A Call for Meta, and a Call for OP/UP Things!

[Gazebo]

Hey everyone.

Using Wodhann's nice model, I'd like you all to take a survey on the CBP's balance. These can all be one-word answers, or you can add more if you would like.

Things I want:

1. Your favorite strategy
2. The strategy you think is most OP
3. The most OP unit in the game (for its era)
4. The most OP building in the game (for its era)
5. The most OP wonder in the game (for its era)
6. The most OP leader in the game
7. The most UP (under-powered) unit in the game (for its era)
8. The most UP building in the game (for its era)
9. The most UP wonder in the game (for its era)
10. The most UP leader in the game

Cheers!
G

Edit: removed apostrophes (stupid tablet).

 

[Strigvir]

1. Hugbox
2. Baiting a particular civ into DoW'ing my hugbox. Because chance-based DoWs are the greatest idea ever.
6. Ethiopia. Thanks to them I hate Eastern Orthodoxy.
10. Any civ with gimmicky UA.

 

[Aristos]

I will be honest with you. I will not answer any of the questions, but will tell you what I think the state of the mod is now. I think CBP is heavily suffering from Scope Creep; you know coding, so you obviously know what it means. I think the mod has gone too far away from its elegant, beautiful original intent and to much into adding and adding new features.

The problem of adding and adding new features is that, as you know, you add and add new imbalances. Honestly, at this point, CBP starts to feel as if it is very, very close to a point of no return, after which it will basically become impossible to balance.

I think you should really stop adding features completely, and even consider filtering some of the worst offenders out for the sake of regaining the elegant original intent (BALANCE and fix), and focus ONLY on that from now on. I don't think we need more new features, as cool as they may sound in paper; I think we all want a strive for the impossible perfection of what exists, including the AI, more than any new toy.

That's me. It's your toy, you can do whatever you want with it, but that is my vision.

 

[Gelberhund]

1. Survive the beginning. Go to war in late Industrial/early Modern
2. China + Chichen + Freedom
3. SOTL- nothing comes close IMO
4. Close between the Herbalist,Tea Pavilion, and Satrap's Court. When you are playing as Pedro and are surrounded by jungles the Brazilwood camps become OP with the Herbalist (its like 3 food/3 hammers/3 gold/6+ culture). The Tea Pavilion just adds to China. Satrap's Court gets happiness with events and decisions and +3 from Autocracy tenant
5. St. Basils (I easily can pick this and Oracle in the same game to get 2 free policies). Lose the free policy on St Basils
6. China
7. MoMA. Very late and you can only build one
8. Dojo
9. Blechely Park
10. Washington

 

[Gazebo]

I will be honest with you. I will not answer any of the questions, but will tell you what I think the state of the mod is now. I think CBP is heavily suffering from Scope Creep; you know coding, so you obviously know what it means. I think the mod has gone too far away from its elegant, beautiful original intent and to much into adding and adding new features.

The problem of adding and adding new features is that, as you know, you add and add new imbalances. Honestly, at this point, CBP starts to feel as if it is very, very close to a point of no return, after which it will basically become impossible to balance.

I think you should really stop adding features completely, and even consider filtering some of the worst offenders out for the sake of regaining the elegant original intent (BALANCE and fix), and focus ONLY on that from now on. I don't think we need more new features, as cool as they may sound in paper; I think we all want a strive for the impossible perfection of what exists, including the AI, more than any new toy.

That's me. It's your toy, you can do whatever you want with it, but that is my vision.

Corporations were the last new feature added, and that was months ago. Also, this isn't the place for this (did you not read the message I just posted a bit ago?), and, more to the point, why even post this here?

G

 

[Fragamemnon]

I play on Immortal/Deity (when feeling fiesty) , exclusively on standard size and speed and using the No Quitters Pangaea map script. Throwing that out there because someone who plays on Fractal , King, and Epic speed is going to have a very different opinion of things than I will.

1) My favorite early strategy is five/six city progress OR 4 city tradition. I don't like Authority unless I have a start that can get culture from UA/UBs early or has the option for a high octane cultural pantheon like sacred paths or Open Sky. I generally tech pottery, husbandry, trapping into military tech and always make an early play for Temple of Artemis because you need a LOT of food to get things done in the mod.

