A History of Schleswig-Holstein

Adler17

Prussian Feldmarschall
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Schleswig- Holstein. Germany
History Of Schlewig- Holstein from medieval times

In medieval times Schleswig was part of Denmark. In 1326 the Earls of Schauenburg got from the Danish Crown also the duchy of Schleswig. They had already the duchy of Holstein since 1111. In 1460 Christian I of Denmark became Duke of Schleswig and Earl of Holstein- Stormarn. Therefore he had to grant both parts the inner autonomy and not to be divided. “Up ewig ungedeelt”. This is even today the motto of Schleswig- Holstein. For centuries this treaty was never a problem. In these times mainly Germans settled in Schleswig- Holstein. In the northern part the Danish were in the majority but in all the Germans.
In 1815 the German Confederation was founded. Holstein was part of it, but not Schleswig. The Danish king was as duke of Holstein also member of the German federation as well as the king of the Netherlands for Luxemburg and the British king for Hanover. But nationalism spread through Europe. Germany was not a nation. So with a revolution in France in March 1848 the Germans revolted. In Denmark The so called Eider Danes wanted to annex Schleswig until the Eider river, the border to Holstein. But the Prince of Noer and a few soldiers, sportsmen and students rebelled and went to the fortress of Rendsburg. Most of the soldiers based there were from Schleswig- Holstein and so the fortress fell without a shot. Although the Danish officers protested. The Schleswig- Holstein troops, which were formed now, were deployed at Bau North of Flensburg. 4000 men were attacked by a Danish force of 11000 men. They had to retreat.
In the meantime Prussian forces arrived. They attacked the Danish forces at Schleswig. This time the Danes had to retreat. Also their new position, Översee was not the best. They had to retreat another time. On August 28th the cease fire of Malmö was signed. The cease fire was broken by the Danes on March 26th 1849. 55000 Germans with 155 cannons were now facing 35000 Danes with 72 cannons. The sea however was ruled by the Danes. The German fleet was way too small. However at Eckernförde the first sea battle occurred.
On April 5th a Dansih squadron containing the ship of the line Christian VIII, the frigate Gefion, the corvette Galathea and two steamers with total 148 guns. 16 guns, deployed by the Prussian Premierleutnant der Artillerie Werner (von) Siemens, defended Eckernförde. Although the Danes were in numerical superiority the German guns damaged the ship of the line and the frigate heavily. Both ships were unable to be recovered and had to surrender. But the fire on the Christian VIII. was too big. She blew up. The frigate was captured and used by the German fleet until the 1870s. 224 Danes died and 86 were wounded. On the German side 4 died and 14 were wounded.
In the following time Düppel and Kolding were gained in heavy battles. The Germans advanced to Fredericia, but there they had to withdraw.
In the meantime in Frankfurt am Main in the Paul´s cathedral the first German parliament was constituted. They made the first constitution which was never in use. Bismarck later made it in use with some minor differences. But the time lapsed. The other European nations were not very amused to see a united Germany even without Austria. So they forced the Germans to sign a peace with Denmark. The status quo ante was reinstalled. In the meantime the revolution died when the Prussian king Friedrich Wilhelm IV. refused to become German Kaiser.
Although the people of Schleswig- Holstein fought after signing the peace. The Danes attacked and near Idstedt it came to battle. The troops of Schleswig- Holstein had to retreat. Although fighting braverly at other battles like Missunde or Friedrichstadt they were outnumbered. They couldn’t expect any foreign help since other powers like Russia intervened diplomatically they had to surrender on January 10th 1851. In this time the Bavarian Wilhelm Bauer was able to build the first U-boat, the Brandtaucher. Unfortunately she sunk at her maiden voyage. But the Danish ships were farer away as normal…
On May 8th 1852 the European powers declared Schleswig- Holstein should be under Danish rule. However this was not granted and Prussia rejected the signing. This peace was called the peace without any content.
On November 13th 1863 the Danish Reichsrat made a new constitution in which Schleswig should be annexed again. The Eider danes wanted it. 2 days later the childless king Frederic VII. died. His successor, Prince Christian von Glücksburg, who ruled as Christian IX., signed it. On January 1st 1864 the constitution was in action. This was a break of the London Protocol of 1852. The German states sent troops to convince the Danes to retake the constitution. On January 16th 1864 an ultimatum was made to the Danes. 2 days time. Nothing happened. Austrian and Prussian troops were sent to Holstein. At the end of January 56000 German soldiers were at the Eider river. At January 31st the Danish commander declined the last Prussian and Austrian ultimatum. At the very next day the 2nd German Danish war started.
On 7 o’clock in the morning German troops crossed the Eider river. At 11 AM Eckernförde is taken, the Danish ships damaged and retreating. The first advance is without big fights only a few small gunfights with retreating Danish soldiers. But now the Germans reached Missunde at the south bed of the river Schlei. At the first advance the German couldn’t take the fortifications.
