A Full Earth Map, With Areas "Resized" To Maximize Game Play

@Ozymandias that doesn't help me for making a map. not at all. in fact it's counter-productive.

We agreed on a set of chunks (regions of the world) which make sense for the practicalities of all the scaling, orientation, etc. to be done. It's got to be part of one.

Can't proceed to work on Europe, Steppes, India or Africa til I know.
 
Blue Monkey said:
For Ozy's requested design the Scandanavia/Black Sea frontier for Europe actually makes more sense. The Urals will basically be as long North-South as the shrinkage of Steppes allow, rather than being enlarged along with the whole of Europe.
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Take, for example, the WW2-mods. With the first version of the border, the assault on Stalingrad by the Axis is seriously simplified. Perhaps some intermediate option between the two makes sense?
 
@Ozymandias

Oh man I definitely understand your frustration with the issue of different map projections and trying to scale things properly. The big thing for me was realizing that the problem is fundamental to what you are trying to do (i.e. map a 3D world on a 2D plain), meaning no matter what projection you go with there are going to be some concessions to realism are going to have to be made. Once I accepted this I was able to stomach the little inaccuracies here and there much better.

The main reason I went with a equirectangular template is I simply find it the most aesthetically pleasing to look out and think it works the best for a 2D game for that reason alone. It's also close enough to web-Mercator that it allowed me to use google/bing maps to chart cities with proper longitude/latitude relationships (which is a nightmare of a game btw).

I also decided to prioritize gameplay over perfect realism for the sake of the scenario. Because my map is meant as a base for WWII scenario, I enlarged Europe and Scandinavia to be proportionally larger than natural relative to the rest of the map. I like this choice because it's barely even noticeable and makes a huge difference in terms of continental space for gameplay. I think your map is even better than mine in that regard because as your Europe is massive despite the maps being the same size, and your Britain's size makes for better gameplay than mine (I just cant bring myself to distort things that much).

Your map is definitely well done, though. I'll point out that I used the HoF map as a template because it was wayyy easier just to refine an existing map than make one completely new. I can't even imagine the pain in the ass trying to make a world map from scratch like that...
 
@jagdgeschwader - TY! We are very much on the same page, and I definitely had a close look at what you'd achieved. Now all we have to do is wait and see what @Blue Monkey comes up with - and he has my full faith and confidence.
 
Blue Monkey said:
@Ozymandias that doesn't help me for making a map. not at all. in fact it's counter-productive.

We agreed on a set of chunks (regions of the world) which make sense for the practicalities of all the scaling, orientation, etc. to be done. It's got to be part of one.

Can't proceed to work on Europe, Steppes, India or Africa til I know.
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:bump: Blue Monkey, considering Ozy´s reply in post 83 of this thread, is there any progress with that map ?
 
Civinator said:
:bump: Blue Monkey, considering Ozy´s reply in post 83 of this thread, is there any progress with that map ?
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... Inquiring minds want to know*

* The slogan of a 1980s tabloid and, hence, not to be taken seriously.

- :D
 
I've talked with Ozy on the phone recently. Yes the map is in progress. Nothing ready to show yet. Juggling it with several other things atm - including clearing through mom's stuff so we can sell her house to cover her long-term (chronic not acute) medical expenses. ;)
 
I just realized that I had not yet posted what might be called "the client plan" to borrow a phrase from architectural design - sort of an executive summary based on discussions:

Europe
  • enlarged approx. 200%
  • Scandanavia: northern seaway preserved
  • transitional regions ( Black Sea, Anatolia, etc.) adjusted to blend with adjacent chunks.
Africa
  • Sub-Sahara greatly reduced (50% or more)
India
  • enlarged approx. 200%
  • transitional regions (Himalayas, Hindu Kush & Turkistan Plains, Lower Gangetic Plain, etc.) adjusted as needed to match adjoining chunks. Likely including reduction in most cases.
Steppes
  • greatly scaled down (at least 50% if not more) & truncated while also reshaping to blend with adjacent chunks
China
  • enlarged approx. 200%
  • borders Steppes roughly around Manchuria & Hokaido along coast
  • transitional areas in West adjusted to match adjoining chunks.
Sunda
  • shrunk approx 50%
  • Borneo & New Guinea further reduced
  • Rotated relative to India & China
Australia
  • shrunk 50% or more
Alaska
  • shrunk 50% or more
N America
  • enlarged approx. 200% ( up to as far north as St. Lawrence River)
  • Northern edge truncated
Greenland
  • shrunk 50% or more & truncated
Caribbean
  • enlarged approx 200% (meaning kept in rough proportion to N America)
  • Florida reduced relative to both Caribbean and the rest of N America
S America
  • reduced approx 50%


