In CIV III it's one below Deity, the toughest ( in my mind - over the top/not fun playeble). Noble doesn't even exist. What's your point? Playing lower then the highest level is "less noble ? Besides, i say mostly. Meaning, mostly on Empire. Let me add that i played some Deity too, with succes. But to me, it's not a very "fun" level to play; it's too restricted, you have to really iron every detail out etc.etc. and, in the end you are just fighting a to me, cheating AI which get tonloads of bonusses ) Oke, on Emperor the AI still cheats. But atleast that was more playable. And surely i am not a very Mathematecal player, like some calc everything and put in practice. I like to enjoy myself more, instead of translating it all in numbers. That being said, you wouls expect i love Civ 5. Wouldn't you ? Well, i don't. And i don't need math to come to that conclusion.