On the other side are the fortifications of the Danewerk at the Schlei river. These old fortifications were originally built to prevent Danish raids in Holstein, but now the old fortifications are useless. Newer ones were built elder ones refitted. Now it was the main defence line with 181 guns. But only 38000 of the 60000 men were there. Most of the soldiers from Schleswig- Holstein deserted. 35 % of the army. But it was a tough way to reach this line: Only after fierce fights at Ober- Selk, Jagel, and the Königsberg (not the capital of East Prussia!!!) Prussian and Austrian forces were able to reach this line.
On February 3rd the German generals under the command of the Prussian Generalfeldmarschall Freiherr von Wrangel develop the strategy to wait for a frontal attack until Prussian troops crossed the Schlei and attack the Danewerk from the back.
But the Danish Generalleutnant de Meza is cautious and deploys 10000 men at Missunde. Now there a crossing is nearly impossible. A new crossing is found at Arnis, where a pontoon bridge had to be built. But within one night a whole corps had to cross the river to use the surprise. A very risky situation. In the night from February 5th to 6th this should happen. It snows on the 5th making the advance more difficulty but also hiding the Prussian forces. When they wanted to cross the river civilians came and told them the Danes retreated. So without a fight the Prussian forces could cross the Schlei river. Also the Austrian troops advanced but too late to catch the Danes. They followed the Danes and had a fight at the Sankelmark lake. The Austrians had problems with their rifles due to the bad weather so they suffered som casualities. The Danes can retreat to Flensburg. On the very next day Flensburg is taken by the Prussians. But now the allies agree to make a pause. The Danes however can reach the main defence fortress: Düppel.
The retreat of the Danish troops lead to a change of the commanding soldiers: Generalleutnant de Meza had been replaced by Generalleutnant Gerlach. But also in the German command is a change. V. Wrangel is 80 years old. He is supervised by the crown prince, the later Kaiser Friedrich III., who died in 1888 after ruling 100 days. A new officer was sent to help them: The Prussian Chief of staff General Helmut von Moltke the elder. He changes the strategy: Instead of taking Düppel, they should siege it but conquer whole Jutland. Without the taxes (collected by the Prussians) Denmark should surrender. But Berlin and Vienna were against this plan because they feared the other big powers could intervene if German soldiers would cross Danish territory. Nevertheless on February 17th when reaching the border Prussian troops take Kolding without a fight. Soon British and French ambassadors protested. Britain is close to send a fleet to Copenhagen. And although the Germans have a bigger fleet than before they are even now too weak to cope with the Danes. Nevertheless there are some sea fights and some ships are able to catch some Danish merchant vessels. But the British fleet would be too much.
Bismarck, who supported the occupation of Jutland, apologizes and promises to punish the officers responsible for that deed. Words of a politician. Within a week the diplomatic front was silent. Bismarck can convince the Austrians to attack Danish territory. On March 6th they agreed. 2 days later Prussian and Austrian troops marched on. The Prussians siege the fortress of Fredericia while the Austrians had a fight at Veile. There the Danes had to retreat and were followed by the Austrians until Horsen and Skanderborg.
But the Prussians have no heavy siege guns. So after a cannonade they switched the positions with the Austrians, who now siege Fredericia. And the Danes started a guerrilla warfare.
Now the Prussians retake another objective: Düppel. But in the further enclosing of the fortresses the Prussians believe it will be nearly impossible to take this fortress. 22000 Danes are facing 16000 Prussians. And the strategy failed: Although nearly all parts of Jutland are occupied the Danes refuse to make peace.
On March 15th the new 24 pder siege guns open fire on the Danish fortifications. With these new guns the Danes are surprised- and they loose the sea way. All ships were now in danger which is nearing the harbour of Düppel. Also the Danish warships were not longer able to bombard German positions. 2 days later both sides plan to advance. Although the Danes are at first successful they loose more terrain as they gained and hat to retreat into forts. But the Germans are still to weak. So they hat to wait for reinforcements. In the meantime the German troops advance but without making an attack on Düppel itself.
Now the German command wanted first to take the isle of Alsen in the back of Düppel to enclose this fortress totally. Therefore the Danes had to be deluded. The siege guns fired. The damage is bigger than the Danes can repair and Gerlach wanted to retreat partly to Alsen. This was rejected by the Danish government. They gave the order to hold Düppel côute que côute because they hoped a conference in London with the other powers would be better if there are still troops in Schleswig. But Bismarck managed it to delay the conference to April 25th.
