A Modest proposal: Units Expansion Mod

[CivisTexanus]

Ok, I'm new here (hi everybody) and maybe this idea has been batted around and discarded, but here's the Civ I want to play. I don't know how I'm going to do all this, but I'm willing to learn. It just might take me a spell.

I know some think we already have too many units, but I like playing on marathon, and am always seeing holes in the current unit tree. I like units, I like upgrading my troops, and general warmongering, and I like a sense of historical verisimilitude. So my proposal is to fill in the gaps (as I see them) with the 'missing' units that Firaxis missed; starting with content from official mods and then using community created content. I'd like to thank Dale, Wolfshanze, and Ninja2 for their inspirational mods that got me thinking, 'I can do this!'

At first pass, these are the units I want to add for version 1, in the format:
Proposed Unit
historical exmplar
possible key tech(s)
upgrades to

Land Units:
Classical Pikemen
Macedonian Sarissamen
Iron Working
Renaissance Pikes (at engineering)

Horsemen
Companion Cavalry
Horse Riding, Bronze Working
Heavy Horsemen

Heavy Horsemen
Clibanarius, Gothic Cavalry
Horse Riding, Metal Casting
Mailed Knights

Mailed Knights
Norman Chivalry (1066)
as H. Horsemen + Feudalism
Gothic Knights

Heavy Knights
Full plate armored cavalry, War of the Roses
As Mailed Knights + Guilds
Curiassier

Armored Horse Archer
Byzantine Cataphractoi, Turkish Sipahi
As Horse Archers + Metal Casting
Curiassier

Bombard
early bronze siege guns
Gunpowder + Engineering
Cannon

Harquebusier
matchlock smothbores, 1500's - 1600's
Gunpowder
Musketmen (which now require Gunpowder + Printing Press)

Organ Gun
the Ribauldequin was used by Edward III in France
Gunpowder + Engineering
Volley Gun

Volley Gun
the French mitrailleuse early 1800's
Steel + Rifling
Gatling Gun

Gatling Gun
Spanish American War Gatling guns (1898)
Railroad
Machine Gun (at Assembly Line)

More to come, please stay tuned...

Questions, comments, flames?

 

[moopoo]

I like. Although from what i'd seen you generally stick this in with a couple of other changes (more civics, say, or an expanded tech tree) and make a general mod.

But yeah. I really like.

 

[Shiggs713]

I like all those except maybe Volley Gun. I know it was real, but was it ever an effective weapon of war?

I agree with moopoo as well. Maybe a few more civic options and a few more techs along with new units would be great.

 

[TheLastOne36]

May i request Hussars and Rail Guns while your at it?

 

[CivisTexanus]

Thanks for the support everybody!

Moopoo: Oh yeah, I'm thinking of doing two versions, One with just the units (and the new techs to support them) and a doublepulsgood version with Dale's combat mod, new Civs, and anything else that strikes my fancy.

Shiggs713: Well, the French failed to develop a doctrine to use the thing as an infantry support weapon, and instead gave the things to artillerymen who wouldn't get within the effective range of their own guns. However the Belgians used them to great effect as fortress guns, which is what they should be doing as a machine gun precursor in Civ anyway!

TheLastOne36: Well, I'm not set up to MAKE units right now, I'm really looking at compiling the nifty stuff others have done up, but I'll keep my eyes open. Is it possible to restrict a unit to rail lines? 'Cause I would like to see a Dora to bombard enemy cities with. Now Hussars, between Curiassiers and Cavalry?

 

[lugaru]

Stone Axemen
Aztec and Native warriors
Bronze Working
Axeman (with copper or iron)

Wooden Spearman
Native spearmen
Bronze Working
Spearman (with copper or iron)

Basically these two are slightly less powerful and less expensive versions of the regular unit, just so that you arent completely crippled by not spawning near metal.

