A direct word to Atari/Firaxis on the Byzantine empire

Xen

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well great, the Byzantines are in, but they, like so many civs, are wrong.

this is only the tip of the iceberg.

many of us loyal devotees of the franchise of civ have had many a grteat expectation for the upcomeing x-pac, and not least amoung them, dare I say first, and foremost in fact, is actual historical accuracy in the game, this is somthing, that you have proved, and are still proving to us, is a subject in which you apperntlly take NO heed in thinking about.

First we find that your appernt choices of civ are...misguided, to say the least, the ONLY two civs trully deserving of being there are the Byzantines, and the Inca, and now, with more info on Byzantium coming out, you show that your ONLY goal was to please fans in name, not form, nor function.

To epitomize your appernt lack of reaserch, i will take the one thing in which i have shown to all to be my subject most dear in terms of this game, the Byzantine empire.

Now first off, i have no dea if my arguments trully influenced your choice in choosing them or not, but regardless of this, I plead you take heed,as I think most here regard me as educated on this empire, and indeed I am, and it is not to late to correct at least this mistake.

it is not that i am wanting to get rid of theodora, keep her if you want your "politcal correctness" that no one actually gives a flying flip about anyway, no even as a schoalr of Byzantium, who knows that ONLY Heraclius I deserves to be the leader of Byzantium can take, but there is one HUGE mistake- the dromon.

the dromon has NO historical presidence for being a unit to represent Byzantium, and to say this is the greates blunder you have yet made in your UU choices is no understaement- even the American, british, and Korean UUs' have something which merits there being there civs UU, and yet the fireship, or "dromon" as you choose to call it (which is not even the right name I remind you, as the Drmons were little more then scouting/anti pirating vesslas)

no the ONLY choice that could even be considerd realisticlly is the cataphract heavey cavalry, after all, how many great admerals do hear of commanding the fireships?-NONE, how many conquests have hinged on the fireship?-NONE, and yet the most important wars of the Byzantine empire were fought on land, and by the Cataphracts- it were they who drove into the heart of persia to destroy that foul empire, and place the true ruler of it on throne (and gain persia as a Byzantine ally i might add) in the name of Heraclius I, it was they who led the Byzantine recounquest of the west, under the great generals Belisarius, and Narse, the greatest generals of the time.It was they who reconqoured the land south of the Danube for Byzantium, not some ship!

I plead with you, for atleast this civ, make a choice based on FUN. and HISTORICLE ACCURACY
 

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not this again... it dosent matter, the Byzantines are in, and that is that, i only await a response from the creation gods of Civ on this one....
 
so cataphracts ARE NOT the uu? ( greek fire DID save the empire at the seige of constanople@700 vs the arabs:) )
 
dosent matter- it wasnt even invented by a Byzantine scholar, just some guy whos invention was refused by the barbarians ;)
 
Well a Greek fire ship has far more claim to being a UNIQUE unit for Byzantine then Cataphracts.

Greek fire ships where almost totally exsclusive to the Byzantines

Cataphracts on the other hand where used by quite a few other civilizations

Claiming the Cataphracts as Unique Byzantine unit would be as silly as making the Knight a unique unit to France or Britian.
 
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well a Greek fire ship has far more claim to being a UNIQUE unit for Byzantine then Cataphracts.

everybody duck:eek:
 
so is claiming the the Hoplite,war elephant, numidian merc., mounted warrior,Legionary (yes, they were copied by other empires...), and most other UUs... they were all copied by other empires, but the nations who used them best are who get to have them as a UU
 
Xen,

First of all, it is a game. No need to get your blood boiling over that.
Second, I had no idea that the Byzantines had the unit you say they had. I only know of the Greek Fire they used. I am also very happy it is in. Do you understand how effective this weapon is?

Third, Xen: This game has almost NO naval UUs!!! It would be great if we had some! :p
 
Originally posted by Xen
so is claiming the the Hoplite,war elephant, numidian merc., mounted warrior,Legionary (yes, they were copied by other empires...), and most other UUs...

