A Babylon 5 Mod for the Final Frontier Mod

[Doomspark]

Back after a hiatus, and just downloaded the latest version. Lovely new ships! And I'm very pleased to see that it's now possible to find spoo, brevari, and so forth. Lots of comments - all meant constructively.

The Caveman to Cosmos mod has an automated function for military units to patrol borders. I know *nothing* about modding, but this would be a terrific thing to add. It would fit with the story of the game; border patrols are an integral part of military strategy.

I've also been thinking a lot about jump gates and hyperspace, and how to implement them. While I appreciate the work you've put in to them here, I don't like the way they currently work. How about this instead: Construction ships build jump gates like starbases (takes 10 turns, costs 1000 credits, consumes the unit). Jump gates are national units, so you can only build a few of them (which forces some strategic thinking). They can be captured. Units can travel from jump gate to jump gate in one turn (maybe this could be tweaked depending on distance). The temporary jump gates that ships create can be treated the same way.

If this is done, turn off the road building function for the construction ships. It's ... not realistic. Instead, add technologies that increase ship speed (slightly) which reduces travel time. Link "cities" together once their borders meet (with the help of starbases). And see my comment about wormholes below.

Possible bug: radiation scrubbers don't automatically seek radiation to clear.

Bug: it's possible when setting up a game to select the standard maps as well as the FF maps.

The Minbari and the Dilgar can build Universities immediately. This gives them quite the advantage over the other races, particularly early in the game when you need to research so many things before you can get out into space. I'm not sure this is well-balanced.

Wormholes are problematic. Logically speaking, if you control both ends of a wormhole, the planets on both ends should be considered "connected" to each other - but they aren't.

I'd like to see some tweaking of the map script at some point. Larger galaxies with more systems. Unstable wormholes. Options to increase / decrease resources. More map features, both hostile and beneficial (nebulae, comets, etc).

Random event suggestion: encounter with a First One.

 

[PsiCorps]

Thanks for the Feedback Doomspark.

We have recently resolved the issue preventing further development so we are now able to forge ahead with the Mod.

The Caveman to Cosmos mod has an automated function for military units to patrol borders. I know *nothing* about modding, but this would be a terrific thing to add. It would fit with the story of the game; border patrols are an integral part of military strategy.

I am aware of this feature and would like to add it into the B5 Mod, I just haven't had the time to see if it is available as a standalone ModComp to enable it's merging with this.

I've also been thinking a lot about jump gates and hyperspace, and how to implement them. While I appreciate the work you've put in to them here, I don't like the way they currently work. How about this instead: Construction ships build jump gates like starbases (takes 10 turns, costs 1000 credits, consumes the unit). Jump gates are national units, so you can only build a few of them (which forces some strategic thinking). They can be captured. Units can travel from jump gate to jump gate in one turn (maybe this could be tweaked depending on distance). The temporary jump gates that ships create can be treated the same way.

If this is done, turn off the road building function for the construction ships. It's ... not realistic. Instead, add technologies that increase ship speed (slightly) which reduces travel time. Link "cities" together once their borders meet (with the help of starbases). And see my comment about wormholes below.

I like the idea but I don't know how easy this would be to do. I know we are trying to introduce a 'blind' jump so that a ship opening a jump point and wanting to go to an unexplored area can do so. The primary problem with making the Jump Gate you suggest a National Unit is that you will still need to have one jump gate per system and as this will be a variable figure in every game you play you cannot set a maximum number in the UnitClassInfos. If there was a tag like the buildings have 'OnePerSystem' then it should be relatively easy. I'd need to speak to the rest of the Developement team to see if it is possible.

Getting rid of the 'route' system would be good (I really dislike the way the AI spams the routes) but it is a requirement for trade routes. If we can change them so that they provide no bonus to movement and only provide a trade route linking Star Systems ie They represent Merchant Vessels which can still be pillaged and get the AI to understand the function of the trade route then I am all for this.

Possible bug: radiation scrubbers don't automatically seek radiation to clear.

