A few C3C questions

[Scop]

I just got it, but I've been a bit frusterated at some of the issues I've discovered (and I haven't even noticed the FP/SPHQ bug, since I've hardly gotten to the point where it matters!). So I have some questions:

1. Why do the Inca start with a scout unit, instead of their UU, the Chaqasi Scout? Intentional, or an engine limitation I wonder?

2. Did they ramp the AI trading rate? It seems like it's MUCH harder to keep up with them in science now. Of course, being scared of the new Republic setup probably doesn't help me much (it seems skewed far too much in the direction of the AI now).

Oddly enough, one of my first games was as the Zulu on an archipelago map (Emperor) where something strange happened. Not only did I get Philosophy first, I was the tech leader until Printing Press was discovered; it was then that I fell behind quickly. It just feels much different and more difficult than in PTW.

3. The gratuitous changes to the map generator between variations of Civ 3 have really irked me, especially here. I'm personally getting tired of get ridiculous starts where I'm at the end of a long penisula that probably curves perpendicularly, usually complete with lots of unusable terrain (although nothing has so far beaten my start as the English on PTW where I was at the tip of a desert peninsula, which was connected to a jungle that covered half the land of the game ); or on pangaeas where the AI starts so close to me that I can barely found a city, because they block off all my expansion routes before I can make a single settler.

Has anyone else been unsatisfied with their starts moreso since they got C3C, or have I just been unlucky? Vanilla Civ 3's map gen may have made wonky landmasses, but I liked the starts I got with it much more than in later variations.

4. Can you turn off volcanoes without changing the rules with the scenario editor? As much as I loathe to take out a game feature like this, volcanoes just annoy me to no end.

5. Should I go back to Monarch again while I get used to C3C, or do people feel that would be unnecessary? I hope the latter is the case, because it took a while to finally get Monarch down, and I don't really want to again.

I really want to like C3C, because it has so many cool additions; but I've been really frusterated so far. I haven't won a single game since I've been playing, and with PTW I could at least win some of the time on Emperor. I hope someone can help me figure out why.

 

[Goober]

Originally posted by Scop
I just got it, but I've been a bit frusterated at some of the issues I've discovered (and I haven't even noticed the FP/SPHQ bug, since I've hardly gotten to the point where it matters!). So I have some questions:

1. Why do the Inca start with a scout unit, instead of their UU, the Chaqasi Scout? Intentional, or an engine limitation I wonder?

2. Did they ramp the AI trading rate? It seems like it's MUCH harder to keep up with them in science now. Of course, being scared of the new Republic setup probably doesn't help me much (it seems skewed far too much in the direction of the AI now).

Oddly enough, one of my first games was as the Zulu on an archipelago map (Emperor) where something strange happened. Not only did I get Philosophy first, I was the tech leader until Printing Press was discovered; it was then that I fell behind quickly. It just feels much different and more difficult than in PTW.

3. The gratuitous changes to the map generator between variations of Civ 3 have really irked me, especially here. I'm personally getting tired of get ridiculous starts where I'm at the end of a long penisula that probably curves perpendicularly, usually complete with lots of unusable terrain (although nothing has so far beaten my start as the English on PTW where I was at the tip of a desert peninsula, which was connected to a jungle that covered half the land of the game ); or on pangaeas where the AI starts so close to me that I can barely found a city, because they block off all my expansion routes before I can make a single settler.

Has anyone else been unsatisfied with their starts moreso since they got C3C, or have I just been unlucky? Vanilla Civ 3's map gen may have made wonky landmasses, but I liked the starts I got with it much more than in later variations.

4. Can you turn off volcanoes without changing the rules with the scenario editor? As much as I loathe to take out a game feature like this, volcanoes just annoy me to no end.

5. Should I go back to Monarch again while I get used to C3C, or do people feel that would be unnecessary? I hope the latter is the case, because it took a while to finally get Monarch down, and I don't really want to again.

I really want to like C3C, because it has so many cool additions; but I've been really frusterated so far. I haven't won a single game since I've been playing, and with PTW I could at least win some of the time on Emperor. I hope someone can help me figure out why.

The FP/SPHQ bug I personally haven't noticed, but read all of the many threads on it, apparently the last patch fized it.

1) The Inca start with a scout unit because they are expansionist. Expansionist Civs start with a scout unit.

