a hyperthetical situation

[Karakas]

how would you guys get out of something like this. (hyperthetically >_>)

your ljoslfar with the second greatest army in the gmae,a smaller nation (malakim) has taken most of the territory around one of your cities by culture which included some ancient forests the city needed to live. you need to destroy the malakim city (their capital) which has a sphener patrolling it (15 str) and has minimal defenses in the city itself. you have 3 eidelon and 3 elven beastmasters.

here's where it gets tricky.
the malakim have a defenssive pact with the most powerful of the nations (grigori). you use your trojan horse and find that their forces in and around their cities are massive. their attitude is pleased toward you at the moment, but if you declare war on the malakim they will utterly destroy you. you have moved 3 elven flurries, 3 druids, and 3 elven paladins to their borders, as well as yvain the woodelf (13str) and a treant.

how would you take the city of the malakim but stay alive?

(remember it's "hyperthetical, but i can post the save if you need me to >_>)

 

[Civkid1991]

hurry hurry.... press ctrl+w. j/k

 

[Karakas]

>_< is it THAT hopeless?

 

[BCalchet]

My first reaction is to kill them all and let their gods sort them out, but I suppose the balance of forces wouldn't allow that.

Can you convince the Malakim to attack some other civ through diplomacy? That would not only (hopefully) cause some redeployment of their forces, but also break the defensive pact. If not, can you get someone else to attack the Malakim? The attacker might not last long against the Malakim and Grigori, but you might be able to start a short victorious war while they're busy, grabbing the captial and paying through the nose for peace once they'll talk to you again.

Alternate solutions... can you conjure up a Great Bard within a reasonable amount of turns? The +4000 should let your city breathe for a while while you prepare to grind the Malakim and their allies into the dust. If you can get lots of cities churning out prophets or first-tier disciple units, you might be able to build up enough culture that way.

If all else fails, just let the city starve or even give it away to the Malakim for now, depending on if you have anything important inside.

 

[Karakas]

My first reaction is to kill them all and let their gods sort them out, but I suppose the balance of forces wouldn't allow that.

Can you convince the Malakim to attack some other civ through diplomacy? That would not only (hopefully) cause some redeployment of their forces, but also break the defensive pact. If not, can you get someone else to attack the Malakim? The attacker might not last long against the Malakim and Grigori, but you might be able to start a short victorious war while they're busy, grabbing the captial and paying through the nose for peace once they'll talk to you again.

Alternate solutions... can you conjure up a Great Bard within a reasonable amount of turns? The +4000 should let your city breathe for a while while you prepare to grind the Malakim and their allies into the dust. If you can get lots of cities churning out prophets or first-tier disciple units, you might be able to build up enough culture that way.

If all else fails, just let the city starve or even give it away to the Malakim for now, depending on if you have anything important inside.

only problems would be that it's a small world, 4 players >_< the dwarves (forgot civ name) are annoyed at me, and the malakim are furious as i have already destroyed half ther civilization >_< (peace time now though)

i may just try the great bard idea, or the prophets, seeing as the only way out is to die >_<

thanks for your contribution ^^

edit: i have actually thought about trying to get the malakim to declare war on ME. would that make the grigori declare war on the malakim? (we have a defensive pact)that would make it extremely easy to destroy them.

 

[Civkid1991]

hummm... i though this was suppose to be hyperthetical!

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Yes, if I understand you correctly, Cassiel would declare on Varn if Varn declared on you.

 

[QES]

For this "hyperthetical" or extreamly-thetical situation: (For future referance is hypothetical)

I suggest displomacy and getting that defensive pact declared null and void. Through everything you can at whoever likes you the most to that end. Also if you can get the Grigori and the Ljosalfar to go at it, the malakim will be far less protected. In the end, when you do finally wind up at war, do NOT conquer cities, RAZE them. THis will preserve your unit count, and allow you to continue moving your army and destroying them. Taking cities will slow you down. Remember, Meter Swarms are your friend. If you can get archmages. Otherwise pillage to your hearts content and remain defensive. If you can keep them from having villages, and other improvements (and its best if you can do this to mulitple nations your at war with) with fast units, then youll be in a position to just continue cranking out units, while they suffere major economy woes. Above all keep your units alive while doing the most damage. Your goal is RATIO in war, make em pay for every unit you lose.

