A History of the Portuguese

[yaroslav]

If nobody cares about it, we can split the village like in that Asterix & Obelix story

 

[MCdread]

For all I care you can have it, which you already do de facto. And I think that at this point that's the only realistic option and that's probabably what the inhabitants want (thanks to Franco ).

 

[Lord_Sidious]

Thanks to franco why?

 

[yaroslav]

I don't know also.

 

[Lord_Sidious]

i think that MCDread is trying to say that franco threatened the population?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Franco threatened the people to remain spanish and because that today the people want to be spanish?

Something doesnt work in that reasoning...

 

[Lord_Sidious]

yes.........................................

 

[Ribannah]

The dutch were beaten in Brazil and Angola.

That is, Portugal lost territory in Brazil to the Dutch VOC and then got it back when the Dutch were occupied fighting the English; Portugal defended succesfully in Angola. However, Portugal lost Ceylon, Malacca, Axim and Elmina to the Dutch.

 

[Sims2789]

Well, Brazil is not the populated only by people of Portuguse, African and Native origin. We received severall million immigrants, from the late XIXth century untill the 50's, and another wave came between 1964-1975(those were mainly portuguese). Those immigrants were basically from Italy, Spain, Germany, Polad, Japan and Portugal. Brazil has the largest italian community outside Italy(yes, larger than the american one), and the city São Paulo has also the largest japanese community outside Japan. Not to mention that Rio is the second largest portuguese city in the world, only after Lisbon . Basically all bakeries here are owned by the portugas.

Besides the massive influx of eruropeans/japanese immigrants, together with the influx of africans that came as slaves, another important factor in our gigantic population is the high fertility of the average woman untill the 80's, when demographic growth rate dropped dramatically.

Not to mention the 20,000 Confederates that came to Brazil from the southern United States after the American Civil War. One of their reasons for coming was so that they could preserve their "right" to own slaves.

 

[Sims2789]

Indeed it's a resume of the main wars. For instance, there is no reference to the last Spanish-Portuguese war that arose* at the beginning of the XIX century

* Basically arose because we were bullier than them... We took a minor stupid village, Olvienza, as result of that war. And now Olivienza is a problem in our relations.... A village is not worth it.

Man if there was just one English-speaking village in Mexico on the border that used to be American, we'd be pissed. Shows the difference between our two countries.

 

[Yamamoto]

Not quite right.

Olivenza was taken when the napoleon invasions reach Portugal. Spain allied to Napoleon, and grab that land. Portugal and England get ride off Napoleon army some time later, but, didnt recover that piece of land.

Well, if we look in that way, then Spain also loose many lands in previous wars for Portugal (I mean, not Spain but the previous kingdoms that former now Spain, like Castela).
You see, under reconquista, Portugal Grab alot of land from muslim, that Castela (spain) would consider that belong to them.

All The history of Portugal was made of several fights with Spain, and also in diplomacy wins too.
Portugal and Spain even had the nerv to divide the world (!!!) for them selfs, and sign a document with the pope judgemnt!!!

That is why Portugal still prevail, as a kingdom and after as a state, after all theses years of fights. That reveals, since the previous tribes of Lusitanos, that were the most resistants to the Romans invasions (and which from Portugueses descends) the spirit of "no surrender" of that people. That is IMHO, but also history facts too.

The truth is that Portugal, still a small country, but 3 times bigger than the previous size, when it was declared a kigdom.

 

[Stapel]

People completely forget about the one-day war of 20 june 2004. A glorious victory for the Portuguese over the Spanish!

I quite well remember the war-song!

la-la-la-la-la-la-la-laaaaaaah
Fudemos Espanha!

 

[Yamamoto]

Lol Indeed!

 

[Stapel]

That is, Portugal lost territory in Brazil to the Dutch VOC and then got it back when the Dutch were occupied fighting the English; Portugal defended succesfully in Angola. However, Portugal lost Ceylon, Malacca, Axim and Elmina to the Dutch.

It was the WIC that controlled Brazil (or rather Recife/Pernambuco) from (about) 1630 until 1654, not the VOC.
The campaign for Brazil nearly bankrupted the WIC.

It's important to understand neither the WIC (West Indian Company) nor the VOC (United East-indian Company) were governed by the Dutch government (Staten). Both were unlimited corporations, financed with private money.
However, the Staten (especially the one of Holland, by far the most important of the 7 united Dutch republics) did regulate many things.

 

[Yamamoto]

Well apart from football teasing.

The question of Olivenza is a pretty much forgotten conflict for both sides.
The majority of Portugueses and Spanish even didnt know the existence of that tiny place.
Olivença, for his shape was always a very vulnerable place for Portuguese, in the border of the two countries.

And in resume Olivença is pretty much the same situation of the Rock (Gilbraltar) - the one that happen between England and Spain.

As far as my opinion concerning that land, I think in fact Olivença belongs to Portugal accoridng to the treaty of Vienna 1815, but no one from this side even remember or feel linked with that place. So is pretty much a political sitation, that the two sides use, when want to get some diplomatic advantages in negotiation and today it is not make much sense.

For futher understanding, take a look: OLIVENÇA OR OLIVENZA, You name it!

 

[Lord_Sidious]

And the guys living in Olivença don't want to go back to Portugal (they live better in Spain )

 

[Yamamoto]

Well that is not obvious! I mean, all know that Portuguese diet make less damage to health...

The thing is, its inhabitants are completly spanish, so I doubt they would accept integrate Portugal again.

Anyway we have more some rough land to discart. For who may be interested, we are selling Madeira (we cant stand anymore its political leader, João Jardim).

So we are open to the best offer. Please contact me to further details. (We even thinking on pay to get ride of it!)

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Madeira would be funny. More wine. Now, if you want money for it... But in any case you could recuperate Ceuta in exchange. OK?

 

[chancellor_dan]

On the wars:

In 1916 Portugal entered WWI and fought in Africa and the westen Front.

I must confess i didn't know that. Do you have any more details?

 

[Stapel]

I must confess i didn't know that. Do you have any more details?

I didn't know either until last summer, when I saw a momunent in Aveiro.