If I have good faith generation and religion I'll go a pantheon with a lot of buildings-usually culture and gold (helps w/ happiness) in that order. I generally don't enhance until after get a couple of missionaries to establish my religion and almost always go the culture/science spreader belief as my religion rolls out to cities faster than the others (who don't get missionaries in general until after they enhance).

I'm super wary of the AI's obsession for Steel tech beelines and keep a good military around even if it means being poor . I will attack neighbors if they are vulnerable but usually only for reparations, not land. The only exception is America which must be cleansed on sight or they will buy up all your tiles in 10 turns.

I focus on hammers and growth with early buidings and improvements and let the hammers and city size solve the science/gold/cultural problems afterwards. I aggressively get guilds going as soon as I can reasonably do so. I always try to expand a couple of extra times with Pioneers if I can find reasonable island settlments nearby. The goal is just getting to top demographics more than being on top in tech, though I don't want to lag too far behind.

I generally start warring for territory in earnest with artillery because massed three range indirect fire is something the AI is helpless against. Once I kill a couple of AIs I pretend that the rest concede to me usually around the time of corporations because they aren't beating a human with three times the hammers they have no matter what kind of filthy production bonuses they get.

2) OP strategy: Anything with a good terrain UI + city spam.
3) OP Unit: No real opinions here. Probably Pathfinders-they really help you get a head start and can get out of control vs. enemies that are already suffering from being at war. Artillery is the best unit in the game. Second is quinqererme, get a couple of be able to tribute CS on cooldown for at least 100 turns.
4) Forge. You go from horrible production to 20-30 hammers per turn and have cities that can actually function.
5) Temple of Artemis. Growth is everything in this mod. Even production cities that you plan to cap off smaller (and just eat the unhappiness from poor culture/science/money) and spam units out of benefit from it. Most empires want their cities to float between +25 to +40 food per turn in growth, ToA makes that possible without greatly impacting everything else the city needs to do. Runner up is Great Cothon, that thing is filthy.
6) Tie between China and Shoshone.
7) Probably the Hwatcha. You get double fire but only if you don't move in a turn. They are great if you keep them around and upgrade into artillery but not really all that impactful vs. just crossbows or mounted horsemen when they come out.
8) Dojo.
9) Slater Mill. You generally have all the hammers you need at this point and factory tech is just around the corner.
10) Oda feels derpy, he brings the vanilla knife to the CBP gunfight.

 

[DarkZero]

Deity/epic/fractal player here.

1.I build my infrastructure hard in the early game for a trebuchet timing attack attack that either wins me the game or put me so far ahead that it becomes impossible to lose, usually in the civ that is either 1st or 2nd in the score(for the wonders), often the resistance from these wonder whores is on the medium to weak side.
2.Whit my timing attack I have never lost a game, so I gotta to call that OP.
3.All Siege units but catapults but the artillery takes the cake due to indirect fire, they just do so much damage, often times 2, 3 or 4 times the damage of other units, oneshooting cities without defensive buildings, and the AI still has no idea how to use them 100%, leaving them exposed or sometimes attacking units instead of cities whit them.
4.Steam Mill, for reasons already said by other people.
5.No opinion here.
6.China.
7.Berseker, other leaders get double shot ranged units, this guy get an free amphibious, the worst promotion in the game.
8.Jelling stones, what is this? the UA is geared towards war and the unique building is geared towards torism, the anti-synergy is real.
9.Statue of zeus, too weak for normal units, and useless for the already overpowered siege units, the free forge is the only reason to build it.
10.Denmark, he has no UA, his UB takes him to a different direction from it, even in fractal the is no reason to attack from the sea whit land units, the boats are just 2, 3 times stronger, and everyone gets part of the UA whit a tech, no reason to play this guy at all.

 

[Aristos]

Corporations were the last new feature added, and that was months ago. Also, this isn't the place for this (did you not read the message I just posted a bit ago?), and, more to the point, why even post this here?

G

You wanted feedback, this is mine. The overhauled tourism was the last feature added, AFAIK. I told you, it's your toy, you can do whatever you want with it, and we chose to use it or not. But when you ask for feedback, even if you try to frame it with specific questions, any well intended feedback is good.

Any other doubt, refer to my signature.

 

[Gazebo]

You wanted feedback, this is mine. The overhauled tourism was the last feature added, AFAIK. I told you, it's your toy, you can do whatever you want with it, and we chose to use it or not. But when you ask for feedback, even if you try to frame it with specific questions, any well intended feedback is good.

Any other doubt, refer to my signature.

