A New Mod In Progress: Help Needed

[The Last Conformist]

'Nother thought: While the epic game's concept of offensive swordsmen and defensive spearmen is pretty much fictional as actual weaponry goes, it does a tolerable job of representing the difference between low-quality garrison troops and better equipped and trained field armies. Something similar might be retained, if perhaps under other names.

 

[Bobisback]

Well the way I see it is you could have five basic groups of units frist you have your attacking Infantry, fast, good attack, lightly armored, then your artillery, then you have your defensive, slow moving, heavily armored infantry, then you have your supporting group blitz, fast attacking, moderately armored units(cavalry, tanks), then last but not least ranged infantry, moderate attack, speed and armor.

 

[The Last Conformist]

As said, I disagree with the concept of a division into offensive and defensive infantry.

The field army troops of my post above should be at least as good defenders as the garrison guys (as Swordsmen indeed has the same defense as Spearmen in the Epic game), while the later should not be entirely hopeless offensively (where CivIII goes somewhat the wrong way). The difference should be more of one of general quality than of specializations.

 

[Bobisback]

Then we will have four groups combining the to infantry tpyes.

 

[kulade]

Originally posted by RedAlert
Ok, here are some civ ideas: (I have put in my definate choices, and then some backup/optional/extra ones below them. I have also put in suggested culture groups.

North America:

America (european)
Iroquois (american)
Aztecs (american)
Sioux (american)

Maya? (american)
Cuba? (mediterrenean)
Canada? (european)


South America:

Incas (american)
Brazil (european)

Argentina? (mediterrenean)
Gran Colombia? (mediterrenean)


Europe:

England (european)
France (european)
Spain (european)
Germany (european)
Rome (mediterrenean)
Russia (european)
Vikings (european)
Poland (european)
Greece (mediterrenean)

Hungary? (european)
Celts? (european)


Africa:

Egypt (mid east)
Carthage (mediterrenean)
Mande (mid east)
Ethiopia (mid east)
Bantu (mid east)

Nubia? (mid east)
Morocco? (mid east)


Asia:

China (asian)
Japan (asian)
Turks (mid east)
Assyria (mid east)
Arabs (mid east)
Khmer (american)
India (mid east)
Persia (mid east)
Korea (asian)
Polynesia (american)
Tibet (asian)

Hitties? (mid east)
Israel? (mid east)
Mongols? (asian)
Indonesia? (mid east)
Vietnam? (asian)


To expand on an earlier idea, maybe there could be two mods, one including ancient and medieval civs and the other including industrial and modern ones? (just a though) One mod would be fine by me though.

I hope this helps.

Replace bantu with nubia, khmer with indonesia and japan with israel.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Surely Japan, as one of the most distinctive and well-known civilizations of Asia ought to be kept in?

Would prefer Maya to Sioux. Never been much in favour of nomadic civs.

And please don't have a civ called Vikings! I'd rather replace them with some Asian faction, but if you want to keep them, at least call them Scandinavians.

 

[RedAlert]

@ The Last Conformist:
Yes, Japan should definately stay in.
Vikings renamed Scandinavia
Sioux scrapped for Maya.

@ kulade: I would not like to replace Bantu with Nubia because we should have a south african civ (what I am trying to do is spread them out as much as i can) Nubia was more important, so I don't know what I should do. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

As for israel and indonesia, if we are going to put them in, maybe we could find different civs to replace them with?

 

[Bobby Lee]

OK, i need to quickly clear sumthing up on the units... i believe i posted an era list on the 1st page of this post... the militaries change in EVERY sub era though sum units linger to show they were still around but not effective except in rare cases...

my idea for organization of troop types is this... here are the lines in other words

land wise...

INFANTRY
CAVALRY (which will remain around until the world wars sub era)
ARMOR
GARRISONS (yea i liked who's ever idea that was...)

air wise...

FIGHTERS
BOMBERS
STEALTH BOMBERS

and then Naval wise...

TRANSPORTS
DESTROYER LINE (starts with a war galley of sum type or sumthin)
CRUISER LINE
BATTLESHIP LINE
CARRIER LINE

missiles...

CRUISER LINE (starts with a v2 type thing i think and goes to modern times)
NUKE LINE (thought really this only two separate units...tactical nuke and ICBM)

Beyond those types there will be on occassions divisions of two different types like in cavalry in certain eras there will be handgun armed ones and dragoons...also the UU's will be implemented both as replacements and as extra units that civs recieve...like only Germany i think should get stormtroopers because they were the only ones to develop effective ones as well as the normal infantry for that era(btw-whoever asked they were extremely effective raiders and as a secondary role attackers in WWI...both sides had them.. only Germany's worked with any significance.) and the US might get minutemen as well as the normal infantry... the way that those types get separated is they will be much much more expensive

just FYI... i am already working on a full draft of all units to be used based on this idea.. not to discourage ur input... just that the units are one of the main tenets of this mod i feel...i had intended to post it Friday night but as things turn out i have a party to go to that night so it will prolly be delayed till Saturday afternoon...ish

 

[The Last Conformist]

Separate battleship, cruiser and destroyer lines don't seem to make much sense before the late 1800s or so. For the Napoleonic era, I guess Ships-o'-the-Line as "battleships" and Frigates as "cruisers" make tolerable sense, but before that?

