A General Discourse on Chinese History

[Kublai-Khan]

I am also enyoing it
it is really interesting.
And i have a doubt.
India was the only important cultural focus, that was near China,
but according to what you said China remained kind of isolated.
Why?
i also remember
watching a documental on tv
a year ago
about chinese pilgrims
that traveled to India, to visit some buddhist thing i can´t remember.
Is this Zhou period when period when Confucius appeared?


And
i don´t know why but it is hard to me to think in China heavily forested.

:crazyeyes

In my mind china´s is full of rice terraces, with lot of people working,

the way you decribed china
remind me to
Japan in the 1500.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

"India was the only important cultural focus, that was near China, but according to what you said China remained kind of isolated. Why?"

Remember this was one thousand yrs before the birth of Christ. China was geographically isolated and unaware of India or the West .... yet. There weren't even nomadic tribes on horseback riding down fr the northern steppes to raid China yet. In fact, China didn't even exist yet!

"i also remember watching a documental on tv a year ago about chinese pilgrims that traveled to India, to visit some buddhist thing i can´t remember."

That was during the Tang, more than a thousand yrs later. I am trying not to get ahead of my story.

"Is this Zhou period when period when Confucius appeared?"

Nope, Confucius would appear in the next period, during the Spring and Autumn Period (Chunqiu). I am just putting in some add points about Confucius' writings.
"In my mind china´s is full of rice terraces, with lot of people working,"

The Chinese didn't eat rice yet at this time. They learned it fr some aboriginal ppl in the south (maybe around the Yangzi river) some centuries later. Remember what I said about China having a long history and how it evolves and how things changed over such a long period of time.

"i don´t know why but it is hard to me to think in China heavily forested. the way you decribed china remind me to Japan in the 1500."

Maybe it'll help if you know that Japan is on the same latitude as Beijing which was the northern-most portion of China until Qing times. The Chinese plains were originally thickly-forested and South China actually has a subtropical climate. It was after the arrival of the Iron Age later which enabled man to clear away the forests and really began to transform the landscape. Kinda hard to cut down trees with bronze tools or even flint.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

5.3 The Spring and Autumn Period

Well, what can I say? In autumn, you see the leaves dropping, the ground turns brown and the air turns colder. Life retreats. Then, there's the cold cold winter. After that, it's spring and life returns and begins afresh. New greenery dots the world. Sunlight and the smell of flowers. Arrrr ......

Got you all again, didn't I?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

5.3 The Spring and Autumn Period (Chunqiu)

Now that the King's effectively powerless, it's now every feudal lord for himself. Now there were hundreds of 'states' in the beginning, most of which had some form of connection to the royal house of Zhou originally. It was during this period when the states began plotting and attacking each other until towards the end, only a number of large states still remained to contend with each other.
War also turned increasingly brutal. Gone were the days of chivalric duels. Now the whole populations were conscripted to fight the enemy. In the beginning, it was still quite small-scale but as the population grew, war became more vicious and casualties climbed.
It was during this time, I think, that the Iron Age came to China. I believe they learned it fr the iron-smithing tribes of Siberia. Anyway iron tools enabled the clearing away of forests and the transformation of the N Chinese plain. The end result was a population boom and more war as the states expanded out to fill out every sq inch of available land for farming. When free land were no more, they resorted to attking and occupying land fr each other.
The greatest states of this era were the Chin in Shanxi/Shaanxi (note not the Qin who would be victorious in the end) and the Qi in Shandong. I remember the Qi were strong cos of the salt trade. Also at this time, the Qin were beginning to stir in the Wei valley (more on this in future posts). And the giant half-barbaric state of Chu in the south (along the Yangzi).
There was some kind of league for the states. Each time, a league leader would be appointed, usually the Duke of the most powerful and influential state at that time. Not sure what's its role but probably much like the UN now, to discuss issues. Probably as ineffective as the UN now too. Usually led by either Chin or Qi.
Next - Discussion
Next - 5.4 The Spring and Autumn Period Part 2 (got more to say)

 

[Knight-Dragon]

