A Full Earth Map, With Areas "Resized" To Maximize Game Play

For the most part I did not get clear concise answers to my specific questions posted above. I feel this is most likely because they were embedded in a long post that also included other comments. I admit – I may have missed some answers that were posted in amongst subsequent posts.

I cannot proceed effectively without clear concise answers to those specific questions that are easy to refer to while actually developing the map.

So I'm going to take the liberty of asking them again – posting about each chunk separately with a map of the chunk under consideration, reworded for clarity, in order to make answering the questions simpler, each

The chunks are the names listed in bold in post 34 and posted here again. I emphasize the word “chunk” because each question is about that region considered by itself, not the overall world map. Each chunk is a region that I will work with on its own before assembling them into a whole world and further refining.

Chunks​
(regions for purposes of map construction)
  • Europe
  • Africa
  • India
  • Steppes
  • China
  • Sunda
  • Australia
  • Alaska
  • Greenland
  • N America
  • Caribbean
  • S America
Commentary on the chunks beyond the scope of the specific questions I need answered at this point will only muddy the waters – preventing me from proceeding. Posting answers which include extraneous remarks on other issues will also make proceeding to the initial work much more difficult since I will have to sift through the text to find what is immediately relevant.

What I need is clear concise answers to these specific questions. Everything else under discussion is equally important but - as far as me getting started on practical map-making - follows on from these initial questions. Therefore they need to be answered first.
 
EUROPE

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Where is the Eastern boundary of the Europe chunk?
This specific question is about where to make the division along a North-South line. In other words, where does Europe end and Steppes begin?

At this stage of the process there are no cities. It's just the land and water (including rivers). I need to use geographic features as the limiting boundaries of each and every chunk. So I need the answer to the boundaries of Europe expressed in terms of geographic features rather than cities.

I can think of two possibilities that might make sense for our purposes.
  • The first possibility is a north-south line along the eastern edge of Scandinavia ( roughly the eastern frontier of Finland) down to the area on the eastern shores of the Black Sea.
  • The second possibility is a north-south line from the Urals down to the Caspian Sea.
There are other possibilities of course – these are just the two that occur to me.


For purposes of constructing the map is Anatolia part of the European chunk?
 
SUNDA

hGTOJd.png


Should Borneo & New Guinea be scaled down relative to the rest of Sunda?

The interiors of those islands are mostly mountains and jungles. Making them even smaller in proportion to the whole of Sunda would help with getting the proper scale of Sunda relative to China & Australia.
 
AFRICA

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Is the Arabian Peninsula part of Africa?

I would suggest that it is because it is being reduced in size and proportion for similar reasons.

However, Post #37 specifically states that the Arabian Peninsula is not part of Africa. If it is not, then it becomes part of India, Steppes, Europe, or becomes its own chunk. All of those choices complicate map construction.

Making the Arabian Peninsula part of Europe or Steppes is problematic because neither is really contiguous with the Arabian peninsula. Making it part of India means enlarging part of India's landmass while simultaneously shrinking part of it – much more complex than working with changing the relative proportions of whole chunks.

Making the Arabian Peninsula into a separate chunk of its own creates many issues that simply don't exist if it is part of Africa.
 
N AMERICA

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Is the Northern edge of N America similar to that of Steppes as far as size & truncation?
Should the northern reaches of N America be shrunk along with Alaska & Greenland?
As with Steppes - should there be a seaway across the truncated Northern edge of the map?

yCSsIK.png


Should the whole peninsula of Florida be slightly reduced compared to the eastern seaboard of N America and Caribbean?
 