Hoplite/Legionaires etc where invented and used by the civs that have them as Unique Units.

Cataphracts on the other hand where used by civilizations BEFORE Byzantine used them. For example Im pretty sure the Persians used Cataphracts in there Battle with Crassus Roman army (Which means if the Cataphracts is a UU it should be a persia UU)
 
Originally posted by Xen

To epitomize your appernt lack of reaserch, i will take the one thing in which i have shown to all to be my subject most dear in terms of this game, the Byzantine empire.

Now first off, i have no dea if my arguments trully influenced your choice in choosing them or not, but regardless of this, I plead you take heed,as I think most here regard me as educated on this empire, and indeed I am, and it is not to late to correct at least this mistake.

Unfortunately, it probably is. Assuming the rumored release date of October 28 is correct.

I plead with you, for atleast this civ, make a choice based on FUN. and HISTORICLE ACCURACY

This is the only reason this choice suprises me (The "Fun" part, that is). Nobody likes ships. Even a ship with Lethal Bombard (very powerful) would be boring. I'm sure this unit will be powerful (unlike Man-O-Wars, which honestly suck), but it is still a ship.

However, Byzantine is in the game. I don't think it was because of your efforts, but because they truely felt they were a deserving civilization.
 
@Civrules

because the navy SUCKS EGGS!

and yes, i do happen to know ho w effective the weapon was, and honestlly say, that in comparison to the Cataphract, there is no contest, the Cataphract is more valuble.

secondlly, just because most people only know about "greek" fire dosent mean they have to use it a a UU for Byzantium when a superior choice exists, both accuracy, and play value wise, after all, how many could say with certainty that Ragnar Lodbrok was the best choice for a Viking leader, or have enven heard of hamurabi...

History need to come first, and foremost!
 
@Dargoth- the legionary seems suspiciouslly close to a gallic warrior when you look at the two (and the Guals had the style first ya know...) and tactics bases on what was done in spartan moras, the greek tactics were based on middle eastern phalaxes invented by the sumerians
 
I also add that the Sarmatians are the inventors of the cataphract, a people whom at best are barbarian tribe in civstanderds
 
I've heard of Hammurabi, but not Lodbrok (which I still can't remember, so I call him the "Viking Leader")

The only problem I could have ever seen with the Cataphract was that Knight replacements have been well overdone. Riders, Sammurai, War Elephants, Ansar Warriors, and Keshiks.

I would have wanted a 5.3.2 Knight, because it fit my play-style, but I guess they wanted a unit that was very unique. I think its good that there are air and navy units. But I wish they were useful. :(
 
Xen, You really don't know about "Greek Fire" do you? ;)

IT CANNOT BE EXTINGUISHED!!! When you pour water it only makes it worse! The ingredients are still not known even today. :) There was NO way to extinguish it then, Xen.
 
BUT IT DOSENT WORK ON LAND BATTLES!
 
Originally posted by Xen
@Dargoth- the legionary seems suspiciouslly close to a gallic warrior when you look at the two (and the Guals had the style first ya know...) and tactics bases on what was done in spartan moras, the greek tactics were based on middle eastern phalaxes invented by the sumerians

Gauls

I disgree, the gauls where mostly unarmoured (unlike the legionaire) and didnt use complex tactics

Greeks

Tactics Ill give you, to a point but I dont recall Greek phalenxs forming "Turtles".

As for weapons the Roman legionaires are diffrent to Hoplites th Romans fought with Gladius, Pilums and a square shield while greeks fought with Longspears/Pike and circular shields.

Legions are a disinctively Roman invention
 
Pilums- adopted from the etruscans

Gladius-adopted from spainerds, but uses a shap more typical to the greek Xiphos 9not to confused the spartan Xiphos)

Scutum (sheild)-adopted from native Italians who had adopted it from the celts

chain mail-adopted from celts
 
It IS a very UNIQUE weapon Xen.

I have really wanted that in the game even before Conquests was announced! :D I am happy to know it is in! :love:
 
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