In the meantime the Germans can advance further and further nearer to the fortresses by attacking in the night the forward posts and digging trenches there. On April 18th the storm shall start.
In the evening before 94 guns fired on the fort. In the morning the attack started. In a fierce battle all 7 fortifications could be taken. But the remaining Danish units could escape to Sonderburg. The Prussians lost 263 men. Further 938 were wounded. The Danes lost over 1800 men who died or were wounded and over 3000 captives. However the Danish figures are different in nearly all sources, so you have to be cautious here. The Danish General du Plat is dead as well as the Prussian Generalmajor von Raven, who was fatally wounded. A few days also Fredericia is taken without a single shot. Also here the Danes retreated to the Isle of Fünen. They wanted to wait for the conference of London. That’s why they retreated.
In London the Danes try even now to annex Schleswig! This is refused by all other parts. The Prussians want a border north of the line Apenrade- Tondern. Bismarck gave the order to accept a line Flensburg Tondern, if a northern line is impossible. But the Danes lost their diplomatic game: the other powers feel snubbed. Now the Cease fire is over.
On June 26th the war continues. Wrangel is no longer commander. Prince Friedrich Karl is the new CIC. The next step in the German advance is the island Alsen. With a surpising invasion Prussian troops can take the island within a few hours. The Danish command thought they were able to hold Alsen as well as Fünen and was surprised. Also the rest of Jutland is now under German control. On July 20th again the weapons are silent. The Danish government resigned and the new one made peace. On October 30th 1864 the Danish king had to sign the peace treaty loosing Schleswig, Holstein and Lauenburg.
Schleswig and Lauenburg are now under Prussian control, Holstein under Austrian. Bismarck wanted to unify Germany. Now he had only 2 main powers who would never accept a Germany under Prussian control: Austria and France.
For the war at sea: Denmark soon sent the fleet to blockade the German harbours. And like 1848 there was only a small fleet to act against that. Mostly Prussian ships. But when the Austrian ships came to help the Prussians, the tide was turned in the battle of Helgoland.
Due to the uproar in Greece in 1863 a Prussian squadron formed from SMS Preußischer Adler, Basilisk and Blitz left Prussia to protect German civilians, Commander was Korvettenkapitän von Klatt. In December 1864 the squadron got the news of problems with Denmark so they came home. The voyage had to be interrupted some times due to damages on SMS Preußischer Adler, so the arrived Nieuwediep not before 14.04.1864, where they got the news about the begin of the 2nd Danish German war. The commander decided not to drive to Germany directly, but to wait on Austrian ships. With SMS Radetzky and Schwarzenberg two Austrian frigates under the command of Linienschiffskapitän (= Captain) v. Tegethoff the Austrian help came. The use of Austrian ships in the North Sea had diplomatic trouble with Britain as consequence.
However the German ships, as Austria was still in the German Federation, left the port. At Helgoland the squadron was caught by a Danish squadron consisting of the Danish Niels Juel, Jylland (frigates) and the corvette Heimdal. As the Prussian ships were low on coal and were very small compared to the Danes Tegetthoff gave the order to save the ships if needed at the very beginning. Despite this and the need of firing fat instead of coals, the Prussian ships stayed in the line. Both Austrian frigates were damaged in this struggle. SMS Schwarzenberg had to be rescued by the Prussian ships together with SMS Radetzky. In this fight the Prussian ships were not hit. However Leutnant zur See von Werner, gun commander on SMS Basilisk, claimed after the battle to have hit Jylland. As there was no record in the Danish sources, he later said he must have seen wrong.
At the end of the day both frigates were damaged badly. So the battle itself was a Danish victory indeed. However it lead to the end of the Danish blockade and so had the consequences of a Prussian and Austrian victory. Later in that war more Austrian ships came to take prizes and to help the German armies. The Danish navy retreated after Helgoland and was not more very active in the North sea except a few small skrimishes.
On June 11th 1866 the war with Austria started. The Austrian troops are enclosed in Altona, until 1938 a part of Schleswig- Holstein now belonging to Hamburg. But they can retreat to Harburg in Hanover in the last minute. In Königgrätz/ Bohemia the Austrian loose a battle they had to win. The Peace was mild for the Austrians. But the people of Schleswig- Holstein were dissatisfied when Schleswig- Holstein became a Prussian province.
In 1870 the war with France begins. The French wanted to encourage the Danes to take revenge but now Germany had armoured ships- not the Danes. Even a Fench fleet can’t convince the Danes. So in Schleswig- Holstein peace ruled.
After WW1 the Danes can gain the northern part of Schleswig in referendum which would be now classified as questionable, as the whole treaty was questionable. So the border of Germany to Denmark is now north of Flensburg.
That is the history of Schleswig- Hostein.
Here is a map and a link to a better one:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps3098.html
 