First off: :eek: :dance: :thanx:

That being "said" ( :D ) plainly, no two rectangular maps of the Earth can differ, wildly. My view is that the main areas used for game play can be "distorted" insofar as they approximately retain a 1:1 ratio to each other. These areas are:
  • Europe (see below.)
  • The Indian sub-continent.
  • East Asia (you know far more about Asian history than I, so I'll leave its western boundary to you, recalling: (a) my belief that it should be "rotated" counter-clockwise, so (b) it takes up as much of the "dead space" of middle Eurasia.)
  • The Caribbean.
  • North America, east of the Mississippi, and changing map scale, as you see fit, including multiple times, up to Hudson Bay.
Plainly, I see no reason why there shouldn't be "cartographic liberty" right alongside "artistic liberty." Accordingly, answering your questions -

Blue Monkey said:
Where is the Eastern boundary of the Europe chunk? / For purposes of constructing the map is Anatolia part of the European chunk?
Click to expand...

"Europe" should be redefined, as:
  • Including Anatolia.
  • Including the full Mediterranean.
  • "Cut off" (as with the rest of the map) at the Artic circle, with "cartographic liberty" to allow ships to transit the northernmost part of the Scandinavian peninsula.
  • Moscow (I think) would be the best, Easternmost part of Europe - We can call it, "Western Eurasia" if you'd like, although including the full Med ... :think:
This is what the self "Village Gfx Idiot" has come up with:

BRUCE NEW - EUROPE -V1.jpg


Note that "carto-artistic" liberty can be taken, right away, by "compressing" the eastern part of the Black Sea.

Now - Africa. We know that we can only increase some areas by shrinking others. No military campaign has ever been conducted across Africa, with the obvious exception already mentioned, and "South Africa." I believe that Resources can be "correctly" handled like this:
  • Resources can only be one the coast, or one Tile inland.
  • If on the coast, that tile and one to either side of it should be "passable" to land units.
  • If one Tile inland, then its Tile, one to either side, and 3 on the coast itself, directly adjacent to the others.
This is a semblance -

NEW - EUROPE & AFRICA.jpg


My POV is that the Arabian Peninsula and the Horn Of Africa can be dramatically compressed: the Arabian Peninsula can (recall every caveat I've made) be as small as 3 Tiles by 3 Tiles, with a single Oil Resource in the middle.

I have the rest of the world approximated in the same way, but I'll await your feedback on this - And I think having many more people give input would be great. The best way I can think of, to begin with, would be (with any and all apologies, if need be!) -

@AnthonyBoscia @Ares de Borg @Civinator @Delta_Strife @Gojira54 @jagdgeschwader @Quintillus @ronning @Tee Kay @Vuldacon @waarzawa @WildWeazel

- And, once again, my sincerest apologies is I've needlessly troubled anyone. You've all done either great graphic work in general, or have actually made Earth maps yourselves. Likewise, any recommendations for "rude invites" would be great.

-:Dz

PS - @Nanuk - My apologies for missing your name here!
 
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Here's what I meant by "rotating" East Asia, counterclockwise, vs. South Asia, with Sunda as the "hinge." Note:
  • Any and every possibility of where East Asia's westward limit is becomes available, insofar as Blocking Terrain severely limits access to the Khyber Pass.
  • Sunda and Australia are sized as best suits game play.
NEW SOUTH & EAST ASIA - V1.jpg


Further note that this entire "agglomeration" can itself be rotated further counterclockwise, if that's helpful.
 
Ozy... I have read again this entire Thread and still am Not quite sure what specific criteria You want taken into consideration to make the New World Map :confused:
I don't need to know anything other than the bottom line of what you want understood in order to help answer any questions regarding the New World Map.
... straight foreword, simple statements without explanations would allow me to focus my thoughts here :)
 
After a couple of hours of careful rereading of several posts, and advice from another member I've figured out that the question of Europe and part of the question of N America have been answered.
  • Europe ends at a north-south line from Scandinavia to the Black Sea.
  • Anatolia is part of Europe.
  • The northern edge of the map is landlocked across Steppes and also across N America
The rest remain unanswered so far.
 
I already understand a lot of the theoretical ideas being posted regarding the overall map. Having those reiterated or expanded at this point does not help me get the map making started. It's exactly like distracting a runner in the starting blocks by trying to talk to him about shoe design. Wrong focus, wrong time.

