[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Shoshone - Replace Ancient Ruins choice with More Ruins

[ma_kuh]

Original Shoshone proposal:

(8-37) 4UC Shoshone

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Shoshoni civilization. Unlike other threads, the Shoshone are due to go through a rework, so I cannot post a preview of the new base VP kit

forums.civfanatics.com

Counter proposal:

UA - The Great Expanse
Cities claim up to 4 additional tiles when acquired, and claim adjacent unowned tiles when their borders expand to a land tile of the same type.
All Recon Units can choose rewards from Ancient Ruins. Spawn an Ancient Ruin nearby when acquiring a city.
Units gain +20% Combat Strength within 2 tiles of an owned Encampment.


Reasoning:
Ancient Ruins have largely been equalized in value, tempering the value of dodging the lows and picking the highs. On top of that, the AI currently chooses randomly anyway, nullifying the ability altogether. (Even if we set this aside as future "AI improvements", Human players are significantly better than the AI at timing and choosing these rewards, and the Shoshone AI has no compensation for this disparity.)

We simplify the ability so that it is always a power-boost, and more controllable by the player. (Ability applies when you settle, and when you conquer a city, to disincentivize razing, in accordance with the tile acquisition.) There is an indirect synergy with Antiquity Sites, but nothing guaranteed.

 

[ma_kuh]

Wait the Landsknecht's promotions are "bonus versus full-health" and it receives Formation II over Tercio's normal Formation I. This is disastrous.

 

[Hinin]

Wait the Landsknecht's promotions are "bonus versus full-health" and it receives Formation II over Tercio's normal Formation I. This is disastrous.

"Every Comanche a Doppelsodner" - Pocatello, reportedly.

Seriously though, the Shoshones already have a bonus combat in territory. There is no need to stack even more combat bonuses. If you dislike the Ancient Ruin part of their kit, which is understandable, there are other ways to boost them economically instead of going the military route (they are not the Zulus).

 

[ma_kuh]

I was thinking of giving them culture when attacking full-health units instead, but that's very Huns, and also I wasn't sure it was doable. The last time I added an ability that wasn't immediately implementable from pieces I understood, it lost sponsorship, so I'm hesitant to throw out random cool ideas.

Counting Coup is a unique an thematic tie-in, and more interesting than 20% CS near encampments. I would pick it over the existing CS bonus any day.

 

[ma_kuh]

Okay, trying something a little different.

UPDATE:
Removed:
Melee units start with Counting Coup.
Added:
Spawn an Ancient Ruin nearby when acquiring a city.

 

[pineappledan]

Why not just remove the ancient ruins ability with no compensation?

 

[ma_kuh]

Honestly, I'm just not sure people would vote for it. It's not really doing much to be honest, but Shoshone gameplay already feels pretty bland. Being able to snipe a faith around turn 25 is kind of the only "special" thing they do (so they're just slow and inconsistent India). Yes you get big areas to play in, but you're just walking workers around making encampments much of the time. I don't know, they still lack an identity to me. Too close to Huns, too close to Songhai, too close to Denmark (rewards for harrying cities, barbarians, and pillaging, respectively). Even their border blobs just feel like Spain or Russia without design space to actually make them do anything.

And they're bottom of the pack by win-rate, but I guess that's taking into account random Ancient Ruins already...

The one thing I think might have legs is giving them payoffs for unworked/unworkable tiles, as the Buffalo Pound does. But it would need to be era scaling, or receive improvements from techs somehow.

 

[azum4roll]

I replaced it with the ability to grow to radius 6 (potentially 7 with their extra tile gain) in my last proposal.

Btw, I've also heard feedback that their UA is actually weaker with the aura +20% instead of friendly land +20% because the AI has trouble building encampments before pissing off all his neighbours due to claiming all the land.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.