A new, 4th affinity?

[Ryika]

There is already a fourth affinity and it has 3 victory cut scenes.Ryika or Gaia just needs to add domination affinity points to techs that give units or military buildings. I would also count strategic resources and dual use buildings like domes and nodes. The victory wonder (War Memorial) would allow the player to build any unit that they have the affinity points for, and since domination would include all military units, the player could at that point use them all. Can you say roll stomp!

Classifying "Domination" as a fourth Affinity doesn't really make sense in my opinion. I guess you could classify it as a "subcategory" of the Affinities, because Empires that go for Domination have decided that their primary goal is to make sure they own the planet instead of focusing on the actual Affinity-related Goal, but it's not in itself an Affinity. Any Empire that focuses on conquering the planet still focuses on one or two Affinities that are the driving forces behind their motives, and I think it's pretty clear that they will go back to achieving their Affinity-Related goal after making sure they have full control of the planet, even though that's not reflected in the domination victory itself.

 

[Guide-on]

In order to have dynamic balance, you need to have a forth affinity that would be the opposite of supremacy. Purity's kill all the aliens and terrascape the world into the new Earth is dynamically opposed to the never kill an alien and become a new species of the planet we are at. Supremacy does not care. We need a affinity that is willing to go to war to stop supremacy, and that supremacy would be willing to destroy. Think of the four elements. Earth is opposed to air and fire is opposed to water.

 

[Guide-on]

I've had such an idea since before Beyond Earth came out, though I now view the hybrid system as superior to and likely incompatible with it.

It is called Discovery, and it is built on a possible response to the Progenitors.

Adherents to the affinity would be fascinated by the fact that humanity is not alone in the universe, that a more advanced civilization exists.

They would idolize the Progenitors, from what they could learn of them, as a perfectly developed civilization - the peak of knowledge, culture, and philosophy.

As such they would emphasize studying and emulating Progenitor culture, technology, and even possibly genetics, dismissing other paths as dead ends to perfection.

From this they would discover Psionic technologies, and their armies would have a theme of adept support units and experimental, somewhat fragile units using technology that is not fully understood.

Their cities and general aesthetic would have a sort of pseudo-religious theme, ideally references the Xcom EU Ethereals and their Temple Ship.

The colors of the affinity would be a deep purple and white.
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To fit the hybrid system, I think a pairing of two affinities should be maintained to keep distinct themes possible.

In order to truly fit a new affinity would need to have believable and sufficient influence and differences from both its parents, provide a coherent and unique outlook on humanity's future, and not overlap with existing hybrids or primary affinities to the point of redundancy.

Nothing I've seen for a fourth affinity meets those standards.

I have a similar idea. In it , however, the Purity faction would think of the Progenitors a tyrants and would fight to stop any contact before we reach their technological level. The Contactors or Discover affinity would fight to prevent any takeover by the Purist (Purity) since they would outlaw contact. Nano-tech/bio-warfare used in the Great Mistake would cause all to agree that you can have either genetic change OR cybernetic change, but NOT both. There would be no H/S hybrid or P/D (P/C) hybrids. Any affinity you choose would have a built in enemy. After 12 affinity, you would be at war with someone!

 

[Imaus]

I mean, the three affinities are the common scifi trifecta. The biological, the technological, and the normal. The Zerg, Protoss, Humanity. Scrin, Nod, GDI. Flood, Covenant, UNSC. Etc, etc. It's a old motif.

Ya'll heard it all before but it would had been better if they went along with the ideological-national mix from SMAC. Yang was the dystopian totalitarian China prediction, Pal the humanistic pan-democratic global India, etc, etc.

 

[Guide-on]

Whither you go for 3 or 4 affinities, you still need a built in enemy. What would make Supremacy want to destroy either Purity or Harmony Purity might decide at either or both of the other are anti-human, but I don't see any reason for Supremacy to care what happens to the other 2 unless they went Borg and wanted to assimilate everyone.

 

[meatball20]

affinity looks good to me. Diplomatic capital is weak though, buy spies not military, buy culture plots from opponent and force an alliance unless...

 

[Guide-on]

Classifying "Domination" as a fourth Affinity doesn't really make sense in my opinion. I guess you could classify it as a "subcategory" of the Affinities, because Empires that go for Domination have decided that their primary goal is to make sure they own the planet instead of focusing on the actual Affinity-related Goal, but it's not in itself an Affinity. Any Empire that focuses on conquering the planet still focuses on one or two Affinities that are the driving forces behind their motives, and I think it's pretty clear that they will go back to achieving their Affinity-Related goal after making sure they have full control of the planet, even though that's not reflected in the domination victory itself.

The question is however, can you give affinity points for any forth affinity without using python (i.e. source code). If so would it be lua or xml.