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This is a short history of Schleswig- Holstein. All names I took are German ones. I also tried to keep a neutral position. I think only the last sentence is a bit too subjective. The card is a bit too small but I gave you a link with a better one. There you might have to scroll and zoom. Sorry, I didn't found a better one.

Adler
 
Well done! Although I missed some info about the ancient german tribes, who lived in Schleswig-Holstein.

P.S.: Sometimes you switched from past tense to present tense;) .
 
Hey this must be in responce to the private message I sent you a few months ago. Schleswig-Holstein should not be ignored
 
Interesting. :) I've read about how Schleswig Holstein used to be allied with Sweden (against Denmark, of course), do you know anything about that? This would be in the 16th or 17th century, or so... Apparently the Swedish navy used to import oak timber from Schleswig Holstein for ship building...
 
The war of 1848-1850 had seen the Schlewig-Holstein rebels defeated, but the question of Schlewig-Holstein itself still stood. The Danish government desired to bring the duchy of Slesvig under the Danish Crown but Prussia under Bismarck wanted to include the duchy in the German federation. In this respect he was backed by Austria.

After an ultimatum that Denmark withdrew their forces from the duchy, allied German forces crossed the border to Holsten in December 1863, Denmark did not intervene but when the Germans crossed to border to Slesvig in February 1864, the war began.

Comparing the Armies:
The Danish army consisted of three infantry divisions and a cavalry division, in all 38.000 men. They were equipped with Muzzleloader rifles. The Danes were led by General de Meza.

The combined Prussian-Austrian army consisted of 61.400 men and 158 guns, these were eventually reinforced with 20.000 men and 64 guns. The German army was equipped with breechloader rifles.
On February 1st the Allied army crossed the river Ejder and advanced northwards toward Mysunde. The German objective was to encircle the Dannevirke position and destroy the Danish army. But the attack on Mysunde failed, yet the Danish army was still left in a serious situation. Aware of the situation, General de Meza concluded that it would be best to withdraw from Dannevirke. And thus on the cold night of February 5th the Danish troops evacuated the fortifications that had served as the symbolic line of defence for the Kingdom of Denmark for over 1.000 years.

The Danes retreated through the blistering cold, leaving most of their guns behind, 1o men froze to death on the long march. It took several hours for the Germans to realize that the Danes had withdrawn.

At Sankelmark the Danish rearguard defeated the pursuing Allies in a bloody battle and eventually the Danish army had arrived at Dybbøl and Sønderborg. General de Meza was dismissed for his decision and replaced with General Gerlach as commander of the army.