5.4 The Spring and Autumn Period Part 2

This was also the time of the Hundred Schools, China's greatest and most productive philosophical period. Becos of the political turbulence, scholars began to travel fr state to state, trying to advise the lords on how to conduct their affairs. These were idealists (some of them anyway) trying to improve on the lives of the ppl and end the wars betw states. The most important amongst them was of coz, Confucius.
Confucius' teaching essentially focused on relationships betw groups of ppl. Not very sure but he taught that there shld be mutual respect betw : -
Ruler and subject
Husband and wife
Father and son
Superior and junior (I think)
Also he drew examples mostly fr what he believed to the Golden Age of the Chinese, the dawn of the Zhou dynasty. After his death, Mencius continued on his teachings and these together would form the canons for Confucianism. Note that Confucianism is a philosophy and an ethics system, not a religion.
But there were also other schools of thought like the Legalists (who would make Qin the strongest state) and the Daoist philosopher-scientist-priests. Also some others but couldn't remember.
Also this was the time of Sun Zi the famous military strategist. He was originally a native of one of the Chinese states but ended up serving the Wu, a non-Chinese state at the mouth of the Yangzi (if my memory is correct). He aided Wu in its impermanent conquest of a part of Chu and also helped it to defeat Yue, another non-Chinese state to the south. But I think after his death, Wu was absorbed by either Chu or Yue. So much for his military treatise.
Anyway, the wars continued and the few hundred states gradually coalescended into a dozen or so thru conquest, trickery, marriage, union whatever. Eventually would left the 7 strongest states - Qin, Han, Wei, Zhao, Chu, Qi and Yan and also a handful of smaller states like Lu and Zhou etc.
This would be the window to the next age, the Age of the Warring States at the end of which the first true empire of the Chinese would arise. In actuality, there wasn't much diff betw the 2 ages. Just that in the next age, the combatant states were fewer, bigger, more powerful and the battles were huge affairs. The natural culmination of the wars would be a single empire. The final victor takes all.
Next - Discussion
Next - 5.5 Age of the Warring States

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Attached is the map for this Zhan guo period. A bit blurred but it's the best I can find in a hurry.

 

[Kublai-Khan]

Can you post a link to that map?
i really can´t understand it.

 

[Kublai-Khan]

I mean
read it properly.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The map is just for an idea of where the different states laid. It's a map showing the stages in the Qin conquests; with the darkest area showing the original extent of the state. Pls try to use a search-engine to find better maps yourself.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

5.5 Age of the Warring States

We'll concentrate on general stuff first; I'll talk about the Qin in the next post. Now at the beginning of this period, the main actors on the Chinese stage were set. The hundreds of states had been reduced to a few bigger ones - each of which was the equal of an European kingdom.
And each was drifting away, culturally, fr each other and taking on unique characteristics of its own. E.g. some states began to use Chinese characters which were slightly different fr the std to denote the same meaning. Also using their own weights, currency, cart-width (something to do with transportation) etc. If continued, it would mean each state would evolve into a culturally unique kingdom, much like the European kingdoms during the Middle Ages.
Now, China was in the full bloom of the Iron Age. I think iron production was also much higher than in the West cos the Chinese knew how to cast iron fr a very early age in addition to blacksmithing. Iron tools enabled the complete transformation of the N Chinese landscape, resulting in very productive agriculture and population boom. The main staple was now grain (I think), but rice was already being cultivated in parts of Chu (and would become a very important staple in later ages).
A side-effect of the Iron Age was, of coz, superior iron (steel?) weopans. The militaries at this time consisted of mainly infantry. With solid iron production, the warring states could mobilize the entire populations, armed them and warred. There were also chariot forces.
At around this period too, the tough pastoralists who had been pushed north into the steppes by Chinese agriculturists adopted horseback warfare. I think they picked this up fr further west. Now nomadic tribes on horseback appeared and began to raid China. The northern Zhao state even adopted this new method of warfare (i.e. cavalry forces) fr the nomads.
The northernmost states of Yan, Zhao and even Qin also constructed long walls to guard against this new breed of attackers. The states also built walls against each other. Hence the foundation walls for the famed Great Wall were being laid down now. These walls were mostly earthern ramparts, not what you would imagine if you are thinking of the Great Wall today. THOSE stone walls were actually built during the Ming.
The old league system was gone. The old hegemons, Qi was beaten down fr its former preeminent position whilst Chin broke up into three smaller states, Wei, Han and Zhao. The semi-barbaric Chu state in the south was also a strong power. The strongest of all, the Qin in the West, would soon rise and swallow up all the rest.