We have different definitions of feature, then as 'feature' implies standalone element to me. Tourism rework was just that - a rework of an existing system to balance it's utility.

Keep the feedback coming! This is very helpful for my addled brain.

G

 

[Aristos]

We have different definitions of feature, then as 'feature' implies standalone element to me. Tourism rework was just that - a rework of an existing system to balance it's utility.

Keep the feedback coming! This is very helpful for my addled brain.

G

Yes, the line dividing new feature from balance is very thin in many cases... in this case, Tourism is a mechanism. Adding many more ways to add tourism is leaning more to the side of new features than it is just balancing, but that's my view. I still think scope creeping is now a real danger for CBP, and I don't want this wonderful mod to become impossible to balance because of that. That's it. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here.

 

[Gazebo]

Yes, the line dividing new feature from balance is very thin in many cases... in this case, Tourism is a mechanism. Adding many more ways to add tourism is leaning more to the side of new features than it is just balancing, but that's my view. I still think scope creeping is now a real danger for CBP, and I don't want this wonderful mod to become impossible to balance because of that. That's it. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here.

No worries - this is getting a little off topic for thread, but my crib sheet for BNW/G&K feature changes and new features when I started...last year(?)... was a bullet point list 3 pages long. It is now empty, and has been since the tourism rework. Yay. Some things may be reworked here and there, but there's never been any unintended 'creep' aside from what I wanted to do originally.

G

 

[Funak]

Your favorite strategy

I'm a big fan of cannon-rushing, alternatively artillery-rushing.

The strategy you think is most OP

I don't know, really, probably picking a strong science-civ and rushing key-techs, science is really as powerful as ever.

The most OP unit in the game (for it's era)

Probably Ship of the Line, the other double attack units aren't far behind however(except the atlatlist, that thing is still garbage)

The most OP building in the game (for it's era)

In a vacuum, probably the Candi, outside of the vacuum it is probably the Seowon. I'm not sure I would call either of the OP however, and there are a lot of buildings with similar strength to the Seowon.

The most OP wonder in the game (for it's era)

Probably The Leaning Tower, some wonders are really crazy on specific places however, Machu Picchu in some cities is bordering on insanity.
The Forbidden Palace also deserves a mention, it is really powerful for the diplo-game.

The most OP leader in the game

I've not played nearly enough with all leaders to say which one is the best. I'll however say that I've never managed to have a bad game with the Shoshone, so I'll go with Pocatello.

The most UP (under-powered) unit in the game (for it's era)

Atlatlist probably, might be something worse, but this is the one that comes to mind.
On the other hand my rage is probably blinding me from all the other ones with effects that doesn't carry over when upgraded. I hate them all.

For non unique units, the change to early planes pretty much killed them in my mind, even with the imperialism range promotion they still can't reach outside your territory. To me they just don't exist anymore.

The most UP building in the game (for it's era)

I'm really not a big fan of how the Tabya turned out. But then again the Bazaar and the Jelling stones are pretty horrible as well.

For non-unique buildings I'm really not a huge fan of the current Amphitheatre, it takes forever to build and does nothing.

The most UP wonder in the game (for it's era)

The Doge's Palace for sure, it is still a big blob of shame upon the UB name.

Non-unique wonders I'd probably go with the Bletchey Park (gives you a building that you probably have at that time) or Terracotta Army.

The most UP leader in the game

Just like in the OP leader field I really don't feel like I've played enough to give an accurate assessment, but it is probably Enrico Dandolo. Other leaders have problems, but Enrico have an awful UB and a UU that should probably just have been included in his UA.


Since it never got mentioned here(it being an improvement) I'm going to give a special shout-out to the Feitora: 'I still really really really hate you!'.

 

[hokath]

Standard communitas +2 more players than normal
1. Tradition Tourism Turtle
2. I'm not a very aggressive player, and I haven't found any strategy that I've tried OP. It sounds like people using warmongering strategies are doing a higher difficulty level than me, so perhaps those things need a look at
3. No strong contender for me. In their defence, I find Berserkers terrifying in the hands of AI Denmark
4. Forge. 1 or 2 iron and you're laughing
5. Probably ToA, so good all game long.
6. China. bith is crazy, always in the lead.
7. Marines are a bit rubbish. I might give them "ignores terrain costs" or something to further differentiate them from infantry. At the moment paratroopers are always better for pillaging imo.
8. All the buildings are pretty good! I think maybe the amphitheatre is the weakest for its era. I always have the choice between it and the coliseum it seems. Sometimes I will start building them when I get that one policy in aesthetics but otherwise they always wait until they are cheaper an era or two on. Honourable mention to MoMA, I get your explanation of why it fits, but I still want my wild west Saloon
9. Before the last update I would have said something like Notre Dame. Now probably one of the late ones like Slater Mill. But then I usually seem to have plenty of coal on my maps.
10. Well... Most civs are excellent. A few are clearly lower tier.

