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A civilization that cannot declare War

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by halfhalfharp, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Here, inspired by the original idea of @Disgustipated, I present you all the

    Papal State



    (Note: I borrow the pictures from the papal states MOD in Civ V, created by JFD and his team. I do not own any of the artworks.)

    Leader: Pope Innocentius III


    Civilization ability: May Thy Kingdom Come


    -Cannot declare a war nor conquer cities.

    -The city center of the capital functions as a holy site :c5faith:from the beginning. When a majority of citizens in another civ follow his religion, the very first city converted will be added into Papal State territory. This cannot affect city states.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Leader ability: Secular Authority

    -He can use faith to levy units from city states. If followers of his religion become majority in another civ, they will instantly become allies, regardless of the technology levels. His allies will automatically join the war if Innocentius III is attacked. This alliance last until the majority of followers are no longer his religion’s. This can affect city state suzerain-ship, regardless of the envoy system.

    -His allies enjoy +1 amenities:c5happy: in every city following Innocentius’ religion, and +5 combat strength:c5war: in fighting off civs following another religion.

    -Converting the holy city of another religion will get an immediate war declaration if the conversion of that city does not make his religion dominant.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unique Building: Basilica

    -Replaces temple. Gives +1 gold:c5gold: per 2 followers of that religion. Has 3 slots for holding relics:tourism:.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unique units: Cardinal

    -Replaces apostles. They get a certain promotion when they stand on a certain district at the end of the turn. This can happen only once.

    -If a cardinal dies in theological combat besides a missionary, that missionary will become a cardinal, healing to full health.

    On a campus: free Debater promotion

    On a theater district: Translator promotion

    On a commerce club: Indulgence vender promotion

    On an encampment: free Chaplain promotion

    On a holy site: Martyr promotion
    (after the unit stands on the holy site again if it was spawn there)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Suitable Victory route:

    -Religious victory is of no doubt the first choice.

    -Domination victory is also miraculously a good choice. Although he cannot conquer cities directly, he can seize control of a capital through a careful planning of converting cities. Ever shall he encounter resistance, he can use his city states allies to protect his holy lands with ease. Also, his forced alliance will fence off a lot of threats.

    -Cultural victory is possible thanks to the relic production of his UU (which needs some planning) and slots in his UB.

    -Science is not especially encouraged in his kit. But his strength in gaining scientific city states will also give him some edge as a back up plan.

    Counter the Pope, step by step guide:
    -As religious player: Build a lot of missionaries, inquisitors and apostles to defend your own holy cities. Or try to convert his cities. He is not especially strong at faith production. Phillip II does an excellent job here, in both warring and conversion.


    -Non religious player: Meet him as early as you can on the battlefield, before he can gain any allies. Early conquerors like Bro-Gilgamesh can do well.

    -Try prevent him from converting city states or prepare to conquer them all. Frederick Barbarossa (who was raised under Innocentius III himself, how ironic) was surprisingly good against the Pope.

    -Try to build cities behind a religious civ to avoid being completely converted.

    -If you find yourself ally to the Pope. That means you are shut from domination victory. You should switch to another victory route immediately.

    -If you can do nothing of the above list. You should pray for God's sake in defeating him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  2. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    This looks extremely hard to play, but I like it.

    I especially like that the Basilica gives gold. Any Vatican civ should be one of the richest in the game, just like in real life.
     
  3. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    This doesn't feel right though as an ability for them, considering how many wars and conflicts they have been involved in through history ~ notably, initiating the Crusades and the Reformation. Historically speaking they were often involved in wars and conflicts, at times organizing the wars but getting others to do the actual fighting, but also getting involved more directly during times of religious division, so truth be told it would be an inaccurate depiction to make them look like they don't get involved in wars as a civ. Really, their history is actually quite violent. Besides this, they are the very essence of a CS. It's difficult enough thinking of how Venice would work as a one-city civ under the new mechanics, so this doesn't seem likely to begin with.
     
  4. Nalain

    Nalain Chieftain

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    I don't think a specific religious civ is a good idea, as it would be too controversial. Why not doing it with a country like Swiss ? There is a lot of matter to do with.

    About the civ itself, i don't like that much the imposed alliance of the civ leader. If theory sounds good, I think that would more bug players than anything else.
     
    Greywulf likes this.
  5. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    I agree. Besides, the Swiss civ seems more fitting for this specific ability.
     
  6. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Emm... I think the Arabs should carry the same property as a specific religious civ?

    I didnt say that they cannot settle cities, just cant conquer any. So it is not an one-city civ.

    Indeed you are right on the point of accuracy. Its just experimental design to fit a civ that doesn't need to declare war, but let the others fight for it. I cant think of any others except for the papal state that can establish such influence.

    It is true that the church was much involved in the bloodshed. But for most of the crusades, the papal state mainly call for help of other christian powers rather than sending an army on its own. So they were often not directly involved in the wars I suppose.
     
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  7. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Hmm, what about the Indus Valley/Harappan Civilization? Apparently they were especially peaceful, and not involved in wars (and they had more than just one city). They might be a candidate for this idea.
     
  8. Nalain

    Nalain Chieftain

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    Yes, that could, but all isn't about religion in arabs civ.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
    Japper007 likes this.
  9. Japper007

    Japper007 Chieftain

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    There are thousands of years of Arabian history pre-Islam, nomadic Arabian tribes have been documenten since Roman times at least. At that time they didn't even have a shared religion, but rather more a collection of similar and overlapping religious sects like modern Hinduism. The ingame representation is very Islamic Golden Age/Crusaders inspired though but there is far more to the rich Arabian culture and history than just religion! (A fact many Arabs forget themselves as well...)

    The Borgias would disagree on the Vatican only having a stand-offish relation with war;) :lol:
     

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