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A noobs cry for help

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ronojoy1917, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

    Jan 25, 2006
    Medford, MA
    There is an extremely good tutorial on how to create a settler factory in the war academy. I still look at it every so often - not only is it useful, it's really well written.
  2. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Aug 6, 2003
    One step ahead of the authorities
    There have been a lot of good responses here about the differences between Civ 3 and Civ 4. There's a few that I'd like to expand on.

    First the notion of "over-irrigating", which is a concept that simply doesn't apply to civ 4. In that game it takes, at normal speed, 100 hammers to make a settler. With some minor exceptions, food can be traded on a one-to-one basis with hammers to produce the settler.

    In civ 3, it takes thirty shields (hammers) and 2 pop to make a settler. Shields and food cannot be exchanged; food always leads to a growth in population and never helps production. Therefore, in civ 3 you want a balance between growth and shields. Ideally, if your objective is to produce a settler, you want your 30 shields and 2 pop to be achieved at exactly the same time. Therefore you want a balance between mining and irrigation which leads to growth and shield production happening at appropriately equivalent rates. In civ 3 flat land tiles can be either mined or irrigated so you want to get the correct balance between the two. It is possible to "over-mine" as well, although this is the less-common error.

    Point two: I think you've grasped this one but it is really important: in civ 3, you want to grow like a weed. You should have 10 cities by 1000BC and, assuming that there aren't any limits on your available territory at least 30 by 1AD. Never EVER stop growing your empire, either through founding new cities or by conquering them.

    Point three: buildings cost maintenance money in civ 3. Do not make any that you don't absolutely need. The great WackenOpenAir once said that, if you want to improve your game, don't build anything but granaries, harbours, aqueducts and barracks. That's all you need. Nothing else.

    On granaries. In civ 4 almost every city should have one. In civ 3, only build them in cities with good growth potential. Find a site where, with a granary, you can build a worker every two turns. Use the worker to improve a tile or two and then meld it into a slow-growing city. Rinse and repeat.

    Point four: the only decent government is Republic. Yes I know that under certain self-imposed rules (always war=Monarchy, 100K=Feudalism), other governments may be marginally superior. But in a normal civ3 game, republic is the way to go. Revolt as soon as you get there (when you get better, you might consider holding off a few turns) and then stick with it.

    Point five: kinda goes with point four. Republic slingshot. Use it. Aim for it. In the early game, it should be your prime (almost only) objective. You should be able to pull it off at least up to emperor, and frequently through deity.

    Point six: you are right that warriors have a far longer lifetime in civ 3 than civ 4. In fact, if your worry is barbs, don't even bother with warriors; simply let the buggers attack. Just make sure that you have minimal gold (a good thing in this game anyway) and no improvements in their target city.

    Point seven: armies are awesome. Infinitely better than great generals. Get 'em. Use 'em. Abuse 'em. See SirPleb's article about army-fishing.

    Point the last: do not be scared of the luxury slider. It is normal to run it up to 10-20% in the first few turns and even more as your capital grows bigger. Just make sure that it isn't growing out of control. Which takes us back to point the first.
  3. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

    Jan 25, 2006
    Medford, MA
    The only way to improve shield output is mining. Basically, all you can do is irrigate or mine - irrigation improves food, mining improves shields - and road, which gives commerce. (later, you can railroad, which improves either the mine or the irrigation)

    That is much simpler than IV, of course.

    The key for this part of the game that isn't simple is the despotism penalty, which is why a mined hill is no better than a mined BONUS grassland (the ones with the little silver dot on them). They both give 2 shields under despotism (a mined hill gives 3, one of which is lost - a mined BG gives 2, neither of which is lost)

    You can slave settlers, but it's a very inefficient way to do things.