The Battle of Dybbøl
Soon the battle Dybbøl began with the heaviest bombardment in history. For weeks, grenades rained down on the Danish defenders, the Danes were forced back to their redoubts. Guns and fortifications were destroyed and many soldiers were killed and wounded. An allied attack on April 4th was repulsed but under cover of artillery, German pioneers dug closer to the Danish lines.

On April 18th the Germans attacked once again with 11.000 men and 26.000 in reserve. The Danish defenders had only 5.000 men at the frontline and 6.000 men in reserve. The outcome was inevitable but the Germans had to fight in fierce hand-to-hand combat for every Danish position. The Danish 8th Brigade of the reserve, fiercely counterattacked towards Dybbøl Mill, yet after heavy losses they had to retreat back to a bridgehead along with the troops that escaped the redoubts. The Danes had lost 5.000 men in dead, the Germans had lost 1.200.

:cry:


After the defeat at Dybbøl the Danish army retreated to Fyn but eventually it was decided that the island of Als should be defended. On May 9th a Danish naval squadron defeats an allied German squadron in the battle of Helgoland.

On May 26th the Germans began shelling the Danish positions on Als. 2.500 Prussian embarked in small boats and began crossing the sound. The Danish armoured ship Rolf Krake attempted to halt the crossing and it almost succeeded thus for a moment it seemed that the Allied crossing would fail, but due to a misunderstanding the Danish ships was recalled. The Danish regiments on Als were unable to repulse the German attack, and they were soon forced to evacuate by ship. Again the losses had been heavy, 3.000 men in dead, wounded and captured. The loss of Als was another shock for the Danish people and government and they sued for peace. But now the terms were hard, Denmark was forced to give up Holsten, Slesvig, and Laurenborg. That meant 40% of the total Danish territory and 20% of the total Danish population. The 19th century had been disastrous for Denmark.

The final battle of the war was a small meeting engagement at a small insignificant town called Lundby, but yet it symbolised the whole war of 1864. Most of Europe took notice as a company of Danish troops had attacked a company of Germans.
The Danish troops had conducted a bayonet charge on the Germans across 600 meters of open ground, and in three rapidly fired salvos the Danish troops had been cut down. The attack broke 30 meters in front of the German line, at this point ¾ of the Danish company were dead or wounded.
The breechloader rifles had proven their superiority over the obsolete muzzleloader.

The disastrous 19th century made all the ideas of war as a political instrument disappears and the repercussions are still felt in Danish politics of today... This combined with the events of 1940-1945... oh the horror... we still don't trust the Germans... :mischief:
 
mrtn said:
Interesting. :) I've read about how Schleswig Holstein used to be allied with Sweden (against Denmark, of course), do you know anything about that?
Ah yes... 1643-1645 The Thorsteinson War

Sweden got involved in the Imperial War (Thirty Year War) and eventually became the leading Nordic state. Denmark observed with increasing concern as Sweden occupied possessions in northern Germany, that soon would enable them to threaten Denmark from both east and south. Indeed annoyed at the Danish tax interference, Sweden, allied to the Netherlands, attacked Denmark without a declaration of war in 1643. :eek: In 1645 Denmark had to give up many territorial possessions to Sweden.


December 1643: War breaks out between Sweden and Denmark due to the yearlong dispute of control for the Eastern (Baltic) Sea and Sweden’s displeasure with the Danish toll.

December 12th 1643: The great Swedish commander Thorsteinson crosses the border to Holsten (Holstein) from Swedish territory in Northern Germany.

January 1644: Jutland is occupied by Swedish troops.

February 1644: Swedish troops under Gustav Horn advances into Scania and is first stopped at Malmø.

May 16th 1644: In the battle of Lister Dyb, a Danish fleet defeats a Dutch fleet sent to aid the Swedes.

July 1st 1644: A naval engagement at Kolberg Heide ends in a strategic Danish victory as the Swedes are forced to withdraw to the Kieler Bay.

October 12th 1644: A combined Dutch-Swedish fleets defeats a Danish fleet at Fehmern. This effectively ends the war.

February 1645: Negotiations are begun in Brømsebro.