 

[MysticWind]

I think you can look at the existing affinities from two levels:

The ideology itself: how should humanity colonize a new world? What form of adaptation should it be? What is mankind's destiny?

The sci-fi aesthetics that come with it: I think the ideologies are just excuses for nifty aesthetics and whizz-bang tech. Harmony makes the most sense, evolving humanity to physically adapt to the new world. Supremacy the least, why does embrace of A.I. and cybernetics naturally follow? What about, say, transhumanism using genes from Earth-based species? Or just drastically terraforming the planet, Red Mars-style?

I haven't looked at the ideologies of proposed 4th affinities too exhaustively, but I get the impression that most of them are just variations of the first three, or go off in directions that don't fit the scope of what the original three were exploring. I'm not sure how to really come up with another goal, since the original three are just 1) keep the baseline human status quo, 2) evolve on planet's terms, 3) evolve on humanity's terms. Which sort of captures most angles.

But I think you can definitely think of more sci-fi aesthetics. For instance, what about units that aren't very genetically engineered, but are augmented with a wide variety of performance-enhancing drugs and nootropics, embracing better living through chemicals? So like the juicers from the Rifts setting. Or instead of augmenting your own people, creating armies of biological "robots" to work and die for you, either vat-bred clones or something more mechanical, like replicants. Psionic-focused aesthetics based on psychic attacks and taming the planet's beasts. An aesthetics involving nanomachines and nanomods.

I think there's an unlimited number of sci-fi ideas for the aesthetics of new affinities. The ideological goals themselves, not sure.

 

[tsf4]

Making a short comment here, but it seems like every affinity has to kill aliens because they are so heckin numerous lol. I used to imagine harmony as becoming one with aliens and studying them.

I do think there are uses for other affinities as long as playstyle changes. I don’t want more of them that still have to kill aliens. They are so numerous it drives me nuts.

 

[Guide-on]

Harmony should be penalized for killing aliens. The kill 10 aliens quest should be capture 10 aliens for Harmony. The reward might be that the aliens would NOT count against your unit count.

This could lead to Harmony DoWing on Purity or Supremacy for killing aliens.

 

[Kaushad]

In my game, aliens aren't much of a problem towards the end, even following non-harmony affinities. I get to keep an alien-friendly policy and say "Oh no, the other civs are using their navies to exterminate them," and then they're gone. It only really matters when the big ones pillage improvements or when their area of control slows down the earthling settlers.

 

[vorlon_mi]

I agree that the Harmony affinity should get a different quest, like "Leash 10 Aliens". The biome / planet type seems to matter as well. For some types, the alien nests are plentiful and the aliens spawn quickly. For others, the aliens spawn more slowly and the AI typically kill them for the experience. Especially on a larger world with more AI, it doesn't matter if I have a "live and let live" mindset.

 

[MysticWind]

1. The more I think about it, the more I don't really understand Supremacy as presented by the game. As per my earlier post, I think it's just an affinities thing to set up the classic flesh vs. steel trope. I get why Harmony involves bio-engineering, but I think it's specific to bioengineering with alien wildlife, which makes sense. You're evolving with the planet, or evolving to be closer to it. Maybe a little bit of James Cameron's Avatar. But Supremacy is strange to me. Why turn people into cyborgs and robots, instead of genetic engineering with purely Earth species? Or pursuing any of the other sci-fi ideas I mentioned? It feels solely based on aesthetics.

2. I think instead of trying to come out with a new affinity, people should try fleshing out the hybrid affinities more and figure out what exactly they mean.

 

[Imaus]

1. The more I think about it, the more I don't really understand Supremacy as presented by the game. As per my earlier post, I think it's just an affinities thing to set up the classic flesh vs. steel trope. I get why Harmony involves bio-engineering, but I think it's specific to bioengineering with alien wildlife, which makes sense. You're evolving with the planet, or evolving to be closer to it. Maybe a little bit of James Cameron's Avatar. But Supremacy is strange to me. Why turn people into cyborgs and robots, instead of genetic engineering with purely Earth species? Or pursuing any of the other sci-fi ideas I mentioned? It feels solely based on aesthetics.

2. I think instead of trying to come out with a new affinity, people should try fleshing out the hybrid affinities more and figure out what exactly they mean.

Supremacy means freedom from the very hostile, very incompatible biosphere. It allows for a wider range of adaptability (at leas tin the short term). Need to go to the bottom of the ocean? Make a strong enough chassis. need to fight in Space? Suit up. Need a worker to turn into a combat warrior? Strap a automatic gun on him. Purity does this, too, but is restricted by the limits of the human body, while supremacy may in time go beyond that, without relying on robotics like in the hybrid Purity-Supremacy.

Also there aren't enough terran species left to splice or rianth from, I'll imagine, lost in the collapse.