Nothing too detailed, just a general working guide at the chunk level.
 
MAPS & MATHS

For various reasons I'm shy about publicly posting wips too early in the process. However, in this case I think it's warranted - for those curious about why it takes so long to make a map of this ilk, and also to give those less experienced in the specifics some insight into the kind of things we consider when designing a a playable map.

Most of the chunks are fairly straightforward to do the initial resizing with because they either connect to each other in ocean areas that are easy to cheat (losing or gaining a few water tiles has a relatively minor effect) or by pushing into the Steppes (which need to be vastly shrunk anyway).

Africa is tricky. Not necessarily in terms of techniques to apply, but tricky to get a good result in the context of the overall map.

Even in this low-rez relatively undetailed image you can see that reducing Sub-Saharan Africa with a simple vertical resizing leaves the continent looking like itself. Below it is Europe enlarged to the desired proportion. So far so good.

The problem comes when trying to match them up. Unlike North and South America where the Isthmus is a single flexible join, Africa is anchored to Europe at three strategic points: both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar must line up, Sicily & Tunisia need to be close together, and the Levantine coast is more or less a straight vertical. As you can see from the image on the right, simply stretching Africa just doesn't work: beyond undoing the changes that reduced the less desirable areas, it's inelegant visually and mathematically - which creates too many game-play issues to list in a brief post.

cvSa05.png


Not that it's necessarily a conceptually difficult problem. It's one of those situations where the solution is relatively simple but requires careful consideration throughout a process consisting of quite a few painstaking & time-consuming steps. The ultimate result will probably involve some creative distortion of Europe that doesn't spoil the overall effect or adversely affect game-play. 95% of the work involves breaking Africa apart into a lot of little pieces, doing all sorts of geometric manipulations (resizing, distorting, rotating, transforming, etc.) with them individually, adjusting them relative to each other as I go, and as I do so also making sure that when the puzzle pieces are recombined it looks good and plays well.

I've been through a similar process before - manipulating Tibet, the Ganges Delta, and other outlying areas to make a South Asian map. So I know already what to do with the world map and how to do it. It just takes a lot of time - and the time devoted to it requires a certain kind of focus and energy that can't be turned on as simply as opening a water tap. To be clear: I enjoy the process even though it's slow.

If nothing else, now you know what's going on even though there's no wonderful wip images to post. Yet.
 
Vuldacon said:
Blue Monkey... I see you are hard at the details necessary to create this Map and no doubt it will look and work perfectly when completed :clap:
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I was actually thinking about your devotion to detail in unit-making when trying to explain what goes into my map-making. I guess I was sort of preaching to the choir in your case. :)
 
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Blue Monkey... to make a Great Game Map requires a great deal of talent and dedication to details. Especially true for the needed adjustments concerning Esthetics, Geometry and Game Play factors.
I like your thoughtful, thorough and methodical approach to Map Making.

It is also true that people who have not worked in a particular area, cannot know the level of knowledge, experience, details and procedures required.

We all use and appreciate many things that we do not really understand everything needed to make them. It is good to question things and learn as much as we can to have a better understanding and appreciation.

I love the Creative Work that has been accomplished here throughout the years...as Civinator has said, "Phantastic" :)
 
:) not abandoned or forgotten. Simply delayed by some relatively minor but prolonged health issues. A recent adjustment in medication seems to have helped a lot, and hopefully i'll be back actively working on this early in January.
 
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