for navigable rivers).