August 16th 1645: The Brømsebro negotiations ends. Denmark is forced to secede Gotland, Øsel, Halland and parts of Norway. :cry:


1657-1658 First Swedish War (The Carl Gustav Wars)

A new threat emerged when the Swedish King married the duchess of Gottorp in Slesvig in 1654. This marriage meant a common Swedish-Gottorp union against Denmark.

In 1656 the great Swedish King, Karl Gustav, embarked on his Polish campaign and in Copenhagen everyone knew that he would soon turn his attention towards Denmark.

The time to strike seemed ripe in 1657 with King Karl Gustav stuck somewhere in the Polish mud, so Denmark began a ‘preventive’ :hmm: war against Sweden. However the Swedish King saw this as a delightfully convenient excuse to withdraw from his Polish adventure. He rapidly marched to Denmark with his veteran army, overrunning all resistance, and crossing the frozen sea, he threatened Copenhagen. The result was the panic-treaty of Roskilde in 1658 where Denmark was forced to give up Scania, Halland and Blekinge. Especially the loss of Scania was mourned in Denmark. :cry:


June 1st 1657: While the Swedish King Gustav is occupied with his adventure in Poland, the Danes declare war on Sweden to reclaim the territories lost in the Thorsteinson War.

July 21st 1657: Swedish troops from Poland, crosses the border to Holstein and continues up in Jutland.

September 12-13. 1657: A naval engagement between Swedes and Danes ends without a victor.

October 24th 1657: The Strongpoint of Frederiks Odde (Fredericia) falls and the last Danish forces in Jutland are defeated.

January 30th 1658: The Swedish army crosses the frozen strait of Lillebælt between Jutland and the Islands. Nyborg on the island of Fyn falls shortly thereafter.

February 1658: Swedish troops reach Zealand and Copenhagen by crossing the islands of Lolland and Falster. The Danish government sues for peace.

February 18th 1658: Denmark and Sweden signs a peace treaty. Denmark losses it’s ancient heartland of Scania, Halland and Blekinge, the island of Bornholm and parts of Norway. :cry:



1658-1660 Second Swedish War (The Carl Gustav Wars)

Now, barely had the Swedish armies left, before King Karl Gustav changed his mind. Rather than disbanding the army (Nobody wanted that), nor sending it back to Sweden (nobody wanted it there) nor back to Poland (the land was plundered and pillaged, they most certainly didn't want it there) why not make it stay in Denmark? This also meant that Denmark could be defeated for good, and in August the Swedish army returned.

Despite Swedish setbacks and defeats the new peace treaty was forced to respect the treaty of Roskilde, as Denmark’s own allies were happy to see control of the Øresund divided.


August 11th 1658: King Karl Gustav has regretted his peace treaty with Denmark and Swedish troops begin a siege of Copenhagen.

October 29th 1658: An aiding Dutch fleet reaches Copenhagen after a naval engagement with the Swedes in the sound.

December 8th 1658: The island of Bornholm liberates itself from Swedish occupation.

February 10th 1659: The Swedes attempt to capture Copenhagen by storm but no dice. 12 Danish soldiers are killed while roughly a thousand Swedish troops are killed. Says we, anyhow... :hmm:

November 14th 1659: The Swedes are defeated again at Nyborg.

May 1660: A peace treaty is signed. Norway (Denmark) regains its lost territory and Denmark regains the island of Bornholm. :crazyeye:



Pardon the off-topic...
 
Okay Cimbri, the facts you mentioned in the war with Prussia and Austria at least are mostly correct. But the landing of Alsen took place without much resistance. IIRC the Rolf Kraken was not involved. However one fact you forgot to mention: The Danish breaking of the Treaty of London by signing the new constitution. In London the status quo ante (1848) was rebuilt. The Danes were breaking it by annexing Schleswig, which was mostly populated by Germans. Only in the North the Danes were the majority. That´s why the German Federation declared war on Denmark. The danes wanted to get the whole cake even in the cease fire. Although the other powers were on Denmarks side they felt betrayed by them. So nearly whole Schleswig was lost for them (indeed Aerö and a few towns remained Danish because the North Friesean islands, which never belonged to Germany became German). So it was nor German´s but Danish fault for the loss of their territory. BTW Schleswig was NEVER part of Denmark as well as Holstein and Lauenburg :p ! Your king was only the duke of these duchies but they were independent (Personal union). So you lost no territory! But nevertheless WE must be aware by you Danes. ;)
http://david.national-anthems.net/sch.txt