 

[Guide-on]

I was thinking that the 3 affinities used different science. Biology/gene splicing for Harmony, Computer science for Supremacy, and mechanical(or possibly arts) for Purity. You would also have a General science that would apply to all. Each tech would require certain amounts of its special science, and the different planetary features (like Fraxite or fiber), and buildings would give science to only one of the three sciences. You would need to maximize the type of science you needed, which would affect game play. Also, some techs that give affinity buildings would NOT be on the OP path, and would not be near the best affinity units. Decisions: Decisions!

 

[Protok St]

I was thinking that the 3 affinities used different science. Biology/gene splicing for Harmony, Computer science for Supremacy, and mechanical(or possibly arts) for Purity. You would also have a General science that would apply to all. Each tech would require certain amounts of its special science, and the different planetary features (like Fraxite or fiber), and buildings would give science to only one of the three sciences. You would need to maximize the type of science you needed, which would affect game play. Also, some techs that give affinity buildings would NOT be on the OP path, and would not be near the best affinity units. Decisions: Decisions!

What is the principle difference between your "Affinity Science" and existed Affinity Points?

 

[Guide-on]

Affinity science would be needed/used for research on techs that give you affinity points. Affinity research points would be like virtue points.

 

[Meatball2095]

With the affinities units upgrades being so random and new ideas are needed I suggest removing the upgrade system and add a fourth affinity. They increase their bonus with each level of affinity earned with the first one adding to attack, second defence melee, third defence ranged and the fourth is healing. Also adding national wonders or two for each affinity such as movement, masima bonus, city attack and defence, sight, cost production and energy and maintaince, and promotions. There are a lot of nice units except they tend to overlap usage and are monotonus. For the love of drone command and alert workers should be national wonders and more artifact rewards please. As of the culture tree some of the ideas are fruitful and others are wasted, needs more alien rewards along with diplomatic capitol kills should be 50 not 5. At last sattelites tweaking by making them tougher in combat and area of effect could shrink and get stronger with age. 4 bits 2 cents 0 rules.

 

[vorlon_mi]

During my last game, I took a bunch of notes on the buffs / upgrades that various units get, to put them into a spreadsheet. When that's done, I will post it to the forum. I noticed that -- for some units, anyway -- the hybrid affinity buffs were combinations of the individual affinity buffs. That would have been my intent, if I were designing it.

BERT re-imagined its upgrade system, in contrast with the previous titles in the franchise. For Civ3, 4, 5 (that I have the most experience playing), units advanced through repeated combat. [Civ4 Great Generals were an exception] The player would pay gold to upgrade a unit into a later generation of unit. Here, the upgrades are "free" when you gain enough affinity levels, either through research or expedition rewards. Instead of keeping multiple generations of units in the game -- think Civ5 crossbows, Gatling guns, and machine guns -- BERT has core categories of units (siege, ranged, infantry, tanks) that all upgrade in unison. Innovative choice.

While I would like to get the +1 range promotion for my Ranger/Gunner regardless of which affinity I choose, the designers chose to make that one of the consequences of my affinity choice.

If a 4th affinity were added, we could also have 4 more hybrid affinity classes added, which I'm not sure would be a step forward. My preference would be to add more units with potential hybrid affinity buffs, plus tweak the existing buffs a bit.

 

[Meatball2095]

During my last game, I took a bunch of notes on the buffs / upgrades that various units get, to put them into a spreadsheet. When that's done, I will post it to the forum. I noticed that -- for some units, anyway -- the hybrid affinity buffs were combinations of the individual affinity buffs. That would have been my intent, if I were designing it.

BERT re-imagined its upgrade system, in contrast with the previous titles in the franchise. For Civ3, 4, 5 (that I have the most experience playing), units advanced through repeated combat. [Civ4 Great Generals were an exception] The player would pay gold to upgrade a unit into a later generation of unit. Here, the upgrades are "free" when you gain enough affinity levels, either through research or expedition rewards. Instead of keeping multiple generations of units in the game -- think Civ5 crossbows, Gatling guns, and machine guns -- BERT has core categories of units (siege, ranged, infantry, tanks) that all upgrade in unison. Innovative choice.

While I would like to get the +1 range promotion for my Ranger/Gunner regardless of which affinity I choose, the designers chose to make that one of the consequences of my affinity choice.

If a 4th affinity were added, we could also have 4 more hybrid affinity classes added, which I'm not sure would be a step forward. My preference would be to add more units with potential hybrid affinity buffs, plus tweak the existing buffs a bit.

i suggest keeping the orginal 3 in that circle and add two barred affinites one for trade and worker units the other for the economies. Then redesign some of the wonders and artifacts so not to revolve around chinas technique and drone command and wake up pills. My gaming memory still cant remember upgrades a lot so I'm always planning new patterns on different diffilculties. In the meanwhile satteillites and orbital coverage are cool yet weak and could use some upgrading.