    About barbs - they cannot take your cities - all they can do is take money and ruin production.
  4. Ronojoy1917

    Ronojoy1917 Chieftain

    Jan 18, 2009
    The Far East!!
    I'll look at that settler factory article in the War Academy. Thats quite neat with the Diplomacy there, Railuven. Maybe I'm being too stingy in my tech trades? I just hesitate a little when Germany asks me to trade something like Code of Laws for the Wheel. Should I go in for seemingly unbalanced trades like that as well? They seem to be the only kind that the AI wants to accept.

    At the risk of slipping into a habit of abandonment I think I'm going to leave this game. I'm also considering doing a sort of shadow game thing where I play for some turns, save and then post the save, asking for critique/help. I am however playing vanilla and unpatched, are there enough of you helpful posters out there who would be able to load that and help me out a little?
  5. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010
    **Warning - Long Post**

    I loaded it up and played a few dozen turns. I will attach the game and a picture to show you how things look in 520 AD. I will list a few things that made this difficult - and also to point out the errors I realized that I made - a better player would probably have this game in hand by now. I am pretty sure we can win this, but it is slow going.

    Some things I did not immediately note but that should be mentioned (or mentioned in greater detail):

    Cities are all strung out - aside from corruption, which I did mention, this also makes defense very difficult. I have been struggling with unit movements. We have no depth, so everything needs protection. Initial expansion is also about insulating your inner cities so that you don't have to defend them - make a natural front line, and you are far better off- you can concentrate your armies. I am constantly defending both Bombay and Bangalore and it is a drain - I have a hard time building up superior numbers. When I first started, I couldn't figure out if they were after Bombay, Delhi or Lahore.

    Also, City positions/terrain are not great- the AI will use hills and mountains to move to gain the defensive bonuses. They can advance via hills/moutains nearly the entire way into our nation. :(

    Lack of workers amplified this problem - it was a long time before I had enough workers to get anything done.

    Lack of barracks means I have regular units. It is all I can do to produce the units I need to fight a defensive warrior. I can’t divert resources to building barracks at the moment. I’ll have to do that piecemeal. Also, because the only barracks I have is in the capital, I am stuck with my best settler/worker factory turning out warriors instead. Also, my lack of experienced troops makes leader fishing very difficult.

    I made some tactical error right away:
    1. I wasn't realistic about the AI attitudes. France pulled Germany and Japan into war against me before I could do it against them. My initial tech trade should have attempted to pull them in against France. Instead, I am at the bottom of the dogpile and when I learn Monarchy I can't trade it. I should have allied Germany and Japan against France and then traded Monarchy around. However, I decided to move forward with the game anyway and see if I could pull it out.

    2. I went for Iron right away for swordsman. I should have gone for the horses. Germany has come up with horsemen and now I am having trouble winning decisive victories without stringing out my own units to kill redlined horses.

    With that said, this is what I did. I will probably follow this game to conclusion just because I have a vendetta against it now. For what it may be worth:

    Spoiler :
    Start at 280 AD

    Shake down -

    Delhi change spearman to settler – MM to get rid of Clowns and pick up gold – extra shields won’t help at this point.
    Madras changes from Barracks to Granary – leave citizens as is right now.
    Bombay – Change from Settler to Worker, due in 2 turns – leave citizens as is right now.
    Bangalore - Leave as is right now. Worker in 3 turns.
    Calcutta – change spearman to archer so as not to waste shields. Leave citizens alone right now.

    General observation – cities are strung out and have growing corruption because of this. Need more core cities. Need more workers.

    Moved worker towards Madras from Bangalore. Captured workers move toward Iron/Calcutta.

    Found out that game does not pause between turns. :( Correct that problem in settings. Missed Diplomacy because of that. :cry: Go into Ctl+P, check Always Wait at End of Turn.

    Turn 1 (290 AD)

    Continue to move worker towards Capital.
    Slaves begin to Road Perfumes. They are way out of place, but we will make the best of it.
    Move spear out of Bombay to cover workers on a hill. Will fortify for defense of 3.5.

