a hyperthetical situation

[Chandrasekhar]

At least for delving into special relativity, it was explained to us as having 3 basic findings:

Length Contraction
Time Dialation
and one other that I can't remember, and my text is buried in a box somewhere in my room.

The experiment you describe I think is the one they used to show Time Dialation, but they can't show the others through experiment I think...

Yay for special relativity.

Could the third be the increase in mass? And I believe that length contraction can be shown. I recall an experiment way back in the day when they still thought that light waves travelled in an omnipresent medium called the "ether." It involved two perpendicular light beams bounced off a series of mirrors. The pathes of the light beams were measured very exactly to make sure that they were both equal. The scientists then looked for the difference in the time it took them to reach their destinations because of the orbital direction of the Earth being added to one of the light beam's speed. It was found that they reached their destinations in equal amounts of time, despite the Earth's orbit.

Doesn't this demonstrate length contraction? I just recalled the experiment when you mentioned it, so I might be wrong. I'll try to look for a diagram of it.

 

[Sareln]

Could the third be the increase in mass? And I believe that length contraction can be shown. I recall an experiment way back in the day when they still thought that light waves travelled in an omnipresent medium called the "ether." It involved two perpendicular light beams bounced off a series of mirrors. The pathes of the light beams were measured very exactly to make sure that they were both equal. The scientists then looked for the difference in the time it took them to reach their destinations because of the orbital direction of the Earth being added to one of the light beam's speed. It was found that they reached their destinations in equal amounts of time, despite the Earth's orbit.

Doesn't this demonstrate length contraction? I just recalled the experiment when you mentioned it, so I might be wrong. I'll try to look for a diagram of it.

Entirely possible. I just dunno anymore... that part was kinda a blur since it was first semester frosh year. Though for what it's worth we were just as likely to examine relatavistic rhinos instead of spaceships!

 

[Xuenay]

Boy, I'm glad FfH wasn't available in 4004 BC, when He clicked on New Game. I dun need no Giant Spider lurking in my garden.

Well, the wild Giant Spiders probably would've been mostly eradicated by now. Though you could still find in a zoo the one that was captured back in 2000 BC.

Like how Gay now means homosexual instead of happy and joyous.

"To him the opposite of gay was depressed."

 

[Maian]

From my limited understanding, wouldn't it be the opposite? You're now further away from the center of the earth, and therefore have a lesser attractive force pulling you downward (towards center) than if you were elsewhere?

Oops my bad, you're right. It's both due to the slightly increased distance from earth's center and the slightly increased centripedal acceleration. I'm not a physicist tho, so don't quote me on that.

 

[Jono]

Trivia: Did you know that if you went to the equator, you gain weight? The earth isn't perfectly spherical and in fact has a "beer belly". That's not to mention that earth is also obviously not flat (otherwise the earth would look completely blue).

This was caused by the increasingly long time the earth has been spinning. The equator was pushed outwards causing the poles to move inwards.

I'm gonna suffer in high school (high school is 3 years in Israel, starting at 10th grade)... I have to take physics as one of my main classes.

 

[Sareln]

This was caused by the increasingly long time the earth has been spinning. The equator was pushed outwards causing the poles to move inwards.

I'm gonna suffer in high school (high school is 3 years in Israel, starting at 10th grade)... I have to take physics as one of my main classes.

Oh come'on, basic physics isn't that bad. Of course, I'll assume for your credit that American High School Physics < Israeli High School Physics. Don't focus on how bad it's gonna be, instead try and find interesting things to spur your interest in the subject.

 

[chocmushroom]

hahahaha
And there was I thinking I'd get comments on how great Muppets are, not about mass.
I was going to respond to the first post about my mass/weight comment that I did know the difference which is why I put it the way I did, to keep things simple. I've now come back and seen all these other post, is this a games or physics forum? I'm glad there are so many clever people playing this game. What I've found in the past 15 years is that the majority of people who play fantasy games have a very scientific mind and are routed in the real world. It seems to me that this makes them very good at dealing with things that are fantasy, maybe it's a good release for them.

 

[QES]

Just remember one thing. People and geopolitical economic institutions dont kill people, physics and biology does.

Seriously though, physics is good for the mind, starts the processes that can unlock the essences of the universe. Besides it gets really fun if you get past euclidean gemoetry and newtonian physics.