;)
 
From the 17th to the 19th century we lost enormous amounts of territory. Now, the prospect of loosing a piece of land populated by Danes seemed rather… oh, the horror…

But the rest of Europe learned their lesson from not aiding us in the war… and they learned said lesson well in 1914-1918… :mischief:


And yes the Rolf Kraken was involved in the crossing… such a pitiful performance by the Royal Navy is indeed remembered with shame. :ack:

Furthermore, (concerning the inhabitants of the area)

Slien and Jernved (on the border between Slesvig and Holstein) was originally Danish, the area on the shores of the Western Sea was Frisian and Stapelholm and the areas in the east were German. German immigration throughout the Middle Ages eventually replaced Danish with German as primary language in the region. The whole area was under “Jyske Lov” Jute Law since 1241 (It was replaced with the Preussische Landesgesetz in 1866). Holstein is another matter. In the Middle Ages it was called North Albingien and it was populated by Germanic Saxons. I recall it was a part of the Holy Roman Empire in the 15th century. But nevertheless both duchies got themselves tangled up in a personal union with Denmark in 1460. But the point is that Slesvig was considered Danish, to us Danes at least. Hence we were very reluctant to betray our brothers and surrender them to the Germans in 1864.



By the way, Slesvig is the site of the old Viking town of Hedeby. And, eh, Dannevirke (what you call Danewerk) was initially constructed (Started by Gorm the Elder, our oldest King) in 737-1160 to protect against the Saxons, then the Franks, then the Holy Roman Empire, then the pillaging Wendic Obodrittes. Not vice versa. ;)
 
This is right, but in 1460 a treaty was signe to prevent the annexion of both duchies. They were independent from Denmark. Only a personal union existed. Hannover was never British, although Victoria was also Queen of Hannover! They were considered to be independent, while Holstein was part of the Holy Roman Empire. So it became member of the German confederacy. There was nearly no trouble with Germans until 1848 and the first annexion trial of the Danes. This provocation let to the first and eventually also to the 2nd German Danish war. In both wars the Danes didn´t looked good, but that is mentioned above. No, Denmark had no right to annex Schleswig. And only in the northern part lived Danes in the majority while in total Schleswig the Germans were in the majority. So it was clear a German duchy. That Denmark lost the wars might have been horrific but due to the incompetence of the Danish leaders they lost much more as they had to. And the war of 1914 was NOT German fault. But THATS another question for another thread.

Adler
 
Adler17 said:
This is right, but in 1460 a treaty was signe to prevent the annexion of both duchies. They were independent from Denmark. Only a personal union existed. Hannover was never British, although Victoria was also Queen of Hannover! They were considered to be independent, while Holstein was part of the Holy Roman Empire. So it became member of the German confederacy. There was nearly no trouble with Germans until 1848 and the first annexion trial of the Danes. This provocation let to the first and eventually also to the 2nd German Danish war. In both wars the Danes didn´t looked good, but that is mentioned above. No, Denmark had no right to annex Schleswig. And only in the northern part lived Danes in the majority while in total Schleswig the Germans were in the majority. So it was clear a German duchy. That Denmark lost the wars might have been horrific but due to the incompetence of the Danish leaders they lost much more as they had to. And the war of 1914 was NOT German fault. But THATS another question for another thread.

Adler

Victoria was never Queen of Hanover as its constitution forbid women from holding the throne, thats when the Union between UK and Hanover ended.
;)
 
So are the joint as one state/province/something else withing Germany?
 
Holstein was part of Germany. Schleswig not. But Schleswig was also never part of Denmark. It was independent, but in personal untiy with Denmark as well as Holstein. In an old treaty it was granted that both duchies would never parted. Up ewig ungedeelt. That old treaty was broken twice with no success by the Danes in 1848 and 1863. So the wars followed. And because the majority of Schleswig were German they wanted to become an own state within the German federation. But Prussia and Austria occupired the duchies and un the end Schleswig- Holstein became a Prussian province. I know it is a complicated history.

Adler
 
Is that where Holstein cows come from?? I always forget if those are the ones you eat or if they're the milk ones. :confused:
 
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