a great problem: Persians are not arabs!

[Suntechnique]

Does anybody know what does Odu Nobugava says then he is angry?

It sounds "Such-ka" which soundly means "little bltch" in Russian Although this is perfectly fits the situation

 

[Danielion]

The incessant use of 'tu' really ticks me though. Did your average turn-of-the-nineteenth century Corsican dictator really talk like this? I think not.

In the 19^th century fresh daters would even speak with 'vous' to each other. Only close friendships, family bonds or love relationships would cause one to speak with 'tu'. Even in French films of the 60's it was the case. Take for instance the musical 'Les Parapluies de Cherbourg' (starring Cathérine Deneuve). In that film Guy speaks to Geneviève in 'tu', while later her future husband speaks in 'vous' even when both were engaged.

Back in those days people spoke decent French, unlike today when language has been degraded and vulgarized some more.

Still, I wouldn't dare talking to a stranger in 'tu', not even today. I know one Walloon person (who also speaks fluent Dutch and German, in fact she loves to speak German and rarely responds in French) whom I barely know and to whom I can safely speak in 'tu'.
But Belgians, so it always was known, weren't that good in French (even the native speakers). They spoke it as if it were just a tool of communication, missing the finesses of the cultural language behind it. French people used to make fun of Belgians because they always mixed tu and vous in conversations with the same person. In the comic 'Astérix chez les Belges' that's the case, anyway. That was the 60's.

 

[Great Cyrus]

please dont tal about other countries.
the topic sa abou persia's problems

 

[factorial]

Coptic is well known among members of the Coptic church, which you would have picked up if you were reading what I wrote. In fact, you say "Coptic speakers are primarily clergymen, as I've already pointed out" ... ... I "pointed this out" to you.

Well, I'm sure glad I just wasted 10 minutes rereading all your moronic posts on this thread (yes, now I'm being uncivil) to find that, no, you didn't. Instead you make repeated claims that you could just call up a Coptic Church and get a Coptic speaker and continuously ignore me when I try to explain that approximately .000015% of Coptic Church members speak Coptic.
[QOUTE]I have no idea whether they had the actor reading classical or modern Aramaic, but classical Aramaic AND Latin are both dead except in modern liturgy. We still have plenty of people knowledgeable though.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the point. Yes, Latin, Aramaic and Ancient Egyptian are all dead languages, but there are millions who speak Aramaic and Latin, while only a handful who speak Coptic which isn't actually Ancient Egyptian.

In any event, I'm done with this argument, think what you want, but I maintain that it is unreasonable to expect Fireaxis to have voiceovers in a language spoken by only a couple hundred people in the world.

Moderator Action: Calling someone's posts moronic is not acceptable.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Pangur Bán]

Well, I'm sure glad I just wasted 10 minutes rereading all your moronic posts on this thread (yes, now I'm being uncivil) to find that, no, you didn't.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9888417&postcount=114

This is exactly the point. Yes, Latin, Aramaic and Ancient Egyptian are all dead languages, but there are millions who speak Aramaic and Latin, while only a handful who speak Coptic which isn't actually Ancient Egyptian.

Instead you make repeated claims that you could just call up a Coptic Church and get a Coptic speaker and continuously ignore me when I try to explain that approximately .000015% of Coptic Church members speak Coptic.

...is unreasonable to expect Fireaxis to have voiceovers in a language spoken by only a couple hundred people in the world.

You're getting that figure from Wikipedia, and confusing the estimated number of native-speakers (300), people who've kept the language in their families, with people who've learned some of the language for scholarly or liturgical purposes. Basic knowledge of the language is far more widespread than that, and yes indeed, you could get hold of someone with enough knowledge very easily.

