A brief synopsis of the notion of "Infinite" (Apeiron) in early Greek philosophy

Kyriakos

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I think this could be a somewhat interesting topic. Obviously it will help me practice my own presentations on philosophy, so i might as well create it here :)

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The first philosopher, according to Aristotle, was Thales of Miletus, in the mid 7th century BC. However the second in that school, his student Anaximander, was the first to speak of a notion of a 'limitless', or 'infinite' (although the meaning of infinite was secondary to his idea, primarily it was the meaning of something without any limit, or even form). 'Apeiron', the term still used in math here, or else for the idea of infinity or no limit, was Anaximander's primal or primordial element for the cosmos- or rather in plural, the cosmoi, cause he argued that the worlds (either star systems, or even whole universes, by current terminology) were many and not just one.

1) Anaximander, Democritus and Protagoras

Anaximander lived in the early 6th century BC. His own student was Anaximenes, the third of the Milesian philosophers, and possibly also Pythagoras of Samos. While Pythagoras later on moved to the other edge of the Greek world, to Italy and the colonies there, Anaximenes remained a part of the Milesian (and overall Ionian) school of philosophy, and in many respects can be said to have been closer to Thales than Anaximander. For example Anaximenes also defined a prime building substance of the cosmos, as Thales had. Thales proposed Water as that substance. Anaximenes proposed Air, arguing that the changes in density lead it to at one end become fire (less density) and the other end earth (more density). He is mostly argued to have been a father of the notion of examining opposites in physical circumstances, such as heat or density.

Democritus lived a century after Anaximenes. He was a defining philosopher of the school of Abdera, a Greek colony in coastal Thrace. His own main theory was that any material form breaks up to smaller forms, which he termed as "Atoma", ie atoms, the term used later on by modern physics. Democritus, such as the other notable philosophers linked to Abdera (like Protagoras, a former servant who was took under the protection of Democritus and became his student), can be said (in my view) to be (as geographically as well) a middle point or a synthesis between the ends of the Ionian and the Italiotic Greek philosophical movements. At least by and large.

Protagoras arrived in Athens following the defeat of the Persians in their second and final expedition against mainland Greece. He was the most notable of the sophists, and argued also to have been an originator of their order. The Sophists were paid teachers of ways of thinking in a number of subjects, from math to political thought, to more abstract philosophy. They are presented in the Platonic dialogues, speaking with Socrates.

2. The Infinite of Anaximander as a beginning before the current progression, and as an ending after the current progression.

Anaximander's most famous saying (of those which have been saved in some form) is quoted by later, mostly early Byzantine, scholars, such as Simplicius in the 6th century AD. According to it: "The origin (Arche) of the cosmoi is the limitless/indefinate/infinite, from which they came to be, and to which they return to be destroyed back to, according to the order which seeks them to pay back what was given to them, the order of Time (Chronos)".
This saying was examined by various thinkers in later millenia too, such as Nietzsche, who sees in it a sort of punishing quality in the current cosmos. But the Apeiron of Anaximander was primarily something outside (by definition, as an axiom) of what we can study. An origin of the cosmoi which was axiomatically set outside of the grasp of humans. This abstraction plays a very important role in anything which followed in Greek philosophy.

3. Protagoras and Anaxagoras in Athens, 5th century BC

Anaxagoras was from Ionia, the city of Klazomenae, which along with Ephesos, Miletos and Kolophon were the main Greek cities in Asia linked to philosophy in those periods. His own particular contribution was to argue that the borderless which Anaximander spoke of 2 centuries before, was borderless to one direction, but not another. Ie it was the human thinking, the human thinker, who could examine anything outside his own conscious thought, in a more expanded manner, while in a more problematic manner to also look to his own conscious thought and analyse it to equal complexity. In other words Anaxagoras argued that it was Logic (which in his work also means the consciousness, or its center) that gave form to anything one could observe, and moreover itself could not be examined in the same manner, cause it could not look to its own self with the same freedom. Self-introspection, of course, is a different order of examination than examining external objects or phenomena.
Protagoras argued famously that "Man is the meter of all things", which seems to me to add another stability to the border set by Anaxagoras, and before him Anaximander. Now not only is consciousness the stable point below which things can blurred and one can hardly seek an origin/arche, but it is the specific human species which sets the border through largely non-conscious as to their reason, similarities. For example we may have very different views in a myriad of things, but all humans will see a triangle as a triangle and not as a circle (provided they know how each shape is called).

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Well, this was a sort of brief synopsis of the arguments for the central idea of that which is without limit, in ancient Greek Philosophy. Expanded it includes the Eleatic philosophers (Parmenides, Zeno, to an extent also Pythagoras) and the position that the Origin/Arche is by itself not just axiomatically distant and out of reach, but non-existent. The synthesis of the two views, the Ionian of a defined Origin, the Eleatic of a non-defined origin, would be the view presented above, of a clear border, to sides of which lay unrecongnisable, obscure, shadowy origins, which serve as a limit to philosophy.

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Thank you if you took the time to read all that... RD'd it just cause it became a bit larger as an OP than i originally meant, and would not feel that well if met with some comment outside of the topic :D
 
Given the success of the thread up to now, i just had to add a new chapter ;) (well, it just helps me sum up the stuff to present, anyway..).