-Qes

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Wait, aren't hypo- and hyper- opposite prefixes? I hadn't put much thought into it before, but I'm wondering now. What's the etymology of hypothesis, anyway?

 

[QES]

Wait, aren't hypo- and hyper- opposite prefixes? I hadn't put much thought into it before, but I'm wondering now. What's the etymology of hypothesis, anyway?

Hypo, meaning under, as opposed to hyper, which means over, for various words means exactly what they say.

Hypothesis, or "under-thought/statement" means exactly that. The underlying concept behind which all other concepts (in the theorum) gather. Your english teacher told you that you need a Thesis for your paper right? This is why, the hypothesis of any argument, is the cornerstone, or Foundation of the rest. Yes, its sort of odd thinking of the thing your trying to prove as the foundation, but thats english for you.

Hypodermic needles? Dermis = skin, hypo = under therefore Underskin needles.
Hypothesis Hypo = under, thesis = thought/statement/idea, underidea.
Hypothetical , therefor is underidea-like With the suffix "cal" indicating similarity to.

A hyperthetical idea would be (possibly a real word that needs use) an overidea-like concept. In this, it would be similar to supporting argumentation, but not. For me, this would be something that is essentially like a "gut feeling". A gut responce, is usually a responce to some concept or idea that we cannot tangilbly explain. As opposed to foundational "hypo" thesies, hyperthesis would be the "fluff" or "extra argumentation" toward a concept or "hypothesis". Therefor Hyperthetical would be similiar to this fluff and extra argumentaion, but not the genuine article. Hence the "gut" feeling. Its not true and systematic fact-based logical construction or form, but instead LIKE fact-based logical construction or form (i.e. leading in the same direction) but with a different path taken. Hence "gut reaction."

Personally ive come across many Hyperthetical situations.
-Qes

EDIT: The actual Etymology is of Greek and Latin Origions. Much like the rest of english. In this case Hypo and Hyper have actually been changed very little in the thousands of years of their usage. Which it should be said has only ever really been used by the educated. And since the educated over these thousands of years are not like to change their meanings or pronunciation, they've remained basically the same. Only in recent years (last 100 or so) has the populace become more educated as to their use....... but this education without acedemic disapline (much like most of english) results in the twisting of origional concepts and meanings. Like how Gay now means homosexual instead of happy and joyous. A word in the vernacular gets twisted, despite its proper acedemic origions or main usage. The Vox Populoi tends to distort, even if educated. So, edcuation of the masses has been good for society, bad for language in general.

 

[Civkid1991]

Im just going to take a wild guess here.... your a english teacher (or some other job related to the english language or linguistics)

 

[QES]

Im just going to take a wild guess here.... your a english teacher (or some other job related to the english language or linguistics)

Nope. Keep guessing. Though, my mother was an english teacher.
And why do i get the distinct impression you view that (though it is not true) as a bad thing hmm? Be good to your teachers.
-Qes

 

[Sureshot]

Like how Gay now means homosexual instead of happy and joyous.

And I thought people used gay for homosexual because homosexuals double their wardrobe and can shower with their partners in public places (good reasons to be happy)... what a fool i've been

 

[BeefontheBone]

So, edcuation of the masses has been good for society, bad for language in general.

It's not like the meanings of English words haven't changed before large-scale public education - there's plenty of bastardised French in there, and earlier things like Norse to boot. I never understand why people are so fuddy-duddy about it, really - that's how language works. The only one that really gets to me (and I think I've lost the battle by now) is "decimate" which used to have a very specific meaning as an interesting historical curio but has now been changed to mean the same as LOADS of other words. It's not like we needed another word for destroyed/wiped out/slaughtered/annihilated/killed with big sticks...