Don't know why this is, I just took a unit idea suggested elsewhere and designed a unit that could do what was needed. Anyone who can suggest a way to get the scrubbers to seek radiation to clear please pass it on.

Bug: it's possible when setting up a game to select the standard maps as well as the FF maps.

I would like to stop this from happening but have other issues that are a higher priority at the moment.

The Minbari and the Dilgar can build Universities immediately. This gives them quite the advantage over the other races, particularly early in the game when you need to research so many things before you can get out into space. I'm not sure this is well-balanced.

Already addressed this issue in the version I'm currently working on. All Civs will be starting with the same tech.

Wormholes are problematic. Logically speaking, if you control both ends of a wormhole, the planets on both ends should be considered "connected" to each other - but they aren't.

I don't really like the wormhole maps for the B5 universe, but I want to give everyone the choice of maps to use that have been brought out for FF/FF+. I am no good at the sort of coding it would require to say a wormhole links two systems at opposite ends together so this one will have to stay unresolved,. Simplest answer would be not to use the Wormhole Maps.

I'd like to see some tweaking of the map script at some point. Larger galaxies with more systems. Unstable wormholes. Options to increase / decrease resources. More map features, both hostile and beneficial (nebulae, comets, etc).

Random event suggestion: encounter with a First One.

I've already taken some steps in this direction and made the maps larger which means there is a bit more space between star systems on standard settings. Resources are also currently being reviewed. Unfortunately Hostile/Beneficial map features aren't under consideration at the moment. However, I am aiming to get more events into the game that cover such things as comets/meteors/meteorites and other space orientated events.

I'll try and keep you posted as we progress further with the Mod.

 

[Doomspark]

I appreciate the quick (and thoughtful) response to my suggestions.

I guess I didn't explain my idea behind the jump gates very well. I'm not envisioning one per system, but a completely static number (hence National Unit). The idea is that the player has to choose where to build them, and if he builds them too early ... oh well. You'd build one gate to handle multiple nearby systems - and you'd have to guard it from raiders and opponents.

I don't know if National Units can be scaled with map size. If so, I'd suggest it.

Again, I really, really, love this mod. I'm glad to see that some of my concerns have already been addressed, and I'm VERY pleased to know that the mod is still under development.

 

[PsiCorps]

I appreciate the quick (and thoughtful) response to my suggestions.

I guess I didn't explain my idea behind the jump gates very well. I'm not envisioning one per system, but a completely static number (hence National Unit). The idea is that the player has to choose where to build them, and if he builds them too early ... oh well. You'd build one gate to handle multiple nearby systems - and you'd have to guard it from raiders and opponents.

I don't know if National Units can be scaled with map size. If so, I'd suggest it.

Again, I really, really, love this mod. I'm glad to see that some of my concerns have already been addressed, and I'm VERY pleased to know that the mod is still under development.

We've been discussing this quite a bit and based on the information we have from Canon sources we think we have a working solution to your suggestion. That said it still needs to be implemented and tested to ensure it works as we want it. On top of that there are many other new aspects to the Mod we are keen to get in and tested before a new release is made available, all new ships built by Premier will also be included.

 

[CainStar]

Uuuuh can't wait for next release =)

 

[PsiCorps]

Uuuuh can't wait for next release =)

Apologies for the long delay in responding, been very busy testing the latest version to make sure it is all working as wanted and with no error messages.

Unfortunately I am getting some error messages related to the last mod comp we added, it's nothing major but will spoil your enjoyment of the mod if I don't get it sorted. Clearing 6 pop up messages per active Civ each turn quickly gets annoying.

If all is sorted quickly a new version should be available this month.

 

[rtt4a]

Just want to say that its really nice to see your still working this

Waiting the new version, pretty soon I hope?

 

[Tschuggi]

Just want to say that its really nice to see your still working this

Waiting the new version, pretty soon I hope?

I agree. Hope to be able to play the upcoming version soon.

 

[PsiCorps]

Just want to say that its really nice to see your still working this

Waiting the new version, pretty soon I hope?