Following the Eleatics, in the start of the 5th century, the notion of infinity was presented as something more akeen to the Hesiodian 'Chaos', ie something which is not to be examined by human thought, something endlessly divisible, something in unity, and therefore (as Parmenides of Elea claimed) the entire cosmos would be bound by the endless divisibility to arrive at the stage of being unable to be altered. Zeno, with his paradoxes, is the better source for this rather 'dark' view.

In Zeno's remaining paradoxa (9 are named by Aristotle, but it is claimed they originally were more than 40), the central idea is that anything in the world is infinitely divisible, and therefore given the divisions never end it can never actually occupy a different space (cause next to it the divisions never end either; there is no room for movement). The argument was countered by the Atomists, the most celebrated of which was Democritus, with his famous idea of the atom, literally something meaning 'non-divisible'.

The theory of Democritos (and probably his teacher, Leukippos), was that the divisions of anything in the world do end in some point, the atom. The atoms according to Democritos are tiny particles which move in a massive (and likely infinite larger than them) 'void' (κενό), and their different arrangements bring about the first difference in the matter which itself is still divisible.
Democritos argued this in replying to Zeno's paradoxes, and also the huge influence of Parmenides (Zeno's teacher) by the 5th century, which made even Plato argue that "Parmenides is the father of our philosophy". Plato, characteristically, ends up attributing 'god' as the defining meter of what is real in the world (in very obvious and direct contrast to the concurrent line by the leading sophist Protagoras, who named man as that meter).

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The debate about there being infinite divisibility or not, in the 5th century BC, is crucial for a number of reasons.
On one level the issue of the paradoxes by Zeno seems to be about unknown limits to a sequence (in this situation a sequence of divisions), and it should be noted that 2 centuries later Archimedes indeed presented an examination of those paradoxes through math and his own proto-calculus methods.
But on another level the issue of infinite or non-infinite division of anything is not merely about a theoretical concept (as in a paradox), but about the nature of the cosmos as well. Democritos famously agreed with the Eleatics that if matter was infinitely divisible, then no change (of any kind, eg movement or alteration of 'real' form-- juxtaposed to merely sensory form) could take place. This would mean either that the obviously observable changes (eg a person moving from point A to point B) would be as illusory so as to not allow any correct or worthy thought to be made on account of them, OR it would mean that regardless of illusory change, Parmenides would be correct to claim that everything in the cosmos is 'One', a 'Monad' (Μονάς), which seemingly has many forms or parts because it is infinitely divided and therefore never could alter from one to another outside of sensory perception.
Democritos argues that the divisions of matter end somewhere, at the atomic level, cause this allows for sensory input to play a role (ie the obvious view of movement or such changes is again crucial in philosophical thought), but also because he regards it as suicidal for thinking to let go or banish a main source of forming views (our sensory input).

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Math was also a main subject of the debate, again. For example Democritos famously presented his own question, of the divisibility or not of a level of a cone. He asked what would happen if we could cut a cone parallel to its basis, and then examine the two faces (2d surfaces/planes) created at either immediate position of the cut. He notes that if the two faces are unequal (the one closer to the basis being infinitesimally larger) then the cone would be something step-like, pyramidal in its tiniest parts of altered slope. But if the two faces are equal, then how would we see the change occuring obviously from the vast base to the tiny, dot-like pinnacle of the cone?
:)

(in general the above are the center of the current seminar circle in the second week).
 
thanks Kyrie very interesting post, I will read it later, cannot wait to learn about this!
 
thanks Kyrie very interesting post, I will read it later, cannot wait to learn about this!

You are welcome Haroon :)

Btw Kyrie means Lord (often used for god, but for human lords too), while Kyriakos means 'of the Lord'/lordian ;)

Think of it as a god-backed housecarle or something.

I mean even the emperor John B' Komnenos led the Varangians to battle :mischief: (but i look better than him; it seems he mostly looked like Tyrion).
 
gosh, then I will call you Kossy instead, I don't want to call you "Lord" it feel not like an equal relationship but thanks for the information!
 
That sounds close to Cosplay :/ And i always wear black clothes, supposedly of the current period (or some undefined one).

Just call me Kyriakos ;)
 
is it still mean Lord or is somekind like incomplete sentence?

Kyrie mean Lord
Kyriakos mean ...of the Lord

so it can be mean House of the Lord for example? or servant of the Lord?
 
^That is Basileus Basileon (Basileus is the greek term for -earthly- king, and rarely used - apart from poetically- for a god) ;)

@Haroon: Kyriakos is in the masculine form (like any other male name) so it could in theory mean any masculine object which is of a god, but in reality the only manner to use it is either in the monastic name (again Kyriakos, but now with the highlight on the 'o') or the popular name (my own). A bit like the Christos/Chrestos division in Greek, the popular name is highlighted in another part, and is spelled with a Heta, while the name of Jesus is spelled with an iota).

The term for 'sunday' (in latin it is domenica iirc) in Greek is also of the same root, cause it means (as in latin) 'day of the Lord/god')
 
I uh ..... I am sorry Kyriakos , You should be proud ! Greek people "got it" n for
Roman Empire" and roman Empire accepted Catholic faith! wow ! But I like You I love to see Glorious Greek Cities - like Constantinople for example (You know ! Byzantium are basically Greeks !) The Athens ! And glorious Cities !!!! ..... Democracy is developed by You !!!!!! (hence the word - Democrates) ;)
 
infinitesimal

Your work and effort are appreciated.
 
:agree: post more Kyra when summer holiday finally come, I will devour it for sure. Also you can record your lecture if it is in English, and upload it in youtube, that will be awesome I think.
 
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