A cheater?

Matrix

CFC Dinosaur
Retired Moderator
Joined
Oct 28, 2000
Messages
5,521
Location
Tampere, Finland
Check out this savegame of the GOTM09.

Retire and look at the history. Look at how fast he's growing. If you ask me that's simply impossible. What do you think?

Edit: Should be "Kouznetsov" instead of "Kournetsov".
 

Attachments

I have never seen anything like it. Sad that someone just have to cheat.
At first i thought he might use the whip under depoism but then again how could he attack on the same time considering his cities have to be on 1 most of the time because of his massive settler building. He was also able to build wonders at the same time and research very fast. At the end he was expanding even faster and he had republic. Under republic you cant rushwhip and he could never afford so many settlers. I also noticed his many big cities.. where did all the settlers came from. A last thing was that he had a big problem with money. That meant he could´nt research fast and he did not earn alot of money.
Conclusion: this is a cheater and he should be banned from GOTM :(
thumbs down :ar15: :sad: :rocket:
 
Hmm, I´d say NOT possible. I only played until 10AD in that GOTM, no more time, but my plan was similar, early conquest. I researched directly to the Great Lighthouse, only 3 or 4 settlers left my capitol before starting the project. Yet, it was completed almost 1000years later. While his cities still where churning out settlers at an enormous rate.

Ok, let´s do some simple calculation:
Thebes has excess food of 3 under despotism, no matter any irrigation. This means it needs 7 turns to grow. So, it can produce a settler after a minimum of 14 turns. Would be 700years. So, 3300BC.
Let´s assume the first 2 cities being settlers from huts (Memphis, Heliopolis). Then Elephantine would be the first that can be produced by a "real" settler. The next settler from Thebes can then be produced only much later.
The other 2 cities have excess of 2 food, needing 10 turns to grow =20 for a settler. So, they can produce a settler earliest after 1000 years after founding.
But after Elephantine, 4 cities are made within 5 turns. Ok, let´s assume all huts on the continent (5 IIRC) give a settler, which is almost impossible.
Now all hut settlers are used, we look at the next time interval, the next 7 turns. We are now 28 turns after start,
Until that time Thebes can produce a max of 2 settlers (14 turns to reach size 3). The other 2 earliest founded cities can produce only 1 each. So we have a max of 5 settlers, founding 6!!! cities in that time. Let´s assume further, the initial worker is added to another city, we have 3 more to choose from. Then we get the sixth worker, although I doubt that´s possible.
Now, only 2 cities, the last 2 founded earlier, are capable of producing a settler during the NEXT 5 turns, where 3!!! cities are founded. Now we have no possibility of achieving that, at least IMO. :eek:
Now, these calculations did not take into account that Thebes can´t reach the 3 food tile until 10 turns later!!!
And not too mention that it´s IMPOSSIBLE to reach 2 huts with the worker until 3500BC. :rolleyes:

Now, this only took into account the food needed.
He also researched a lot during that time, build military units to explore and even accumulated the shields needed for a Great Wonder. :crazyeye:

I say it´s impossible. Especially when looking at how the game develops further. A good way to achieve such a growth rate is to let a settler only take away ONE pop point. :lol:

But I also say, let´s wait and hope for a reply from the player in question. And to take a look at earlier achievements. His early finishes are spectacular and he won several awards with them. So there should be a closer investigation.
:D
 
Did you notice how slow the German and American growth was. He got a quick jump on the Japanese and Persians, but even while he was growing on their home islands, the Germans only had 2 cities and the Americans 3 when he arrived around 500 BC.

Just watching him grow on the home island was amazing. He had 8 cities before anybody else had 4. There isn't that much luck available even if every hut was a settler, he couldn't build them that fast and still build the wonders. Either reducing the settler population penalty or increasing the food available might allow for this growth, but there's no way to accomplish this legally.

The only question I have is WHY????


:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
I think the Lighthouse really shows alot about this game. Memphis built the Lighthouse 32 turns after it was founded. It would have had to produce almost 10 shields a turn, average, to produce the 300 shields required to build. At the finish of the game you cannot get that city to produce ten shields when it is a size 6 city so how it was done from the time it was size one is a pretty good job!!!! Now you could say it was produced by a Great Leader, except there is no evidence that any troops had landed over by Japan yet, to the contrary the Japanese are expanding to the coast about that time. Not to mention that this city produced a temple 2 turns after it was founded or a library 4 turns after it produced the wonder. [There are lots of these miracle builds in the game.]

One other question, how many other people that played GOTM09 had 3 other civs that only had 1 city at 2000BC. This was an Emperor game, the AI expands a bit faster than that at this level.
 
Sorry to say it but what i can see he have cheated in other games too(well in the deity game).
He created his second city in 3500 BC but allready in 3000 BC he completed the collosus in that very same city.
His third city was created in 3300 BC and in 2430 BC he created the pyramids in that town. In 2230 BC he created the Oracle in the same town. All this was before he went to war.... Is that possible without a leader??
1475 BC great library created, 1425 BC great lighthouse created, 1150 BC hanging gardens created.
How the hell can he place many cities, make many wonders and conquer alot in the same time?
 