 

[Bobby Lee]

Originally posted by RedAlert
Ok, here are some civ ideas: (I have put in my definate choices, and then some backup/optional/extra ones below them. I have also put in suggested culture groups.

North America:

America (european)
Iroquois (american)
Aztecs (american)
Sioux (american)

Maya? (american)
Cuba? (mediterrenean)
Canada? (european)


South America:

Incas (american)
Brazil (european)

Argentina? (mediterrenean)
Gran Colombia? (mediterrenean)


Europe:

England (european)
France (european)
Spain (european)
Germany (european)
Rome (mediterrenean)
Russia (european)
Vikings (european)
Poland (european)
Greece (mediterrenean)

Hungary? (european)
Celts? (european)


Africa:

Egypt (mid east)
Carthage (mediterrenean)
Mande (mid east)
Ethiopia (mid east)
Bantu (mid east)

Nubia? (mid east)
Morocco? (mid east)


Asia:

China (asian)
Japan (asian)
Turks (mid east)
Assyria (mid east)
Arabs (mid east)
Khmer (american)
India (mid east)
Persia (mid east)
Korea (asian)
Polynesia (american)
Tibet (asian)

Hitties? (mid east)
Israel? (mid east)
Mongols? (asian)
Indonesia? (mid east)
Vietnam? (asian)


To expand on an earlier idea, maybe there could be two mods, one including ancient and medieval civs and the other including industrial and modern ones? (just a though) One mod would be fine by me though.

I hope this helps.

i dont think i like the idea of two separate things with the ancient and modern ones... never liked that idea much... perhaps as time progresses we could try to do that but first lets get a fully incorporated one

ur civ ideas are pretty good... heres my thoughts

-im thinking Canada instead of Iroquois
-South America looks good
- ur Europe is good
-with my relatively limited knowledge of Africa...looks good
-Asia: who or wut are the kmer... i recognize the name but i cant recall...other than that i really hate losing the mongols...they had sum big impacts on history... one of the largest empires ever... facilitation of various trades...the bane of the chinese... several invasions of india.. essentially caused the creation of the Russia we know... so on... i would really like to get the mongols back in there.. maybe tibet could go?

 

[Bobby Lee]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Separate battleship, cruiser and destroyer lines don't seem to make much sense before the late 1800s or so. For the Napoleonic era, I guess Ships-o'-the-Line as "battleships" and Frigates as "cruisers" make tolerable sense, but before that?

id have to say u've got me there... especially since my naval knowledge is only limited...i do know they did have a base smaller class back then and then a bigger one and then an even bigger one...they had several classes suffice to say... maybe i should load up my age of sail game again and check that out and see if that helps...

i guess best i got to justify it is that:

we could have a small scouting vessel type thing that comes in the destroyer line, frigates in the cruiser line, and ships of the line in the battleship line

i do know i want ships of the line in there sumwheres so *shrug*

 

[RedAlert]

Originally posted by Bobby Lee
OK, i need to quickly clear sumthing up on the units... i believe i posted an era list on the 1st page of this post... the militaries change in EVERY sub era though sum units linger to show they were still around but not effective except in rare cases...

my idea for organization of troop types is this... here are the lines in other words

land wise...

INFANTRY
CAVALRY (which will remain around until the world wars sub era)
ARMOR
GARRISONS (yea i liked who's ever idea that was...)

air wise...

FIGHTERS
BOMBERS
STEALTH BOMBERS

and then Naval wise...

TRANSPORTS
DESTROYER LINE (starts with a war galley of sum type or sumthin)
CRUISER LINE
BATTLESHIP LINE
CARRIER LINE

missiles...

CRUISER LINE (starts with a v2 type thing i think and goes to modern times)
NUKE LINE (thought really this only two separate units...tactical nuke and ICBM)

Beyond those types there will be on occassions divisions of two different types like in cavalry in certain eras there will be handgun armed ones and dragoons...also the UU's will be implemented both as replacements and as extra units that civs recieve...like only Germany i think should get stormtroopers because they were the only ones to develop effective ones as well as the normal infantry for that era(btw-whoever asked they were extremely effective raiders and as a secondary role attackers in WWI...both sides had them.. only Germany's worked with any significance.) and the US might get minutemen as well as the normal infantry... the way that those types get separated is they will be much much more expensive

just FYI... i am already working on a full draft of all units to be used based on this idea.. not to discourage ur input... just that the units are one of the main tenets of this mod i feel...i had intended to post it Friday night but as things turn out i have a party to go to that night so it will prolly be delayed till Saturday afternoon...ish

Honestly, it sound great to me! Here, I'll change that units list I made accordingly. I also like that ship lines thing, I'll try to think up ancient ones the best I can.