• Japan is coherent, dojo not weak imo, but the UA could be a bit more va-va-voom
• Denmark feels the weakest to play. The Jelling Stones are great, but have zero synergy with the UA and the UU. The UA is fairly bland, and I would recommend a re-imagining here. I think some kind of Poetic Edda war/culture/writer combo could be cool, tying together the UB and UU without having to change them.
• Babylon bares mentioning because I don't feel they do the whole science thing very well. Ethiopia's UA completely obliterates them in techs it seems. Trying to compete with that is never going to be balanced in a million years. I suggest something like, "UA: whenever you birth a great scientist, also birth a great engineer" something crazy. Their UB and UU come early, but don't do anything to catapult you ahead - as the vanilla academy does - this needs to be addressed.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

2. Early Rush and Boom. Having 2 Player's worth of land is really nice and gets a strong foot in being able to conquer you other neighbors. Even if you do feel the pain of having more Cities, the Production powerhouse of a Large Empire is totally worth it.

3. Berserkers are really good at taking any neighbors. They have 3 Move and are available just after Swords.

Slingers seem good on paper: 2 Attacks and a chance to withdraw from Melle

4. Ger or Siege Foundry

5. St. Basil's looks better than most Religion wonders. Maybe I just don't know the difference between the Wonder and the Founder Belief.

7. Panzers aren't worth a UU slot for what they provide: 114% CS and +1 Move

10. Venice, because of the change to building Purchases

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I feel *unqualified* to answer these questions, honestly. Everything is new and shiny and fun and I'm just really enjoying the mod and trying to find the best way to navigate emperor. With that in mind, here's my thoughts.

1. Your favorite strategy
As China, take tradition for early and more frequent GP. Settle a few incredibly robust cities, and use great merchants and great artists to keep as much uptime as possible on the growth buff. Go imperialism if you're snowballed enough that conquering could secure the win, or in other cases, rationalism. Autocracy and Freedom are both valid in my experience, but I have not tried order in several patches.

2. The strategy you think is most OP
Honestly, I have not found a way to game the system. Egypt lucking out on marble and stone creates some wicked scenarios, more because of early production securing a strong infrastructure than wonder gobbling, but that's not really a strategy.

3. The most OP unit in the game (for it's era)
Honestly? The Barbarian Hand-Axe. I almost always need two or three units to deal with one, and its never worth trying to defend a city from one early game. It's a spear-man that doesn't take damage when it attacks you, essentially, and when it gets the barb move buffs, it's ridiculously strong.

The early generic elephants seem a touch powerful to me, as well. If I have elephants, I can delay swords for a very long time--spearmen just don't hurt them enough. Bonus if I find horses, since they upgrade handily into... uh... name escapes me. Cavaliers? The plate-mail horsemen.

4. The most OP building in the game (for it's era)
I'm in love with rushing all the growth buildings, but that's because I have a China boner at the moment.

5. The most OP wonder in the game (for it's era)
The Great Wall, though the AI only seems to put it to good use from sheer luck. I think adding a wall to every city (or perhaps free walls within X tiles of capital) and making the borders of the civ who builds it act as a river when crossing it would make more sense and be less of a PITA while being still very valuable.

6. The most OP leader in the game
Shaka into the AI. Maya into other humans.

7. The most UP (under-powered) unit in the game (for it's era)
All the units I've seen (I don't manage to keep a game alive into tanks, robots, etc -- either won or lost by then) seem to hold their own. I dislike chariot archers, but am not sure if that's taste or balance. It holds then that I think Egypt's ch. archers are the weakest UU, even with their very very interesting promotion.

8. The most UP building in the game (for it's era)
Libraries / Universities. Rushing steel almost always seems more beneficial. I usually take them an era late, unless my production is fantastic. There are too many other ways to keep up in science, and not having pikes or the equivalent is just a way to give other players free cities.)