I agree. Hope to be able to play the upcoming version soon.

I'm doing final testing on the fixes at the moment. Play balance is the most difficult thing to get right at the moment but a release by month end is looking likely.

 

[rtt4a]

Great news then! thanks Psicorps

Balancing is endless challenge, perhaps the best way is just release and ask community to give feedback. You cant do it alone but thanks for trying

I played couple rounds 3.0 and here is some feedback.. Nothing major just observations.

- turn times, game runs smoothly until about 150 turns but after that turns take 7-10s. My hardware is high end so this is slow. Even C2C and other megamods runs lot faster. Last version I played before 3.0 was 2.8 and I think game was faster then?

- Marathon speed = whole game 1 month in ceriment ---> first alien contact about 2040 First 100 turns could be 9-12 months like other game speeds

- One dilgar ship appears red buble.. sorry dont remember which one

- theres something wrong with hybrid technology, it wont displays correct in techtree and technomage ship in game (tested via WB) causes crash after enter.

and one suggestion; jump points should have huge negative defence bonus. Now you can fortify ships on jump points and keep them ready to jump always. Ship in open jump point was vulnerable on attacks in show so this is canon also

great job!

 

[PsiCorps]

- turn times, game runs smoothly until about 150 turns but after that turns take 7-10s. My hardware is high end so this is slow. Even C2C and other megamods runs lot faster. Last version I played before 3.0 was 2.8 and I think game was faster then?

I believe 3.0 has the Barbs appearing on turn 150 so depending on which Barbarian setting you have chosen for the game, eg raging Barbarians will significantly slow down the game. This is being changed for the next version.

- Marathon speed = whole game 1 month in ceriment ---> first alien contact about 2040 First 100 turns could be 9-12 months like other game speeds

I'll have a look at this but I make no promises of change.

- One dilgar ship appears red buble.. sorry dont remember which one

This may already have been fixed but i'll double check the Dilgar ships just in case.

- theres something wrong with hybrid technology, it wont displays correct in techtree and technomage ship in game (tested via WB) causes crash after enter.

I've never got this far in playtesting...too many things early on to balance to get that far. However, I'll try and restrain myself from early fixes that force me to restart and continue playing until I get to Hybrid Technology. I may know what the problem with the Technomage ship is but need to test it first.

and one suggestion; jump points should have huge negative defence bonus. Now you can fortify ships on jump points and keep them ready to jump always. Ship in open jump point was vulnerable on attacks in show so this is canon also

Negative defence bonus added for fortifying on a jump point.

great job!

Thank you and thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.

 

[rtt4a]

Just open tech three in game and choose organic technology. hybrid should be just before on path but try to find it I think it could be "under" organic.. dont know how techtree works but graphics are messed like theres two techs in same place. Maybe I should reinstal if this is just me?

Negative defence bonus added for fortifying on a jump point.

fortifying, sentry, healing and everything possibility to maintain always open jump point should be eliminated. real jump gates is one thing and temporaly points build by ships is another.

You have plans to bring real jump gates in game..? It would be great

Thank you and thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.

Anything for the cause You and other team members are my heroes.

You send me beta long time ago and I helped with some xml things. Offer stands if you need help bug solving or testing, also limitations stands so I can only do xml.

 

[PsiCorps]

Just open tech three in game and choose organic technology. hybrid should be just before on path but try to find it I think it could be "under" organic.. dont know how techtree works but graphics are messed like theres two techs in same place. Maybe I should reinstal if this is just me?

Nope, it's not you, there was an error, now corrected.

fortifying, sentry, healing and everything possibility to maintain always open jump point should be eliminated. real jump gates is one thing and temporaly points build by ships is another.

You have plans to bring real jump gates in game..? It would be great

The plan to have a jump gate as a real feature is on hold for now... with all the things recently added and being tested we ran out of time to get everything in I had wanted to do. But that feature and more are coming.

Anything for the cause You and other team members are my heroes.

