Roland Johansen
Deity
I disagree. At higher levels the AI has a stronger economy because it grows faster builds infrastructure faster techs faster (etc), the AI is VERY good at adpating to bad happiness and stuff now, in fact it should pretty much always focus on whatever aspect of it's economy is weakest, this means it can adapt to added expenses or added unhappiness in a way it once couldn't (or at least not effectively). Making the AI feel some pressure in certain areas can also help to direct it's development - rather than playing in a total economic sandbox - the AI is now adaptive enough that it doesn't NEED the sandbox.
While this does mean the AI can no longer flash-upgrade it's entire army the AI doesn't have a problem with finding "other" ways to recycle it's units such as mass zerg attacks on cities. The AI has no compulsion to raise cash until all of it's units are upgraded, it tries to upgrade some with petty cash and will mass upgrade after a cash boon (a cash bomb will be worth ~30-50 units) but it wont go to 100%g to upgrade units and thus it's economy wont be crippled by the presence of a mass of obsolete units. The only difference is that it'll have more obsolete units around for longer, which is basically what people want - no instant upgrade of the ENTIRE army.
It's very good to hear that the AI is more adaptive to certain situations and can change its economy to fix its problems.
But when comparing the levels of economic development between a deity level AI and a noble level AI for this purpose, you should compare them at the moment that they develop a technology that allows them to upgrade their army (like Feudalism for the archer->longbowman upgrade). And at that moment, they will have similar buildings in their cities and similar development of their land (technology research speed and building speed gets similar handicap bonusses). So the main advantage for the deity level AI is the lower city and civic upkeep costs. And that won't cover the extra expenses of a much larger army that needs to be upgraded.
Personally, I think a 5% upgrade cost at deity level is too low, it's too cheap to upgrade. But I also think that if the deity AI has an army that is three times as large as a noble level AI, then the deity level AI should have an upgrade cost of one third of the noble upgrade cost (so 1/3 of 50%, 15% or 20% would be ok).
In civ3 most people hated the fact that the AI never seemed to upgrade its units. There were a lot of complaints about this issue. Of course these complaints are now gone as the AI in civ4 upgrades very quickly. But when we go back to a situation where the AI doesn't upgrade a large section of its army, then those complaints will come back.
By the way, the AI upgrades for half the human cost in your suggested handicap setting, so that means 1.5 gold per hammer difference in unit building cost plus a small nominal fee (12.5) for a unit upgrade. That's an upgrade cost at which it should upgrade its army. It will be far more expensive to rebuild it than to upgrade it because it is far easier to obtain gold then it is to obtain hammers. In the late game the universal suffrage civic allows one to rush buy for 3 gold per hammer and even this ability is considered bordering on overpowered by some (me included). So if the AI doesn't upgrade for 1.5 gold per hammer but rebuilds the units, then it is wasting resources. It shouldn't waste obsolete units in a war when it can upgrade them.
Blake said:Arlborn said:By the way people, this changes in the handicap were more about what HE thought was better for the whole scene. This deffenetelly DONT need to go togheter with the DLL if you dont want to(as far as I know). And also, you can really easily change it yourself.
Thank you for saying that.
I agree with that statement. I really don't want to say what you should do with this mod. I really only want the best for this mod and I just don't think this is such a great idea. But it is your mod. I personally am perfectly capable of changing the settings in the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml in two minutes or so.
Blake said:I'm also going to quote someone from another thread:
uberfish said:When the AI mass upgraded, I actually wanted to find Blake and throw him out the window too for making the AI so much better at production while leaving its upgrade cheats in. This is not fun, or balanced.
I do live on the first floor of a building so the fall would not be harmful but I recognized uberfish's point as being a very valid one.
Can't make everyone happy can only use my judgment to the best of my ability.
I also don't want you thrown out of a building, really.

What about the AI war weariness at the higher levels. The more units will lead to heavier losses and thus more war weariness. It has nothing to do with economy (mwah, except using the culture slider for happiness but you don't want to do that too often). I do again think that the war weariness setting for the AI should be scaled to the size of its army.