Can I take a moment here to call your attention to the village tile improvement? I think the herbalist becomes relevant if forests become a place to add villages. Otherwise, clearing everything for farmlands and mines is simply superior. If I'm wrong, correct me, but using forests and villages has never super worked for me.

9. The most UP wonder in the game (for it's era)
The hanging gardens. I ignore it when I go tradition. The AI always gets it, and I never miss it. Petra gives the same bonus, basically -- free six food to my capital, but with the benefit of adding a permanent trade route and gold on the ground. Maybe the Hanging Gardens could add science to forests or something? Or heck, another free trade route. If it's so beautiful, people would wanna come see it. YMMV.

10. The most UP leader in the game
The Ottomon's UA is a bit strange to me. The numbers he gets from traderoutes don't seem very big considering how risky they are. I really want to like it, but I also wasn't nearly as well-informed about the mod as I am now last time I tried them.

So, I play the CBP with two friends in multiplayer. I'm going to post on their behalfs, since they dislike fora.

 

[Gangrin]

Huge Communitas Epic speed
0) I tend to favor sea-faring a bit too much so many popular tactics like artillery spam does not ring a bell with me, so take my observations with this in mind
1) Military: Authority=> Piety => Imperialism and start endless wars with ironclad-cruiser combo
Non-military: Tradition=>Piety=>Rationalism or Progress=> Piety => Industry. I tend to win culturally regardless of what do i do (science/diplo/cult).
2) It vastly depends on your leader, but generally speaking Progress-Industry combo is nuts
3) Ship of the Line, Chu-ko-nu and Hwacha. Double ranged attacks at birth? Yes, please
4) I don't play Ottomans a lot but if what i read is real (+50% prod to siege units construction) this is bonkers. Steam mill is hilarious, just as Ethiopian Stela
5) Forbidden palace and Great Lighthouse (remember, i favor sea a little too much)
6) Ethiopia and Korea. China a bit behind
7) This is a tough one. I am torn between Maori, Atlatlist and Berserker (Yay, i got Amphib promo! Too bad Songhai have entire civilization with it)
8) Dojo. If you are lucky, you have like +2 culture in a city. More likely 0-1. From end of Medieval era building. Tenets of Bushido are nice, but tbh this bonus should be applied from turn 1 to all military units. Too powerful? Should i remind you of Adolf's UA? Jelling stones are meh as well.
9) Bletchey Park
10) Harald, Oda and surprisingly Babylon - not because he is THAT bad, it's just that Korea does everything better than our old Mesopotamian friend.

 

[Lucas A.]

Your favorite strategy

Making a tall civilization (usually max 3 cities), avoinding wars and focusing in Wonders and Great Peoples.

The strategy you think is most OP

Looks like warmonger or Cultural/Tall.

The most OP building in the game (for it's era)

Some of them: Tea Pavilion (+0,5 food and +0,25 science per pop), Herbalist, Stele.

The most OP wonder in the game (for it's era)

St. Basil probably is the one. Leaning Tower of Pisa, Empire State, Colossus and Georgio Ar. are really powerful too. Sometimes the AI always rushing for Leaning Tower is a bit annoying.
The ones that gives free buildings from further techs are very interesting (Hanging Gardens, The Motherland Calls, Slatter Mill).

The most UP wonder in the game (for it's era)

The ones that gives you a free building of one or two previous era are kind non-strategic. So Summer Palace probably is the most up wonder, I think if you can choose build this one or Roman Forum at any stage of the game you'll never choose this one. Blechery Park is weak, but it is the only wonder that gives you extra spies.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

My friend Lynn:

Your favorite strategy
Going tall, oriented towards science as a pacifist.

The strategy you think is most OP
"I don't know. Nothing stands out as OP to me. I feel like they all have weaknesses. I guess maybe rushing science buildings? Since I seem to be able to survive warmongers by rushing tech, I guess that works really well."

The most OP unit in the game (for it's era)
"Probably the barbarian hand-axe." (That thing is just loathed in our office.)

The most OP building in the game (for it's era)
Monasteries. It's just a huge spread of stats, plus a specialist, and it's very cheap. It's like getting a free great barrier reef on your city tile. I'm not saying I object to them, just that I think they're the strongest building I can think of right now.

The most OP wonder in the game (for it's era)
The Great Cothon. The free trade routes are absurdly powerful.