 

[RedAlert]

Originally posted by Bobby Lee


i dont think i like the idea of two separate things with the ancient and modern ones... never liked that idea much... perhaps as time progresses we could try to do that but first lets get a fully incorporated one

ur civ ideas are pretty good... heres my thoughts

-im thinking Canada instead of Iroquois
-South America looks good
- ur Europe is good
-with my relatively limited knowledge of Africa...looks good
-Asia: who or wut are the kmer... i recognize the name but i cant recall...other than that i really hate losing the mongols...they had sum big impacts on history... one of the largest empires ever... facilitation of various trades...the bane of the chinese... several invasions of india.. essentially caused the creation of the Russia we know... so on... i would really like to get the mongols back in there.. maybe tibet could go?

Canda instead of Iroqouis? I would go for that
Khmer is Cambodia
Mongols I would also like to fit in, but where is the question.

Yes, it dosen't matter to me really if we scrap the seperate mod idea, or at least save it till later. It's just an idea, I'm not really enthusiastic about it.

 

[kulade]

I think we should have israel in. It has had more effects on the earth then japan. Just replace another civ.

 

[RedAlert]

But which one?

Here, what does everyone think is the least important that can be replaced?

Also, I strongly disagree that israel had a bigger impact on the earth than japan.

 

[Bobby Lee]

i would have to say Israel has had a huge impact but i dont know that u can compare the impacts of japan and Israel...they are on separate sides of the world influenceing separate sides of the world...

i think we boot the Kmers and add Mongolia...drop tibet for Israel... how does that sound? (and of course my previously mentioned thought on Canada..)

 

[Bobby Lee]

ok i went back and looked at the work i had done on units and discovered it isnt as clear cut as i made it out to be... in fact there are entire eras which do not follow the model i posted above...

so in order to clear the units up in a more effective and informative way i have changed the way i organized my work schedule on this... i decided to concentrate on getting a list out rather than figureing out exactly wut stats i recommend for all of em and the unit upgrade paths and the possible UU's and all that... that all will prolly come easier once i post this anyways...

remember it is a draft... so any thoughts based off this model are good but i want to keep to this basic idea...i wrote in microsoft word in this case so hopefully everyone can read it... and it is in a zip folder..

 

[Bóreas]

I think tibet could be pretty important....
What has Khmer done for the world?
BTW, here are some resources:
Timber(done)
Fine Metals(You could use the iron from the 153 resources thread)
Rare Species(animals and flowers)

Those are just a kind of resource, if you think they don't fit in, them i'll make new ones, don't sweat it.

 

[RedAlert]

O.K. Here's the updated civs list (tell me how it looks):

North America

Canada (european)
America (european)
Aztecs (amercian)
Maya (american)


South America

Inca (american)
Brazil (european)


Europe

England (european)
France (european)
Germany (european)
Spain (european)
Rome (mediterrenean)
Greece (mediterrenean)
Scandinavia (european)
Russia (european)
Poland (european)


Africa

Egypt (mid east)
Carthage (mediterrenean)
Mande (mid east)
Ethiopia (mid east)
Bantu? Nubia? Zimbabwe? I need some help here


Asia

China (asian)
Japan (asian)
Turks (mid east)
Persia (mid east)
Assyria (mid east)
Arabs (mid east)
Polynesia (american)
Khmer (american)
India (mid east)
Israel (mid east)
Mongols (asian)

I kept Khmer in, as I said before, I would like to spread the civs out as much as possible, and we have absolutely nothing to represent southeast asia. Besides, I believe that the Khmers were important enough to be in.

 

[RedAlert]

Originally posted by Bóreas
I think tibet could be pretty important....
What has Khmer done for the world?
BTW, here are some resources:
Timber(done)
Fine Metals(You could use the iron from the 153 resources thread)
Rare Species(animals and flowers)

Those are just a kind of resource, if you think they don't fit in, them i'll make new ones, don't sweat it.

I am personally for a tibet civ over a few of the other ones, but it appears the that we are outnumbered in that belief.


Oh, and nice job on the units there, Bobby Lee. I am trying to figure out how to link them into unit lines, but I need more of a discription of what they are, and what you are hoping to give them in the way of abilities, strenghts, and weaknesses.