Ballista
Several examples in europe
Construction
Cannon (with copper or iron)

Siege unit, no collateral, good vs mounted units. Pretty much the feeling I've gotten from playing medieval 2

Battering Ram
Another classic
Iron Working
Ballista (with Construction)

Usless in combat (1 attack?) but able to reduce defenses early on in the game.

 

[CivisTexanus]

Also, just so I can start playing around, what are the favored utilities for viewing and editing CIV art files?

 

[CivisTexanus]

Stone Axemen
Aztec and Native warriors
Bronze Working
Axeman (with copper or iron)

Wooden Spearman
Native spearmen
Bronze Working
Spearman (with copper or iron)

Basically these two are slightly less powerful and less expensive versions of the regular unit, just so that you arent completely crippled by not spawning near metal.

Ballista
Several examples in europe
Construction
Cannon (with copper or iron)

Siege unit, no collateral, good vs mounted units. Pretty much the feeling I've gotten from playing medieval 2

Battering Ram
Another classic
Iron Working
Ballista (with Construction)

Usless in combat (1 attack?) but able to reduce defenses early on in the game.

I like! I've been thinking about ways to expand the stone age game my own self. What about a way to delay stone walls so that you build wooden palisades first? Then brick, then stone? Worth it? Doable?

 

[GoodGame]

Good ideas. Will you be basing this from BTS or another?

Most of your horse ideas would be excellent.
An alternative, or secondary, means of adding more spice would be to use the same base unit (e.g. knight) and mod some techs to give particular units a free promotion. Especially good if some of the techs are side-branch dead-ends. For instance with the knights, you could still use the base knight unit, but have an armor tech that gives it a free promotion; I'd assume a Drill 1 or even Drill 2 would be appropriate for modding heavier armor.

I'd also like to see more siege engines, especially the bronze cannon.

And on the ballista, there is an even earlier man-portal one called the Scorpion, that the Romans used regularly as part of their legions. I'd make it cheap give it something like a strength 1, but 150% versus melee. Basically a cheap suicide siege.

Have you checked out Wolfshanze's mod? Merging with that will fill in the holes in the Industrial era.

 

[CivisTexanus]

Good ideas. Will you be basing this from BTS or another?

Most of your horse ideas would be excellent.
An alternative, or secondary, means of adding more spice would be to use the same base unit (e.g. knight) and mod some techs to give particular units a free promotion. Especially good if some of the techs are side-branch dead-ends. For instance with the knights, you could still use the base knight unit, but have an armor tech that gives it a free promotion; I'd assume a Drill 1 or even Drill 2 would be appropriate for modding heavier armor.

On the horse end I want to show that the standard knights in the game (with stereotypical plate armor) are the end of a long technological chain of development and don't spring full blown into the world with no antecedents. Also, they were only around for a few hundred years before falling victim to professional infantry with pikes, crossbows, and harquebuses. I do think we need more buildings that give promotions directly to certain units, taking inspiration from the total war series for example.

I'd also like to see more siege engines, especially the bronze cannon.

And on the ballista, there is an even earlier man-portal one called the Scorpion, that the Romans used regularly as part of their legions. I'd make it cheap give it something like a strength 1, but 150% versus melee. Basically a cheap suicide siege.

I think the scorpion is an example of something that should be represented with promotions, and yes it is a fine line. To me the scorpion is like the company level GPMG or mortar tube of its time; it complements a unit in the field rather than being an independent command. The battering ram on the other hand, while also close to that line, does represent the first historical siege engine and allows us to represent the unique unit for a possible Assyrian Civ, the Assyrian Siege Ram

Have you checked out Wolfshanze's mod? Merging with that will fill in the holes in the Industrial era.

Ummm, yes. (looks at OP)

 

[TheLastOne36]

TheLastOne36: Well, I'm not set up to MAKE units right now, I'm really looking at compiling the nifty stuff others have done up, but I'll keep my eyes open. Is it possible to restrict a unit to rail lines? 'Cause I would like to see a Dora to bombard enemy cities with. Now Hussars, between Curiassiers and Cavalry?

oh, i misunderstood your post.