Thank you

You send me beta long time ago and I helped with some xml things. Offer stands if you need help bug solving or testing, also limitations stands so I can only do xml.

We do still need a lot of help with xml stuff, specifically pedia and strategy entries for units/buildings. I've been trying to tailor things so the Mod has more Babylon 5 flavour than standard Civ 4 options. Map sizes for example now have a load of new names instead of the small, large, giant etc, etc. Would you rather be asked to contribute to something specific or would you prefer to just pick something you want to help out with?

Hope to have more info over the weekend.

 

[rtt4a]

Hmmm.. I have really limited time now so my help have to be something specific. Something I can do over one night.. You dont have anything specific in mind?

I can play single game and fix everything quick in xml what I notice on the way? I could do for example:
- TXT_KEY fixes, pedia entrys
- Ship graphics scaling (based canon sources) correct scaling and timing=my fetish
- and of course marathon speed timeline adjustment first contact around 2150

December I am of duty couple weeks and then I can start doing pedia. Its actually easy because theres much sources, copy paste and lots of time

Are you releasing beta soon or should you send me a copy of latest version?

Almost forgot, I would also like to do scenario. I dont like this balanced milkyway thing
Main differences to basic game would be:
- Start year 2085 (The Earth Alliance was founded in 2085)
- life is a and if you chose human you start 800 years behind Minbari ---> so on, civ determines difficulty level
- More unique civs, younger ones gets benefits to survive tech cap against older and every civ needs different strategy to win

For scenario use my wet dream is that some day Premier make shadow and vorlon ships even one of both would be enough

 

[PsiCorps]

- and of course marathon speed timeline adjustment first contact around 2150

This would be my first choice for you to look at, followed by

- TXT_KEY fixes, pedia entrys

and then

Ship graphics scaling (based canon sources) correct scaling and timing=my fetish

If you work on version 3.0 as the base it's easy enough for me to merge into 3.1. There are still a lot of things being done to get 3,1 ready that involve DLL and Python changes that giving you access to it would not be useful.

 

[rtt4a]

I will choose first and third

- marathon speed fix is quick one and easy to include 3.1
- scaling.. its just fun. Would be more fun if you give latest graphic files, there must be over 20 new ships from premier after 3.0

TXT_KEYS and pedia takes time, I will start that with 3.1.

BTW couple new observations.. assault ships dont have early movement restriction, transport does. AI is using assault ships for exploring

Missiles works like recon units, map revealing should be limited one tile radius

 

[rtt4a]

This looks pretty good speed for marathon. 300 turns = 2150
Tested on huge spiral map, first contacts around 270-330 turns. Human player can ofcource beeline scout ship techs and be first in space, with good luck first contact 2100

<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>6</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>3</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>9700</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>

 

[PsiCorps]

This looks pretty good speed for marathon. 300 turns = 2150
Tested on huge spiral map, first contacts around 270-330 turns. Human player can ofcource beeline scout ship techs and be first in space, with good luck first contact 2100

<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>6</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>3</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>1</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>9700</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>

Thanks rtt4a I'll get that in place tonight once I get home.

 

[rtt4a]

Glad if I can help

I will start scaling ships next week, when ready I PM files to you.

If its ok to you I can do some more adjustments with game speeds? Testing that marathon speed fix points out that cons/build/train times could need some tuning. Other game speeds are ok, but marathon is little too much just clicking first 300 turns.

BTW, slownes in turn times which I reported starts turn 230 in marathon speed. Normal speed it started around 150 turns. Maybe this has something to do with movement restrictions? about that time AI starts building ships and exploring..

I also noticed another oddity in techtree, there was one tech in path that could be skipped totally. I dont think this is intented, shame that I wont remember now what tech it was Next game Ill check this..

 

[PsiCorps]

BTW, slownes in turn times which I reported starts turn 230 in marathon speed. Normal speed it started around 150 turns. Maybe this has something to do with movement restrictions? about that time AI starts building ships and exploring.

I believe this issue has also now been overcome to a large extent.