-Qes

 

[dreiche2]

about the usage of words:
massive used in that context is just used figuratively, to create the association of mass, and I don't see a problem with that. (btw, you should not use 'bit' non-litterally either )

about the analogy: I think the point is that space time gets curved, so you can simply take that picture and imagine the curvature caused by some other force than gravity. There is no analogy that would explain *why* mass acts that way on space time, after all...

about the experiments with the mirrors: That's the Michelson-Morley experiment, and it's finding was that the speed of light is constant in both direction (parallel earths movement and perpendicular to it), which ruled out that there is some aether through which the light travels.

(as long as the earth moves through this aether and it is not in rest relative to earth).

No length contraction here, as far as I can see..

Oh and btw the most prominent effects of special relativity are probably the length contraction and time dilatation, however these actually follow from the constancy of light (and some other assumptions)... so the latter is probably more the actual foundation of special relativity

 

[Moon Hunter]

in Ali G style>

Like this whole talk is so Massive. Respect.

 

[QES]

I just want to say that because I feel somewhat (completely) responcible for having this thread turn into a disscusion and study on language, etemology and physics, that I think that Civ fans seem to be some of the brightest, creative and scholarly individuals I've had the pleasure to never meet.

Keep on Keepin on Ladies and Dorks,
-Qes
Cheif Dork of Geektopia

EDIT: I also note that this Etymology, Physics and Language discussion is being held in a world wide venue. Funny considering English is the language being used, but not necessarily the native language of everyone envolved, Physics is nicely universal, despite specific terms and destricptions often requiring english (or german) nomenclature.

EDIT2: With all this love for knowledge, science, scholarship and the future, why do idiots rule the world, and why dont we have a moon colony or Mars mission yet??!?

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

about the usage of words:
massive used in that context is just used figuratively, to create the association of mass, and I don't see a problem with that. (btw, you should not use 'bit' non-litterally either )

about the analogy: I think the point is that space time gets curved, so you can simply take that picture and imagine the curvature caused by some other force than gravity. There is no analogy that would explain *why* mass acts that way on space time, after all...

about the experiments with the mirrors: That's the Michelson-Morley experiment, and it's finding was that the speed of light is constant in both direction (parallel earths movement and perpendicular to it), which ruled out that there is some aether through which the light travels.

(as long as the earth moves through this aether and it is not in rest relative to earth).

No length contraction here, as far as I can see..

Oh and btw the most prominent effects of special relativity are probably the length contraction and time dilatation, however these actually follow from the constancy of light (and some other assumptions)... so the latter is probably more the actual foundation of special relativity

Lorenz contraction was "developed" (english is not my first language )to secure the concept of an aether, which becomes undedectable because of length contraction and time dilatation...






(sorry...)

 

[Jono]

Oh come'on, basic physics isn't that bad. Of course, I'll assume for your credit that American High School Physics < Israeli High School Physics. Don't focus on how bad it's gonna be, instead try and find interesting things to spur your interest in the subject.

My brother just finished high school, I have references from mutual friends who took the same course "/.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

(btw, you should not use 'bit' non-litterally either )

Heh, I had that same thought as I typed it up. Then I decided that it was safe enough, no one was going to point it out to me. I went to bed last night thinking that I got off scott-free, but noooo...

Lorenz contraction was "developed" (english is not my first language ) to secure the concept of an aether, which becomes undedectable because of length contraction and time dilatation...

Yes, that was the train of thought that I followed, as well.

EDIT2: With all this love for knowledge, science, scholarship and the future, why do idiots rule the world, and why dont we have a moon colony or Mars mission yet??!?

Idiots rule the world because the wise know that becoming a ruler merely makes you a slave to the people. Or something like that.

 

[QES]

@Chand~ Too true.

 

[Civkid1991]

Well it looks like we're all demicrats here

 

[QES]

Well it looks like we're all demicrats here

<Sigh> Demicrats? Sort of underlords? Demi = "kind of" Crat = Type of rule.
Demicrats is "sort of rulers".

Wait......actually i think this might be more accurate than Democrat.

I'm officially joining the Demicrat party. Im with you kid.
-Qes

 

[Jono]

Well, if the leader is a slave to the people, us being the people, then yes, we're demicrats

 

[dreiche2]

hey now that we`re off topic anyway. Anyone knows if inflation ever stops to increase? Otherwise you can't play forever... also I wonder if it is too high too fast...

 

[QES]

Is it possible to be off topic in a thread titled "A Hyperthetical Situation?"

But anyway, Inflation has always seemed to me to be a wierd function. I've NO idea how to control it or what needs to be done to reduce it. It does seem like its a compound issue, and if someone has knowledge as to how it works in CIV i'd love to hear it.
-Qes