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A new, 4th affinity?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Blue3, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Blue3

    Blue3 Chieftain

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    A new, 4th affinity?

    Would anyone be in favor?

    What are some options for potential affinities aside from Supremacy, Purity, and Harmony?



    One I thought of is the "classical" space colonization option, for lack of a better word right now. Why do humans have to go to one of these 3 extremes, or even a hybrid of them? Why not just have an affinity that has the mindset of "let's build scattered 'bubbles' of human civilization across the new planet, domed cities, that inside are just like they were on Earth and humans don't need to adapt through genetics or cybernetics, but outside these islands of civilization the natural ecology and distinct geology of this new planet will be left untouched and in as pristine a condition as possible and not terraformed into a second Earth".
     
  2. Westwall

    Westwall Chieftain

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    For what purpose?

    That just sounds like a less ambitious Purity.
     
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Or, since you're leaving the planet in relatively pristine condition, the Purity-Harmony hybrid.
     
  4. Westwall

    Westwall Chieftain

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    Harmony isn't about leaving things alone though, it's about interacting and adapting.

    A Purity-Harmony hybrid would be more along the lines of harmonizing without becoming full-on alien.
     
  5. oldag07

    oldag07 Chieftain

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    It is a good idea. With hybrid affinities, I don't think they will do it. It just adds a lot more complexity. Not to mention that it would require a new resource and it would force Starships to change even more. However, it is still fun to imagine.

    Here is some good stuff I have found on other threads
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526319

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=547696

    I guess i can come up with some. I will be inspired by politics. The left vs the right.
    Collectivism- A society that works more and more as a group. More health
    Individualism- A society that celebrates the achievements of a small group of people. The elites. More culture.
     
  6. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    I've had such an idea since before Beyond Earth came out, though I now view the hybrid system as superior to and likely incompatible with it.

    It is called Discovery, and it is built on a possible response to the Progenitors.

    Adherents to the affinity would be fascinated by the fact that humanity is not alone in the universe, that a more advanced civilization exists.

    They would idolize the Progenitors, from what they could learn of them, as a perfectly developed civilization - the peak of knowledge, culture, and philosophy.

    As such they would emphasize studying and emulating Progenitor culture, technology, and even possibly genetics, dismissing other paths as dead ends to perfection.

    From this they would discover Psionic technologies, and their armies would have a theme of adept support units and experimental, somewhat fragile units using technology that is not fully understood.

    Their cities and general aesthetic would have a sort of pseudo-religious theme, ideally references the Xcom EU Ethereals and their Temple Ship.

    The colors of the affinity would be a deep purple and white.
    __________________________________________

    To fit the hybrid system, I think a pairing of two affinities should be maintained to keep distinct themes possible.

    In order to truly fit a new affinity would need to have believable and sufficient influence and differences from both its parents, provide a coherent and unique outlook on humanity's future, and not overlap with existing hybrids or primary affinities to the point of redundancy.

    Nothing I've seen for a fourth affinity meets those standards.
     
  7. Westwall

    Westwall Chieftain

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    PAC doesn't include Japan.
     
  8. Mount Suribachi

    Mount Suribachi Chieftain

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    Well, if you take the original SMAC factions as starting points

    Gaians = Harmony
    Cybernetic Conciousness = Supremacy
    There isn't really a Purity faction although Believers, UN, Morganites all incorporate a bit of it.

    So you've got the
    Pursuit of wealth and happiness (Morgan)
    Pursuit of knowledge (Zakharov)
    Collectivism (Yang)
    Peaceniks (UN)
    Religious promised land (Deidre)

    Not sure which would make the best 4th affinity
     
  9. Gritf

    Gritf Chieftain

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    The 3 affinities cover most of the answer about what path should humanity would become in this future, adding to that the different tech routes and virtues a civ grabs, so a fourth affinity might overlap too much with the current 3 while also breaking the unstable balance (in games wich are team oriented, a uneven amount of teams makes alliances shifty; for example: Risk, Starcraft, Magic: The Gathering).

    I know it might be a little too much to ask for an expansion, but maybe there could be room for alien factions the way SMAC had in its expansion, but with their own set of affinitties about how whe picture alien visitors might be. I would need some thought about that, but it might need its own tech web, unit and city designs and maybe virtues.

    Their evolutionary, technological and cultural level could be the same as humanity at that point, wich leaves room for the precursors to still be a mystery of unfathomable deepness.
     