 

[generalwar]

I understand the problem of our fellow friend who wants Darius to speak his real language and not later Persian or Arabic language. I don't know anything about the Coptic church (except that it is concentrated in Egypt) but I think you should loosen up a bit about this thread, there is no need for such a fuss about how many people today speak Coptic or not. About other leaders, I understand the first sentence of Alex and I think I can understand August completely (I mean his inaugural speech) and that's it. I fully support Great Cyrus about Darius's language because, if Firaxis insisted on that leaders speak their mother tongue, they should do it much better. I understand it's hard to make Ramesses's speech, but I think they could work on Darius's language more. I agree with other posters about that how William didn't know to speak Dutch fluently or Nappy's French because languages were treated differently before. For example, in Croatia ( from where I am and I love my country) there was no politicians that would talk Croatia until the 1843. when Ivan Kukuljevic Sakcinski made the first speech on Croatian. I'm mentioning this, because I have the feeling that some people think that languages that are spoken where they are spoken today that they were spoken there before. I agree with posters who are mentioning nationalism in this fights about languages and I know how is it. Yugoslavian or Serbo-Croatian was erased from UN's list of spoken languages 2 years ago and I believe that there are many people who believe that there was no Croatia or Serbia before Yugoslavia. I mean, Croats came to today's Croatia in the 7th and 8th century and our language is much older than, for example, Italian because during that time when Croats were arriving, no one had any clue about how that peninsula is going to look like after a millenium when modern Italian nation was born. Sorry for going from topic, but I like giving history examples about how it was in my country then and then and that's what I like about this forum. There are many people from all around the world and we can learn a lot about other nations and we can compare it to our own history.
So to sum up what I wanted to say, I think that Firaxis should make those leader voices the best they can, because Darius and other part of crew deserves that because they were dare enough to try to stand a test of time. And, if they don't want to accept that argument than I will say this: they promised us that, we payed for that and we need to get it, right?

 

[Kyriakos]

Btw which are the two first (one or two?) words that Alexander says? I am greek, know some ancient greek, and was unable to understand them.
The rest are ok though

 

[Abegweit]

In the 19^th century fresh daters would even speak with 'vous' to each other. Only close friendships, family bonds or love relationships would cause one to speak with 'tu'. Even in French films of the 60's it was the case. Take for instance the musical 'Les Parapluies de Cherbourg' (starring Cathérine Deneuve). In that film Guy speaks to Geneviève in 'tu', while later her future husband speaks in 'vous' even when both were engaged.

Back in those days people spoke decent French, unlike today when language has been degraded and vulgarized some more.

Still, I wouldn't dare talking to a stranger in 'tu', not even today. I know one Walloon person (who also speaks fluent Dutch and German, in fact she loves to speak German and rarely responds in French) whom I barely know and to whom I can safely speak in 'tu'.
But Belgians, so it always was known, weren't that good in French (even the native speakers). They spoke it as if it were just a tool of communication, missing the finesses of the cultural language behind it. French people used to make fun of Belgians because they always mixed tu and vous in conversations with the same person. In the comic 'Astérix chez les Belges' that's the case, anyway. That was the 60's.

The question was rhetorical As for the move towards using 'tu' more, I personally think it is a good thing. A question of opinion I suppose.

 

[Mesopotamian]

Khosh Amadid!

please dont tal about other countries.
the topic sa abou persia's problems

Darius speaks Aramaic which is the language of Persia at that time i think

he most certainly is not speaking Arabic, i am sure cos i know Arabic, the Arab and the Egyptian leaders speak Arabic but with different dialects


if you spoke your present language at that time in Persia no one will understand you, even Darius himself..

Bedrood

 

[smachy]

they promised us that, we payed for that and we need to get it, right?

Yes, Firaxis promised that "Leaders will speak their own mother tongue." I see two ambiguous words in this promise. First, What is the antecedent of "their?" Second, what does mother language mean?

A reasonable antecedent of "their" is leaders. According to Merriam Webster's dictionary, Mother tongue is "one's native language." According to the same dictionary, native is "belonging to particular place by birth." Combining the two definitions, mother tongue is "language of the particular place where one was born." Now, taking all that together, the promise is "Leaders will speak the language of the particular place where they were born."

Darius was born in the Persian Empire. There is evidence that official language of the Persian Empire was Aramaic and Persian during Darius's life. So, Darius should speak Persian or Aramaic because those were languages of where Darius was born. I would have gone with Persian. But, it is up to the developers.

Now, did Firaxis keep its promise? Look at Catherine. She was born in Germany. The language of Germany is not Russian. I should start a thread about how Firaxis did not keep its promise.