Next - Discussion
Next - 6 The Rise of Qin

 

[Knight-Dragon]

6 The Rise of Qin

According to Qin records (propaganda), the founder of the royal house of Qin was a native who had been appointed by the King (of Zhou) as his chief horse herder (or whatever you call it). Anyway, the fact remained that after the Zhou shifted (fled?) to the east, the Wei valley sort of went to pieces. The Qin picked up these pieces and laid claim to the land.
In the beginning, the semi-barbaric Qin were really a weak power and constantly at loggerheads with its immediate neighbour to the east, the mighty state of Chin (this was still during the Spring and Autumn era). The battles of this period were really small-scale affairs and flowed to and fro along the border betw the two states.
However, then Qin adopted Legalism as its state ideology. The then King of Qin invited a new adviser to transform the state, Shang Yang. Basically, Legalism was that humans were inherently evil; hence they needed to be firmly governed by autocratic laws otherwise they would wreak havoc. So Shang Yang instituted Legalist reforms (laws) in Qin and in the process, transformed Qin fr a backwater state into the most powerful state in the China.
At the same time, the Qin were also conducting massive irrigation projects in the Wei valley, its home territory. This would in effect turned the area into one of the most productive in China and would result in huge agricultural surpluses. Which in turn could fuel Qin's war-readiness and supply a huge standing army all yr round.
Now the Qin march to total hegomony was unstoppable. The Qin would conquer the other states in rapid succession, culminating finally with the conquest of Qi, the last state standing, in 221 BC. And then the King of Qin styled himself Qin Shihuang Di, the First Emperor, and the First Chinese Empire was proclaimed.

Next - Discussion
Next - 6.1 The Rise of Qin 2 (too short the above)

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I have found a site with the timeline of major events for the Qin here : -

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7547/chrono.html

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Also found another better, clearer map of the Warring States : -

 

[cataclysm]

muhaha, you really have too much time in your hands man.

A good read, but now don't have enough time to do my history 12 homework. There are journals/essays/film responses/research essays, and more.

Mind to help me out?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by cataclysm
muhaha, you really have too much time in your hands man.

A good read, but now don't have enough time to do my history 12 homework. There are journals/essays/film responses/research essays, and more.

Mind to help me out?

The general work-day is very very long. :crazyeyes

Not unless you want to fail in your homework.

 

[cataclysm]

seriously, I would need some help with my final essay for this term.

It's about something in the 20th century, 1919-1991. I havn't pick the topic yet. There are 12 of them, examples are like "describe the importance of mass communication"

I'm not asking for much, just want someone to proofread it when I'm done.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Well, I have just gotten my Civ3 installed as of this moment in time, so my schedule's very very tight. Sorry, mate. But I'm sure you'll understand.
Besides, I really suck at essays, reports and the like. No kidding. Give me realtime on-the-spot exams anytime. :crazyeyes

 

[cataclysm]

come on, I really need someone to prove my statements in the essay are valid.

I havn't even started yet. It will be done sometime around next week.

Thanks in advance

 

[Julien]

originally posted by cataclysm

come on, I really need someone to prove my statements in the essay are valid.

I havn't even started yet. It will be done sometime around next week.

You should start a new thread and post your essay there. I am sure people will give you some interesting comments and tips. I probably will.

originally posted by SKM

Well, I have just gotten my Civ3 installed as of this moment

How comes that you already have civ3 in Singapore and me not yet in Tokyo ? :crazyeyes Did you order it from the States ?

By the way, I am enjoying your thread.

I have found a good link (I think) about Chinese history :

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/chinhist.html

 

[cataclysm]

Originally posted by Julien
originally posted by cataclysm


You should start a new thread and post your essay there. I am sure people will give you some interesting comments and tips. I probably will.

originally posted by SKM

hehe, since I'm only a Grade 12 student and I'm interested in computer(programming/web design/networking/3d graphics/hacking... I do them all) than history, my essay will probably sucks by this forum's standard. Anyways, I might post it(can it survive in the World History section?), heavy critics already expected.....

I like history but I don't have the time for it. Most of my knowledge is the modern history between 1900-1991.

thanks for the advice anyways