  10. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    @Gritf

    More sponsors could address the teams issue, though I don't recall ever seeing the AI's work together in a meaningful way.

    Adding directly interacting with Aliens into the game would kind of distort the theme - of humanity's seeding efforts on the new world.

    I could maybe see it as part of an expansion focused on the late game with Contact as the gate to it, but I think it causes more theme problems than it is worth.
     
  11. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    From a pure gameplay perspective:

    We've got 8 Sponsors on a normal sized Map. Having 3 Affinities is exactly enough for 8 Sponsors to form meaningful alliances and fight mutual enemies. Add more to that and you'll have everyone do their own thing.
     
  12. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Arabian King

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    Divinity would be good 4th Affinity. It's nature focused, nature meaning the land ,the sea, and the space. The affinities are gained from techs related to the reforming of terrains, gaining of health, and how many satellites (eyes of god) are there in the sky.
     
  13. Gritf

    Gritf Chieftain

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    I believe sponsors don't add much to the game mechanic-wise but flavor-wise (don't know if those are actual words) since they don't really do much besides having their own quotes, sponsor, color for units and frames and a single UA.

    Meanwhile, having the 3 affinities does add to the game of alliances, at least in Single Player, since they play into important diplomatic modiffiers. I said before that having an uneven number of affinities is important, since it brings some unbalance to international affairs, in which neither coalition might gain the upper hand that easily without getting targeted by the rest of the factions.

    Visualize this:

    -In a duel match your opponent gains the upper hand and that's it, you're snowballed to death.
    -In a three people's match two of them might ally, but the moment one of them seems to be winning, the other party will side with the losing side and they pressure is always on whoever is winning anyway.
    -In a four ways match two team might decide that either one or the other are the only ones with the right to win, and they will wipe the other two before deciding the winner between themselves or even calling for a draw.

    Of course each of those events might occur whichever the number of factions, but the scenarios 1 and 3 become less likely when there is an uneven number of those, as well as having a big enough number of factions.

    Regardless, having too many affinities, since they are drawn from a certain filosophy, they eat a broad lot of ideas and "desing space", making each other less meaninful and different.

    Also, I just wanted to point out, the alien civs with their own subset of affinities, units and available techs idea was just a random suggestion, since the game has the tools of it. Maybe too ambitious and way out of the focus of this game, but it seemed fun to me for not mentioning it.
     
  14. Gritf

    Gritf Chieftain

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    Sorry, for putting this in another post, it's just that I didn't want to create a wall of text.

    Drawing from other sources of sci-fi I got the idea of three archetypes belonging to space civs wich may be used as affinities, just in case someone actually decided that there really needs to have more choices:

    Prominency:

    Spoiler :
    A battlebound civ whose ideal is strenght. They are not defined by conquest or manslaughter by itself, but in display of might, where the strong shall rule. The new planet offers challenges and the alien natives might prove useful allys, slaves or preys depending on their worthiness, and their human neightboors are measured by their merits on battle, or at least as merchantile assosiations to continue the campaign. They might look for justice or just for trouble, but as long as their high standards prevails so do they.

    They resemble both purity and supremacy in their pursuit of power to change the enviroment, but distance themselves in that might is and end in itself.

    Focus: Military, obviosuly, but not necesarily by being the best (after all what is the point in focusing on streght if you lack the knowledge and manwork to build it). They favor manufacturies, mines and domes because of their practicity, the ability to control the terrain and their inhabitans/resources and sometimes even to plunder and pillage from others. They seek to gain a backward benefit (the stronger their best unit is the more powerful they become as a whole). They also may look at unhealthyness without flinching.

    Weakness: Lack of scientific and cultural pursuit and wellfare of their population at large. Disregard for meaningless diplomacy and cooperation.


    Discernity:

    Spoiler :
    Those following the affinity of discernity will to master the secrets of the universe, either from a distant point of observation or by poking at its core and seeing their reaction. The search for knowledge is its own premise, and their way of ascending is the innermost: not by changing their bodies, but the understanding of the mysteries of this new planet and their need for survival here is a mean to continue their constant quest to explore it. Their people might see other with disdain as lesser and more primitive creatures, or with curiosity and acceptance of a fellow colleague.

    They resemble both supremacy and harmony in their perception of the nature of the cosmos, the enviroment and the human conciousness, but differ in their approach to remaking all around them. They take what they need to keep forward, and leave as it is or even discard what they already understood. Their mission is not towards the worls or their species, but as themselves as rational beings.