I've seen mods that restrict units on railroads, and some even on roads. I'll try to find it.

As for the Hussar, it's been around since the 1400's. So i'm thinking between Knight-Cuirassier. Or in the mod, Heavy knights and Cuirassiers.

Edit: What about a Light Hussar, and a heavy hussar?

 

[CivisTexanus]

Ok after review of input, and sleeping on it a bit, here's the plan:

Step 1: Merge Ninja2's Merged mod with selected techs and units from Greek World, Alexander the Great, Peloponnesian War, Rise of Rome, and Charlemagne (maybe Genghis Khan, Vikings, and Chinese Unification too, I have to look) and test for stability.

Step 2: Trim down named unit list, forex the named flavor units in Wolfshanze can be made ethnic art styles (and the Katanaman and Ronin can go.) with no loss. I can identify a Tiger 1 without a special button to build it, it can just be the German heavy tank.

Step 3: Add easily downloadable units, playtest and tweak stats.

Step 4: If no model/skin available make it myself or beg someone else to. More tweaking and playtesting.

Step 5: Since the Merged mod comes with a 30+ Civ DLL, look for new Civs to add. (at first blush; Assyria, Sweden, Israel, Sioux, Iroquois, Cherokee, Texas, California, Gran Columbia, Empire of Brazil, Confederate States, Poland...)

Step 6: Examine possibility of expanding the Stone Age with new techs and units, and creating longer game mode (more turns for violence, yay!) Also look for cold war, post cold war, and near future units (and techs).

Step 7: Look for more units to add, more ethnic arts, more Civs, and maybe the possibility for two UU for EACH Civ, look for more mods to merge, tweak some more.

 

[CivisTexanus]

oh, i misunderstood your post.

I've seen mods that restrict units on railroads, and some even on roads. I'll try to find it.

As for the Hussar, it's been around since the 1400's. So i'm thinking between Knight-Cuirassier. Or in the mod, Heavy knights and Cuirassiers.

Edit: What about a Light Hussar, and a heavy hussar?

I don't know how just yet, but I aim to learn by working on this mod, just don't expect something right away

Well yes but as far as I understand Hussar just means heavy cavalry and could refer to any number of horse soldiers/warriors from Eastern Europe during about a thousand years, and even Western Europe once the name came into style. Which ones do YOU think of when you say the word? Plate armored lancers (like say polish Winged Hussars) or carbine and saber Napoleonic troopers?

 

[TheLastOne36]

I don't know how just yet, but I aim to learn by working on this mod, just don't expect something right away

Well yes but as far as I understand Hussar just means heavy cavalry and could refer to any number of horse soldiers/warriors from Eastern Europe during about a thousand years, and even Western Europe once the name came into style. Which ones do YOU think of when you say the word? Plate armored lancers (like say polish Winged Hussars) or carbine and saber Napoleonic troopers?

I'm Polish, so i'm biased and think of Winged Hussar when i say the word. (and i'm often seen on this forum claiming they were the best calvary in the world from the 1500's - 1700's)

Heavy Hussars are usually used to term the "Polish winged Hussar" but there aren't much other Heavy Hussars that i know about, (if any at all). So maybe just keeping it a UU of Poland?

some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar
and an image of a British Hussar, which isn't in armour.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Cornet_Wilkin_11th_Hussars.jpg

Found the mod that makes artillery only go on Railroads:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267632&highlight=railroad
It also makes catapults go on roads.

Also, i'm curious, why did you choose the Confederate States, Texas and California? imo it might make non-Americans stay away from your mod. It would for me.

And while i'm at it, Why is Poland last on that list?

Spoiler just in case :

 

[CivisTexanus]

The winged Hussar would be a Polish UU (Heavy Knights), while Napoleonic Hussars might be a light cavalry?