Talking about specifics of what to do with smaller regional features is completely distracting at this point. It's like telling the relay runner waiting for the starting gun how you want him to retie his shoelaces after the first lap. Wrong time, wrong focus.

All of us who have devoted ourselves to C3 C&C are very good at producing something worth showing whoever we're making it for once we have the appropriate guidelines.

K.I.S.S.

I think you'll be surprised how quickly there's a roughed-out map and biq for all of us to work with once I have these very few clear-cut answers.
 
@Ozymandias Here's the “executive decision” quiz:

Should Borneo & New Guinea be scaled down relative to the rest of Sunda?
( ) Yes ( ) No

Is the Arabian Peninsula part of Africa?
( ) Yes ( ) No

Should the whole peninsula of Florida be slightly reduced compared to the eastern seaboard of N America and Caribbean?
( ) Yes ( ) No

How far does Alaska extend to the South and East?
( ) East to the Rockies and South to Vancouver Island
( ) Not as far as that
 
Vuldacon said:
Ozy... I have read again this entire Thread and still am Not quite sure what specific criteria You want taken into consideration to make the New World Map :confused:
I don't need to know anything other than the bottom line of what you want understood in order to help answer any questions regarding the New World Map.
... straight foreword, simple statements without explanations would allow me to focus my thoughts here :)
Click to expand...

It's meant for general use -

Any rectangular map of the Earth winds up making very important places like Europe tiny. I want to (a) dramatically expand Those Places, which requires shrinking others. No "world class" civilizations ever arose in (or example) Sub-Saharan Africa. (I'm expecting much nit-picking here, but the specific point is decide that, for example, a Civ starting in Timbuktu is happily excluded for the sake of all those globe straddling European Civs: Portugal; Spain; England; France ...) "Those Places" are:
  • Europe and the Mediterranean.
  • The Indian sub-continent.
  • East Asia
  • The Caribbean
  • North America, east of the Mississippi.
There is no point, at all, in having the Saharan, Mojave, Australia Outback, and Gobi deserts, at all. Ditto the tropical rain forests. So these are all reduced in size.

The disparity in scales are largely accounted for, in movement, by high MF Tiles, and much Impassable Terrain.

For historicity, Quintillus' editor will be used to (for example) make the entire West Coast with Sea Tiles (I don't think that Ocean Tiles can be used - :confused: - as they'd be perfect) along with the western European coast, up to the English Channel. The ability for European Civs to build Ships which cannot sink at Sea should be pushed forward to the 15th Century.

Many "traditional" (and excellent) paper-and-carboard war games have used abstractions for matters like this, perfectly well, for decades. (My favorite global WW2 has a "transit box" linking the European and Pacific parts of the USSR. Only Soviet units can enter that box; and they must end their movement there, until the Trans-Siberian RR is built - elegant and quite effective.)

Accordingly, my thoughts about placing, and accessing, Resources in these "reduced areas" is as follows:
  • The Resource must either be directly on the coast, or not more than one Tile inland.
  • If on the coast, its Tile and the two directly adjacent to it (on the coast) an be entered by Land Units. Any Tile directly adjacent to any of these 3 Tiles must be Impassable.
  • If one Tile inland, then:
    • The three coastal Tiles, and the one Tile on either side of the Resource Tile (and directly adjacent to the coastal Tiles) can be entered by Land units.
Consider European Colonial wars: at the scale of an Earth Civ map, I think that this abstraction is worth having "Those Places" true "theaters" of Civilization.

And you have no idea how glad I am that I "shouted" out to you! :dance:

Please, everyone, questions and comments and requests for any clarifications!
 
Blue Monkey said:
After a couple of hours of careful rereading of several posts, and advice from another member I've figured out that the question of Europe and part of the question of N America have been answered.
  • Europe ends at a north-south line from Scandinavia to the Black Sea.
  • Anatolia is part of Europe.
  • The northern edge of the map is landlocked across Steppes and also across N America
The rest remain unanswered so far.
Click to expand...

:yup:
 
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