    Focus: Not just technologies, but exploration and subversion. As discerning beings the search for relics of the past and the present, maximizing the usefulness of expeditions and artifacts, even gaining other means to adquire them. There is also a preference for covert ops, althought they have the means to reach military advancements on short notice as the need raises. They favor, academies, generators and arrays.

    Weakness: Culture is somewhat of an afterthought, since ethics and commonfolk dilemmas sometimes stay in the way. Agressive expansion is often out of the question too. They at least remain flexible in that they might research a broad spectrum of mid-tier techs.


    Magnificency:

    Spoiler :
    Civs of this affinity already set a path long ago in wich theirs is the right way. It's not just about imposing change on themselves and the planet, but in uplifting everything around them. Even the dangerous wildlife might get a purpose by designing one for them. Of course their design is benevolent, at least from their own point of view.

    They resemble purity and harmony in the quest for the uplifting of all ways of life and the planet, but differ in that their goal is not human or alien in nature, instead it longs for a singularity of being and purpose.

    Focus: They favor improvements, better use of natural resources and alien wildlife, uplift being the key word here. They are the most approving of secundary affinities, and the benefits of health and growth. Magnificency also gets the best of biowells, terrascapes and nodes.

    Weakness: They lack something of defensive strucures and militia, having armies of glass cannons while also owning lands rich on resources and yields wich make them more coveted by their enemies. Due to their interference on the alien species and territorial borders, they also are more prone to draw ire from their neightboors (Currently wonking on a new mechanic tha might set this off).


    Those are just for suggestion and commentary, more about on a design standpoint on how about I would build a new affinity than what I just wrote here in a few minutes. I realize that I ended up writing for three new affinities, making a total of six in lieu of what I just said about an uneven number of affinities; it's just that I started with a theme and prefered to follow it rather than rethinking all of it.
     
  15. Metecury

    Metecury Chieftain

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    We need an affinity related to the development of psychic abilities and mind control. It could aim to build a collective mind perhaps or just a hierarchical society with the individuals with psychic abilities as leaders and the rest as mind controlled servants.
     
    cinattra likes this.
  16. LORD ORION

    LORD ORION Chieftain

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    Every idea I've read here is a shade or blend of the 3 affinities.

    Purity: Using technology to keep humans as they are.

    Supremacy: Incorporating technology directly into humans to allow them to adapt to any environment.

    Harmony: Genetically modifying humans to adapt to a specific environment.

    I'll toss in a 4th affinity.
    Some sort of evolution into beings of pure energy.
     
  17. Gritf

    Gritf Chieftain

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    It's true that most sound like a blend of the current affinities, or maybe a derivation of what one would get from following an specific virtue path.

    The idea of trascending a physical body and mind seems to me more like a development made by following a certain path long enough, as if in reaching a very, very distant tech, something not even the Starships game touches. Also, it sounds more speculative than filosophical, kind of reaching a singularity made by fulfilling all affinities to max level.

    Anyway, both pure energy beings and psychic powers sounds interesting, but how would they play mechanically?
     
  18. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

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    Ascension = extreme evolutionary process whereby the human consciousness becomes pure energy and rises to a higher plane of existence, abandoning the planet - and the material universe as a whole.
     
  19. LORD ORION

    LORD ORION Chieftain

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    They use Energy for Food
    Science for Culture
    Culture for Production
    Production for Science

    Or something like that... since we are in the "this is actually impossible" zone, any argument for what input is used for what output is permissible.

    eg: You could easily argue they use Energy for Production and Culture for Food as energy beings.

    :D
     
  20. Barathor

    Barathor Chieftain

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    I had an idea of a fourth affinity before the expansion, but I think the new hybrid system is much better.

    At first I thought I’d miss the pure affinity representations since they were so distinct -- empires each filled with flavorful units and improvements that contrast the others is pretty cool, but it seems like Firaxis is handling things well and won’t disappoint. A fourth unique affinity would’ve diversified things more, but now with hybrids with their own unique identities, we’ve basically doubled the amount of flavors (even if they overlap a little bit).

    DIVINITY


    First, this would've introduced psionics to the game for all players, complete with its own perk tree, yields, and all; somewhat like faith/religion in Civ 5.

    Red adamantite would become Purity's affinity resource and purple Floatstone would be renamed to Etherium or Etherite (ether = upper regions of the sky -- fitting) and be Divinity's affinity resource.

