A direct word to Atari/Firaxis on the Byzantine empire

[Xen]

well, considering that at AD/CE 600(around the reign of Justinin and his expansions), the only states touching the med were
- the Byzantine empire it self
-Berber tribes
-Lombard Principalities of Italy
-the Frankish kingdom
-the Visagothic kingdom of spain

no one can argue with you, the only real naval power out side Byzantiums would have been the occasional Viking...

 

[The Last Conformist]

I hope that about occasional Vikings was a joke? (There weren't any Vikings anywhere till late 8th century.)

The other naval power worth the name during this period was the Vandals, up till Justinians conquest.

Re: the Immortals, I'd like to refer to this webpage 'Immortals'. To summarize; there were, of course, Persian elite units, but apparently none known as the Immortals to the Persians themselves.

 

[StabbingNirvana]

yea, but the vandals were wiped away along with their navy i presume. after the byzantines lost that land it was probably just little fishing boats being sent out into that area

 

[The Last Conformist]

Yep, the Vandals were wiped. But the point is that the Byzantines defeated the Vandals - a naval power - by shipping an army across the Mediterranean, which says something about Byzantine naval power.

Later, after the Caliphate had established itself, the Byzantine navy was kept busy for centuries keeping the communications with the Aegean and Italian territories open.

 

[Xen]

gee....guess a guy cant even get o knock in on the Vikings anymore...

as far as they navy goes, it dosent take a big one to ship your forces across a sea, nor the best one to send messages across it, and while its no usetrying to debate Byzantine siperiority at seas, it is ludicrius to say that the Byzanrines were concernd with it more then a viable trade rout/natural wall, the Byzantines were far more occupied with the north, and eastern land borders then then were with th seas

 

[pawpaw]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Yep, the Vandals were wiped. But the point is that the Byzantines defeated the Vandals - a naval power - by shipping an army across the Mediterranean, which says something about Byzantine naval power.

[/QUOTE
the vandals were a pale shadow of the people who had come to africa @ 400ad, after sacking rome in 450ad you never read of them or their expliots till the byzantine attack--meaning they were at peace with their neighbors for the most part

 

[StabbingNirvana]

maybe the byzantines just built railroads from constantinople to egpyt and just charged them. its a possibility. honest.

 

[Xen]

If the classical Alexandrian era greeks had seen the possibilites for the stram engine they came up with, mabey it would have been...

 

[The Last Conformist]

Hey, I'm not arguing that the Byzantine navy was more important than the army or anything like that. But they did, by medieval mediterranean standards, have a strong navy at least into the Comnenian period.

 

[Xen]

yup, there's no arguing that one

though that hardley means that a naval UU is warrented by the Byzantines...

[color=600f0f]Combined two posts into one. --Padma[/color]

 

[Jon Shafer]

What civs could possibly have a naval UU?

English, okay, obviously. Portuguese and Dutch as well. German U-Boats? Yes, if it weren't for the fact that the Panzer is more famous and there aren't five units that already replace the tank. MAYBE Japan if you want to stretch things. And the Byzantines which have a famous and unique kind of one. Is it the absolute perfect 100% best fit? No, probably not, but it's only a game, and like I said before I'd rather have variety, balance and fun than perfect historical accuracy.

 

[StabbingNirvana]

yea, but youd hardly use the dromon or whatever its called. naval battle only start happening in the modern age. theres probably little skirmishes every now and then but mostly nothing

 

[Jon Shafer]

If used properly naval forces can be devastating, even in the Ancient Era.

 

[yoshi]

If you want ancient naval forces, why not include a Xebec. As I understand it, this type of ship was quite popular in the Mediterranian thoughout the later Ancient Era and Medieval Era. It was used by imperial navies and pirates alike --kind of like the Ford Pinto of ancient ships. That way those of you who want another ancient naval unit can have it, thus removing the need for the Dro...Dor...fire ship and giving Xen his blessed Cataphract (and an end to the spamming...if we're lucky).

Why shouldn't the Cataphract be Byzantiyum's Unique Unit? UUs seem to be picked for their fame and importance to a certain civ --regardless of who used it initially. The Cataphract was used by other civs but as far as I know, it became famous during the various campaigns undertaken by Byzantium, thus the Byzantines get the Cataphract. As for fire ships, weren't they made popular by the Greeks (hense 'Greek Fire')?

If you guys are so concerned about early ships shouldn't you be questioning the 'gods of civ' as to why they gave the Vikings the Berzerk and not a Longboat --not that the Berserk is bad but...I really don't want to go there because I'm tired of talking about units.

To Firaxis/Atari: Please, do us all a favor and give the Byzantium civ the bloody Cataphract --it's worth the effort, trust me!

 

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by yoshi
Why shouldn't the Cataphract be Byzantiyum's Unique Unit? UUs seem to be picked for their fame and importance to a certain civ --regardless of who used it initially. The Cataphract was used by other civs but as far as I know, it became famous during the various campaigns undertaken by Byzantium, thus the Byzantines get the Cataphract. As for fire ships, weren't they made popular by the Greeks (hense 'Greek Fire')?

The Byzantines were the Greeks who used it.

And I'm certain that the UUs or civs aren't going to be changed.

 

[Xen]

perhaps, and then perhaps not... we dont know until its released...

 

[pawpaw]

Originally posted by Trip

The Byzantines were the Greeks who used it.

And I'm certain that the UUs or civs aren't going to be changed.

since the byzantines weren't greek why would we change the uu's

 

[StabbingNirvana]

the byzantines were greek man ... the emperors were romans at first, but then gradually turned greek. im sure the whole roman population didnt flee to greece.

 

[pawpaw]

Originally posted by StabbingNirvana
the byzantines were greek man ... the emperors were romans at first, but then gradually turned greek. im sure the whole roman population didnt flee to greece.

and greece was but a small part of the empire all educated romans spoke greek, it was a sign you were educated

 

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Xen
perhaps, and then perhaps not... we dont know until its released...

Just letting you know so you don't get your hopes up.