Ok, I think it's quite obvious. :)

I've asked him to read this thread and respond. Till then he will be deleted and banned from the GOTM.
:arrow:
 
This game is flat-out absurd. It is not physically possible to win a conquest victory on a LARGE, ARCHIPELAGO map on Emperor in 130BC!!! The most damning evidence is not even the player's (impossibly) fast growth, but the slowed growth of the AI civs. The Amercians, Aztecs, and Germans still have not founded a second city in 1500BC. That would NEVER happen in an Emperor game; I've played enough to know. And completing the Great Library in 2070BC? Please. Even in the most rampant 1.21f Deity games I never saw a wonder built before 2000BC, and the first wonder was always the Pyramids or the Oracle, never the Library. Clearly a cheated game.

But I don't understand the motivation here. I mean, why cheat in the first place, but if you're going to cheat at least make it so it's plausible! Did this player honestly think a 130BC CONQUEST victory would go unchecked? Well it's a good thing though, since now those other extremely early finishes in GOTM7 and 8 can be checked as well (that 720AD conquest in GOTM8 especially is a little fishy)
 
Did you take out his results from his other games, too?
Cause it is unlikely that if he has cheated this rampantly in this game, that he has not cheated in the other ones.
I still see him in the results, but it should be deleted, at least temporarely, until he can give an explanation.
:D
 
Clear, it is possible, I now the trick, but I won't tell you :lol:
 
I'm sorry to say this, but when I opened up the savegame of this player from GOTM7, it's clear that there was cheating going on in that game, as well. Every wonder built by the player (NEVER would happen on Deity) at outrageously early dates: the Colossus in 3000BC (at which time he has 3 cities - not likely), Pyramids in 2430BC, Oracle in 2190BC, Great Library in 1475BC, Lighthouse in the SAME CITY in 1400BC (!) It's also rather... suspicious that this player was at war with Russia, Germany, Persia, Rome, and England simultaneously and was advancing on all fronts (in a Deity game, no less). Open up the game and check it out for yourself, if you don't believe me. I suspect something similar in GOTM8, though no savegame has been posted for that yet. It's very disappointing that someone would think they have to cheat in the GOTM. :(
 
Why would someone cheat in game where the only prize for winning in the honour of the win?
 
Originally posted by flexo
Why would someone cheat in game where the only prize for winning in the honour of the win?
simple answer: Because he can....
He´s probaly a kid who want to have other think that he is very good at this game, and therefore taking steps toward wrecking this tournament by cheating.
when you play an online tournaments/games(no matter what game it is) there will allways be cheaters i guess :(
 
I haven't actually looked at the savegame, but from what the others have posted, it does look like he/she probably cheated.

However, shouldn't it be "innocent until proven guilty"?? It is useful to post the save to get lots of input into whether he/she has cheated, but couldn't it have been posted without the username?

It could be posted later when the person is found to have cheated.
 
Take a look at the demo and there's your proof right there. That's blatant cheating. If matrix wasn't 100% sure he cheated he wouldn't have posted his name i think.
 
I just returned from my buisiness trip and could not end my GOTM9 though I was so close to win.:( I send to Valeri Kouznetsov email written on russian language. May be it help us to know the real state of things. May be it was unknown bug?
 
If you watch the replay of this game there is an incredibly fast build out. Here are the first 10 cities and their founding date:

Thebes 4000 bc
Memphis 3650 bc
Heliopolis 3550 bc
Elephantine 3200 bc
Alexandria 3150 bc
Pi-Ramesses 3050 bc
Giza 3000 bc
Byblos 2950 bc
El-Amarna 2800 bc
Hieraconpolis 2750 bc

In this start location, the absolute fastest Thebes can hit size three and produce the first settler is 3150. The only bonus square at the start location is the cow and it isn't available until your borders expand. Even if a settler was built at 3150, the earliest possible city it could settle is the 7th city Giza in 3000 bc and this is if there was a road built right to and on the city location.

The only other possibility is settlers from huts. In this game there are 4 huts on the start and some island are not reachable for the first 6 cities. Clearly these cities were not founded by settlers from huts.

This player definitly cheated.
 
I have not reviewed the information yet, but I cannot see how they could have gotten so many cities so quickly. I consider myself to be fairly quick at expanding early in the game, and I would be hard pressed to have 10 cities by 1500 BC let alone 2750BC!!!!

Trying to maintain a fair and unbalanced view point though, has any one heard from the accused? It would be nice to get an honest answer as to what happened. Also I don't think it was totaly fair to post the name until after it had been evaluated that it was indeed cheating. (although I am inclined to say that I can't see any other way they could have achieved these results in that timeframe!!!!):mad:
 
Back
Top Bottom