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out!

'Cause the List is in no particular order? Maybe 'Cause of my Handle? Yes I'm Aware of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, I'm also aware that Gustavus Adolphus used it as a punching bag, and Sweden didn't remain a great power for long either, but both are neat and full of historical flavor.

Why so many new world Civs? Because the Old World is already fairly well represented. Poland and Sweden are the only European Civs I can think of right now that aren't already covered somehow. I think I want another Indian/Central Asian Civ (Kushans? Nepal? Baktrians?), Maybe a Steppes Civs (Scythians, Parthians, Sarmartians), and maybe another Far East/Chinese (???).

 

[TheLastOne36]

Why so many new world Civs? Because the Old World is already fairly well represented. Poland and Sweden are the only European Civs I can think of right now that aren't already covered somehow. I think I want another Indian/Central Asian Civ (Kushans? Nepal? Baktrians?), Maybe a Steppes Civs (Scythians, Parthians, Sarmartians), and maybe another Far East/Chinese (???).

then put in Mexico, Canada, Argentina, real civs, not states

For Steppes i'd go for Scythians, and for Far east, i'd go with Siam, Vietnam or Burma. It also Appears your going to break up the Native Americans. Why not break up the Indians while your at it? You can put in the Mughals, Indus valley people etc.

Also did you consider Polynesia, Morocco and another African civ?

 

[CivisTexanus]

then put in Mexico, Canada, Argentina, real civs, not states

Meh. If I'm going to add Civs I'm going to add ones I would consider playing, or wouldn't mind seeing on the score board or in the game. Argentina could fit, They at least went to war with the British, and don't crowd out anyone else. Canada, maybe, at least there ain't a lot of other Civs vying for the frozen north. Mexico runs into the sits right on top of the Aztecs problem. By adding in multiple groups in NA I can give the proto Americans a challenge when I make a giant earth scenario. Actually, I think I'll drop Cali and replace it with Deseret if someone has an animated Brigham Young Leaderhead.

For Steppes i'd go for Scythians, and for Far east, i'd go with Siam, Vietnam or Burma. It also Appears your going to break up the Native Americans. Why not break up the Indians while your at it? You can put in the Mughals, Indus valley people etc.

Scythians it is. India, what to do with India. We don't have much evidence for what the Indus Valley/Harrapans called themselves, what they called their cities, or (most importantly) how they fought. And the 'empires' of Indian history are really successive dynasties of the same civilization, speaking the same language, reading and writing it, and practicing the same religions. They have remarkable cultural continuity after the major Vedic incursion. I could see MAYBE separating out Nepal, Rajputs, Bengal, Sikhs, Mughals, and the Sinhala, but not all at once.

Also did you consider Polynesia, Morocco and another African civ?

LOL, lets not put the cart in front of the horse here. Let me get some of the initial steps completed before we start really thinking about this. Argh, I just spent over an hour researching this post so I wouldn't talking out of my ass

 

[moopoo]

As an indian myself, I would suggest leaving current india as it is, and putting in a Pakistan, maybe a Mughal Empire. I get the impression from the game that Civ India represents India as a British Colonial state and then their independence and rising prominence (despite Asoka being a leader). Their fast worker best highlights this. Half of those that you put there are now just a part of india (Rajputs, Bengal, Sikhs, yeah? I don't live in india so i'm not sure ). If you wanted Sinhala, Sri Lanka would probly be my fav option.

Lol sorry for such a long post on what is really on one (small) point But i say, go Pakistan. They would fill the gap between the middle east and the rest of asia

 

[lugaru]

Both Mexico and Poland exist as really good modular Civs so dont even worry about them, if you want them then just plug and play.

 

[Shiggs713]

so do almost all the north american civs, indians included.

some aren't modular, but almost all the civs you mentioned have already been made somewhere on this forum.