 

[QES]

It's not like the meanings of English words haven't changed before large-scale public education - there's plenty of bastardised French in there, and earlier things like Norse to boot. I never understand why people are so fuddy-duddy about it, really - that's how language works. The only one that really gets to me (and I think I've lost the battle by now) is "decimate" which used to have a very specific meaning as an interesting historical curio but has now been changed to mean the same as LOADS of other words. It's not like we needed another word for destroyed/wiped out/slaughtered/annihilated/killed with big sticks...

As a fuddy-duddy myself, I like when words are kept to their (hopefully) origional meanings, and when a word is used because it is the most percise and acurate. A healthy vocabulary, for instance, does not need to be extensive if its precise and accurate. For example, the use of the words "precise" and "accurate" are almost always considered synonyms. They're not. Precise implies consistancy in repetition, accuracy denotes ralative success to an intended goal/target. One could be VERY precise, if one's shot is ALWAYS off by 5 feet to the left. Its not accurate but it hits the same "wrong" spot every time. Conversely, repeated shots that miss by a foot in any direction would indicate a higher accuracy, but lower precision.

The use of these two words occurs often as if they were the same thing. My wish for english is that we would recognize conotative, denotative and innotative differences in words and language, spoken or otherwise.

-Fuddy Duddy

 

[chocmushroom]

As a fuddy-duddy myself, I like when words are kept to their (hopefully) origional meanings, and when a word is used because it is the most percise and acurate.
-Fuddy Duddy

I hate it when people missuse the word Massive, which should have only connintation to do with.... well Mass, and so weight, but not to do with numbers or size dimensions.
That is not the worse, I have one that I ALWAYS challenge people on, one word which when used in a term it seems to be used as now upsets me, and that word is.......................
Muppet. When used to mean something bad and crap.
I LOVE THE MUPPETS, and don't like it when people put them down. Please stop using this

O, about the question of the thread, yeah, you can't keep that city.

 

[Karakas]

Wait, aren't hypo- and hyper- opposite prefixes? I hadn't put much thought into it before, but I'm wondering now. What's the etymology of hypothesis, anyway?

erm... not a clue >_>

how'd this turn into a convo about words? XD

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

EDIT: The actual Etymology is of Greek and Latin Origions. Much like the rest of english. In this case Hypo and Hyper have actually been changed very little in the thousands of years of their usage. Which it should be said has only ever really been used by the educated. And since the educated over these thousands of years are not like to change their meanings or pronunciation, they've remained basically the same. Only in recent years (last 100 or so) has the populace become more educated as to their use....... but this education without acedemic disapline (much like most of english) results in the twisting of origional concepts and meanings. Like how Gay now means homosexual instead of happy and joyous. A word in the vernacular gets twisted, despite its proper acedemic origions or main usage. The Vox Populoi tends to distort, even if educated. So, edcuation of the masses has been good for society, bad for language in general.

See? See? We (the Western world) are just parts of a sprawling Greek civilization on God's PC.

Boy, I'm glad FfH wasn't available in 4004 BC, when He clicked on New Game. I dun need no Giant Spider lurking in my garden.

 

[Maian]

I don't care about language correctness, since I find the nature of how languages evolve fascinating. Even all the "lol", "kewl", "u", etc. are interesting, even leetspeech.

But I can empathize. There are 3 perspectives here. From a linguist perspective (I'm not a linguist tho), it's a gold mine. From an English prof perspective, it's a disaster. And then there are people who don't give a ****.

 

[ydejin]

i may just try the great bard idea, or the prophets, seeing as the only way out is to die >_<

Try producing Disciple/Thane/Zealot units. The +20 they contribute when making a "Great Work" can make a big difference over time. If all your cities start pumping them out you will start seeing a difference in your city radii. Depending on how overwhelming your opponents culture is, you may need to to sacrifice 4-5 disciple units before you start seeing a difference.