 

[Abegweit]

Yes, Firaxis promised that "Leaders will speak their own mother tongue." I see two ambiguous words in this promise. First, What is the antecedent of "their?" Second, what does mother language mean?

Your mother tongue is simply the language you learned from your mother. E.g. the language you learned as a small child. It has nothing to do with a place. Native language is a synonym.

Now, did Firaxis keep its promise? Look at Catherine. She was born in Germany. The language of Germany is not Russian. I should start a thread about how Firaxis did not keep its promise.

Rather obviously, Catherine's mother tongue was German. However, she quite consciously assimilated to the country she rules. She worked hard to learn the language and during her reign she spoke mostly Russian at court. She even converted to the Russian Orthodox church over strong objections from her father.

Thus, while this fact belies Firaxis' promise, it certainly is historically accurate to have the monarch speak Russian just as it is accurate to have Napoleon speak French. It would have been even more accurate if both of them spoke with an accent but...

 

[hoplite-1]

It seems a little pointless to debate the historical accuracy of languages in Civ5 when you have Bismark and Genghis Khan meeting to discuss declaring war on George Washington...

I think you guys missed the point of native tongues. They are supposed to give civs an identity and "exotic flair". They don't have to be (and sometimes can't be) 100% accurate. It's like unique units, which are often inaccurate but still make the game more fun.

Not to mention historical accuracy flies out the window when playing Civ. What's a historically accurate way for Darius to address Napoleon? It's completely arbitrary.

Don't mean any offense by saying "pointless" by the way, it was a good read.

 

[Louis XXIV]

please dont tal about other countries.
the topic sa abou persia's problems

Persia is fairly well designed. The architecture behind Darius and the inscriptions are pretty close, he looks close to his inscriptions, and he speaks a language that was the main language of the Empire.

The biggest problem I have with Persia is making a Satrap Court a Bank makes no sense. Aside from that, Firaxis was very fair with Persia. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's not inaccurate either. They did not have Darius speak Aramaic for bad reasons, they did it for historical accuracy for this very specific period of Persian history.

 

[Revoran]

Darius is speaking Aramaic, a language he would have used a lot in official matters and to talk to foreign delegates. He would have also known an ancient form of Farsi, but he doesn't speak it in the game.

If Ramesses is speaking Arabic then that's pretty stupid. At least make it Coptic or something.

The only guy who should be speaking Arabic is Harun Al-Rashid.

 

[SuperJay]

I think you guys missed the point of native tongues. They are supposed to give civs an identity and "exotic flair". They don't have to be (and sometimes can't be) 100% accurate. It's like unique units, which are often inaccurate but still make the game more fun.

Very few people seem to see that, and would rather the bulk of Firaxis' development budget was spent on translating and recording languages that have been dead for thousands of years. Impractical? Maybe. Maybe.

Civ leaderheads are serious business.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If Ramesses is speaking Arabic then that's pretty stupid. At least make it Coptic or something.

The only guy who should be speaking Arabic is Harun Al-Rashid.

He is speaking Egyptian Arabic. It's not standard Arabic so it doesn't indicate a lack of homework. It strikes me that they were incapable of finding a Coptic speaker who could suitably play the role of Ramesses.

 

[Reginleif]

Hey why is it called Persia, shouldn't it be called Iran? That is the name of the place right?

 

[Skwink]

Hey why is it called Persia, shouldn't it be called Iran? That is the name of the place right?

Italy is the name of the place, but it's power was as Rome.

 

[Tee Kay]

Hey why is it called Persia, shouldn't it be called Iran? That is the name of the place right?

Persia is from Fars, which is a specific region of Iran where Cyrus and his successors came from. The term Iran dates from the Sassanid period.

 

[Soronery]

Does anybody know what does Odu Nobugava says then he is angry?

It sounds "Such-ka" which soundly means "little bltch" in Russian Although this is perfectly fits the situation

I think he is is saying "Aa, socchi ka?" which I am not sure what it means in this context. "oh, over there?" would be the usual meaning. Maybe "Oh, you over there" or something. On a side note I thought the voice acting for Nobunaga was pretty good.