2) I have noticed this as well. It almost feels as if the AI conspires, you know "you research that tech, and I will research this one, and we shall trade with everyone BUT the human"

3) This is completely random, uness one of the following

a) You have "culturally linked starting location" turned on. This means that all Civs from the same culture group (Europe, Asia, etc.) will start together,

b) You are a seafaring Civ, which always starts right next to ocean,

c) You have "allow cultural conversions" turned on, which generally means that you and the other Civs start a bit closer together, like on the same continet in Continents, etc.

4) Dunno, but I think they look pretty cool

5) I don't think that you would have to. I recently just graduated to Warlord from Chieftain, I find it pretty similar to PTW/C3

This game is a LOT of fun, stick with it. Learn from your mistakes.

 

[wilbill]

1. Sure, it's intentional. Expansionist civs start with a scout.

2. I haven't noticed the AI's trading any more or less than I'm accustomed to (Emperor level generally). I wouldn't let a couple of games worry me too much.

3. Same as #2 - I haven't noticed much difference. I thought i generally got better starts with PTW than Vanilla - go figure. When I get into one of those ruts where every start seems to be desert, tundra, or both with mountains in the middle, I just run through a few restarts until I can see a river and a cow. I like a challenge, but I also like a good start occasionally.

4. I think the only way to turn off the volcanoes is in the editor. If you don't build within 2 squares of them, they won't do you much damage, but the popups do get a little old. I've had a couple of games in which it seemed there were 3 or 4 volcanoes erupting every turn and a couple when I didn't see one erupt at all.

5. I played 3 or 4 incomplete games at Regent just to get the feel of the new civs, units, governments, etc. Then finished a couple at Monarch. I think I'm about ready for Emperor again, but I'm starting to get involved in the Conquests. They're more interesting than I thought they'd be.

Have fun. It does "feel" a little different, but I'm pretty sure it's still Civ3.

 

[Justus II]

1. They start with a regular scout because starting with a Chasqui could be too powerful, allowing you to kill off a neighbor before they had time to defend themselves.

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by Scop
Oddly enough, one of my first games was as the Zulu on an archipelago map (Emperor) where something strange happened. Not only did I get Philosophy first, I was the tech leader until Printing Press was discovered; it was then that I fell behind quickly. It just feels much different and more difficult than in PTW.

I would say that by the time you got printing press, other AI civs discovered the tech allowing to trade contacts (don't remember which one it is, though, but it's around Printing Press in the Tech tree), and kaboom, worldwide AI trade started, leaving you far behind.

 

[USC]

3. Random maps are like a box of chocolates.

...also...

Given a large enough number of CivFanatics posters, the truly random nature of map generation (i.e. the existence of "runs") means that there will probably be at least one poster who encounters a "run" of poor starting positions just after switching to Conquests. And in fact there is, and you are him.

I could joke "move to Vegas," but alas, the chances of your run ending are just as large with each new map as before -- no more, no less. Which doesn't mean, of course, that it won't continue for another 20 maps ;-)

USC

 

[Scop]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Turns out I just had to not let that bad streak get to me and just keep trying. Finally won my first C3C victory as the Mayans; the Sumerians and I had a brutal little early war, which is to be expected when you both have ancient UUs . But I defeated them in the end, and went on to beat Carthage and Korea in the Space Race.

Hopefully I won't have the problems I had last time haunt me again. I redlined Veii's last defender after a streak of bad rolls, then Carthage took it; and the same thing happened with Rome. Had I gotten a good land foothold on that continent, the game would have gone MUCH differently .

Oh yeah, and I think I found a minor exploit that exists in C3C, and likely exists in previous versions as well. I'll post more information when I have it.

 

[Biggles]

I have been away from Civ3 for sometime.

This latest version, Conquests.
Is it a stand alone version?
If not, what do you need installed to make it work, Civ3?

Can you at last, make Scenarios?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Wellcome to CFC, Biggles!

You only need basic CivIII installed to run Conquests. Infact, it includes most of the stuff from the preceeding expansion, PTW, so unless you happen to have to much money laying around, I'd recommend not buying that.

The support for scenario creation is by now quite good. Take a look in the "Completed Scenarios" forum under Creation & Customization to get a feel for what's now possible.

 

[Biggles]

Thanks for the welcome and the info.

I think I will buy it.