    Psionics start to emerge from exposure to etherium on the new planet and awakens dormant abilities within some humans and/or it simply just causes mutations.

    Psionic powers are incredible and awe-inspiring and people gifted with them are seen as superhuman and godlike, hence the title Divinity. (Nothing at ridiculous levels though, like Superman -- more like Star Wars.)

    This affinity can be fanatical in its beliefs, much like Supremacy, so they have a bit of religious flavor too. Much like Purity and Harmony are natural rivals, Supremacy and Divinity would be, since Supremacy would reject all things arcane and supernatural and fully embraces science and technology. Also, Divinity has a very superior attitude, much like Supremacy, and views different beliefs as inferior.

    Though, unlike Supremacy, they don’t try to show others the true path (or force them into it). Instead, Divinity is much more shadowy and secretive and instead look for those that are “gifted” while others are mere servants and belong to a lesser class in their societies. This lesser class almost worships the “divine” ones and their power and willingly follow and serve them.

    Much like the opposition between Purity and Harmony, Divinity would oppose Supremacy. Color-wise, Purity's warm theme contrasts Harmony's cool. Divinity would contrast Supremacy's dark metal and aggressive geometry with a light, silvery metal and smoother geometry (both would have an airiness to them, though, and not look as solid as Harmony or Purity).



    Purity: adapt the planet to humans.
    Harmony: adapt humans to the planet.
    Supremacy: adapt humans to any planet (independant)
    Divinity: don’t adapt to any planet! (more on this later)

    Main affinity color and projectile color: Purple

    Units would be colored light silver with purple highlights, somewhat minimalistic and also have flowing capes and such like Purity. The Eidolon from Rising Tide looks a lot like what I wanted!



    Their cities would be spire-like and shining silver, with floating structures about.

    The subtle changes that their leaders display in diplomacy would be that their eyes start to faintly glow purple, while the clothing receives the silver and purple coloring, and they have much less adornments.

    Divinity focuses on things beyond science and technology and more towards the supernatural -- the mind and spirit. They have a very mysterious and arcane flavor to them.

    Some examples of abilities could include control over emotions, nightmares, mind control, illusions, invisibility, telekinesis, force fields, telepathy, teleportation... purple lightning, haha. They could have unique melee units which wield psi-blades or swords, for example. Their ultimate affinity unit could be a being of pure energy, called the Avatar (similar to the Archons of Starcraft). Their units and vehicles could appear more fragile and sleek than other affinities, because they rely more on the protection of their psionic force fields.

    Examples of existing unit name themes:
    Purity: protector/guardian, classical, familiar (Centurion, Lancer, Bastion)
    Harmony: aggressive, animals, mythology (Marauder, Viper, Hydra)
    Supremacy: haughty, religious, inspiring the lesser (Apostle, Prophet, Shepherd)

    Some random new ones I'll blurt out to fit Divinity's theme:
    Oracle, Seer, Sage, Magus, Hypnotist, Enigma, Myth, Mesmer, Ethereal, Mirage, Figment, Aberration, Delirium, Morphling, Mimic, Phantasm, Specter, Phantom, Rogue, Chimera, Sphinx, Avatar, Archon, Nightmare, Phobia, Stalker, Dementor, Deceptor, Nebulus, Doppelganger, Zephyr, Illusion

    Originally, before Starships even came out, I thought of their unique victory as some form of Ascension to an astral plane of existence with the stars, somewhat like a rapture. Also, renaming Harmony’s victory to Symbiosis and giving Divinity Transcendence. Divinity sees this as an evolutionary step away from a primitive corporeal existence. But, when Starships was announced, I thought this wouldn’t work well if they wanted to add them to it as well and I tried to think of other types.

    Another one could be that a Great One must be born (specialists are reintroduced in the expansion), which makes you really hit hard psionic specialists in all your cities' Temples (like Jedi temples!) and other thematic buildings to generate a ton of psi or psion, at the cost of other things you could be doing with your cities.

    Though, I came across this from Alpha Centauri:

    The Ascent to Transcendence:

    “No longer mere earthbeings and planetbeings are we, but bright
    children of the stars! And together we shall dance in and out
    of ten billion years, celebrating the gift of consciousness until
    the stars themselves grow cold and weary, and our thoughts turn
    again to the beginning.”

    This sounds exactly like what I was thinking of for Divinity!

    (Sorry, wrote this hastily and copied things from an older post I've written about this!)
     

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