The most OP leader in the game
"...but I don't want them to nerf Dido. Don't type that." The free gold and early harbors, plus the Cothon, are all just really strong.

The most UP (under-powered) unit in the game (for it's era)
"I don't have much use for any of the siege units, but I don't war offensively very often. Military City States love to give me catapults and trebuchets, and I always just move them out of the way."

The most UP building in the game (for it's era)
Buildings that don't affect city happiness in general. I am specifically thinking of constabularies and police stations. Nothing ever seems to get rid of crime problems.

The most UP wonder in the game (for it's era)
"Terracotta army."

The most UP leader in the game
"There's a lot of them that I find lacklustre or that don't do what I want them to do, but that doesn't make them underpowered. I've never had much luck with Russia, but that could have been user error."


My friend Zach:

Your favorite strategy
Early conquest for a vicious land-grab, and then focus on infrastructure and population. A good enough early game gives you all the options on earth.

The strategy you think is most OP
"Shaka."
"That's a civ, not a strategy, Zach."
"Fine. I change my answer to Murder Everything."

The most OP unit in the game (for it's era)
Atlatist & Chu-ko-no.

The most OP building in the game (for it's era)
Stoneworks.

The most OP wonder in the game (for it's era)
I genuinely don't know. I'm almost inclined to say Borobodur. Spreading your religion is hard and expensive, so Borobodur is always welcome.

The most OP leader in the game
Shaka.
Or China.

The most UP (under-powered) unit in the game (for it's era)
Did slingers get buffed? If so, I guess the Egyptian chariot archer comes to mind.

The most UP building in the game (for it's era)
It sure as ain't walls. Um. Constabularies are worthless. It doesn't stop spies in any meaningful way. I'll end up with a spy an and a constabulary in the same city, and I'll still be leaking tech and other goodies out of that city like a pinata.

The most UP wonder in the game (for it's era)
The Great Wall. It's only useful in wide open, flat settings, and there is never enough production there to get it first.

The most UP leader in the game
Theodora and Boadicea both spring to mind. Maybe I just don't know how to exploit religions.

 

[albie_123]

I will be honest with you. I will not answer any of the questions, but will tell you what I think the state of the mod is now. I think CBP is heavily suffering from Scope Creep; you know coding, so you obviously know what it means. I think the mod has gone too far away from its elegant, beautiful original intent and to much into adding and adding new features...

...That's me. It's your toy, you can do whatever you want with it, but that is my vision.

I know you just said that this post didn't belong here, but considering it is identical to my feelings on the mod as of now (remarkably identical, actually), I'm going to reiterate it.

 

[callmewoof]

1. Monitor my closest neighbor(s) for a chance to steal a settler, usually with my scout, even at the cost of exploration.
2. Get the Order Ideology, research the bottom tiers of Modern, take the 2 free techs tennant and instantly boost to Mechanized Infantry. Enjoy your no-resource units steamrolling the world.
3. The Byzantine's horsey-unit. Cataphract? It's almost a Knight, cheaper, and dear god it gets defensive terrain bonuses.
4. Steam Mill. I've talked about this to death, but it's so stupid OP that it's stupid!
5. Slater Mill. Boosts your production in the city more than any single building/wonder in the game (if you combine the wonder + its free factory). That free coal is two harbors asap, or save for factories. You're never swimming in Coal until you conquer the world. Also saves you 4/gpt so you could say it gives +4 gold, sorta.
6. THE DUTCH. A UA that gives you 1,000 culture per turn? Why thank you. I get 3-15-more gpt for giving you my luxury for nothing, or in a bad deal? You want to give me 1 gpt for my luxury because you hate me? I'll take that and 15 or more extra thanks! Dutch have access to more policies than any other civ in the game, including Poland.
7. I don't know. Probably whoever has a UU warrior. Those are replaced so quick, and you'll almost never wage a war that you can win. Dunno.
8. Walls of Babylon. Yeah, they're cool. But they're walls. Walls. City walls. ZzZZzzZzzzz
9. The "missionaries spread 3x times instead of 2x times and you get 3 free missionaries". No.
10. I think it's the Ottomans? Whoever's got the "you get bonus yields whenever a traderoute completes". TRs take for freaking-ever to complete, they can get raided, and if it gets raided 1 turn before the route completes, you get squat. An AI declares war on you cause they're a jerk or got bribed? Bye bye caravans (even if you diversify civs). And when it DOES complete? So small you won't even notice.