    Diplomacy - Dial up Bismarck and he will give us contact with China and HBR for Poly. I try for some gold but he refuses. Accept deal. Contact Mao and haggle Poly and 3gp for contact with Japan and Lit. Offer Poly for CoL and 12gp (all he has). Accept. Got contact with China, Japan, HBR, Lit CoL and 9gp for Poly.

    French won’t talk.


    Japan and Germany declare war on us for France. Grr.

    Turn 2 (300 AD)

    Dehli – settler to worker, move settler to X city site.
    Bombay worker – worker. Move worker towards capital.
    Keep moving worker towards capital.
    Move archer from Madras toward Bombay. Roads and city placing makes movement difficult.


    French boat near capital.

    Turn 3 (310 AD)

    Divert archers towards capital – only have 1 spearman there. I haven’t seen any enemy units so I don’t know what tech they are at and what resources they have for units.
    Bangalore worker – warrior, move worker towards Madras.


    French boat moves towards capital
    French archer appears near Bombay.

    Turn 4 (320 AD)

    Continue to move workers, start improvement of capital.
    Move archer to capital, move warrior towards capital.
    Divert archer to Bombay.
    Found Lahore at City X. Give it extra G+W from city #1. Set to Worker.
    Realize Governors are still on in some cities. Turn them off.
    MM Calcutta and Bangalore for more shields, slow growth, but corruption is a problem.
    Tech still at 80%, Monarchy in 3 turns, may need to trade this to get out of wars.
    Establish embassy with china for 60gp, but they are no help. Don’t have enough to enlist them in war.
    French still won’t talk.


    French boat is going around capital – probably a settler headed north. Could also be headed for unprotected Lahore.
    Another French Archer near Bombay.
    Germany archer near Bangalore.

    Turn 5 (330 AD)

    Move archer towards Banaglore
    Workers near Bombay finish road, move them off front line towards Lahore. Move archer and spearman into Bombay.
    Worker near Lahore irrigates. Move warrior into Lahore.
    Archer in capital crosses river to protect workers and repel landing if possible.
    Worker near Madars irrigates.
    Change mind at Calcutta and change to create warrior.

    French won’t talk.


    French Boat continues north.
    Germany archer moves toward Bangalore.
    French archers near Bombay change their mind and collect in jungle?
    Barb galley threatens French boat – not much hope they will sink it though.

    Turn 6 (340 AD)

    Keep archer on other side of the river near Bangalore. Think they are headed there but don’t want them crossing river on other side unchallenged.
    Archer near capital continues to track galley just in case it is after Lahore.
    Change Bombay from worker to warrior – don’t want to lose size 7 city while under attack. Warrior in 1 turn.
    Keep moving workers.


    French boat drops archer on hill near Lahore.
    French archers near Bombay gain courage and continue forward. See 2 more archers coming through French jungle hereafter known as Vietnam.
    Germans do not cross river and advance on Bangalore, another German archer appears. No one must have iron. Could really use that iron right now . . .

    Turn 7 (350 AD)

    Learn Monarch, set to Currency, science down to 70%, due in 10 turns, +2gpt. Gold is running low.

    Bombay warrior – archer. May change this. Need some power. Too many mountains and hills.
    Bangalore warrior – warrior.
    Workers continue improvements, things are getting better.

    Battle for Lahore
    Vet Archer vs Reg Archer on hill – loses, causes 1hp damage. Darn RNG.
    Reg Warrior vs. 2hp archer on hill – flawless win, promotes. RNG joke?
    Lahore is safe for now.

    Battle for Banaglore
    Reg Archer vs. Reg Archer on hill – this time we win, Archer has 1hp left but has time to retreat to city next turn. Other Germany archer is 2 turns away.
    Bangalore is safe for now.

    French still won’t talk.
    Risky but revolt this round. Need to get out of Despotism.


    French advance on Bombay.
    Germany advances on Bangalore.

    I will let them beat their heads against those cities for now.

    Turn 8 (360 AD)

    We are in Monarch and life is much better.
    Need to back off science to 50%, Currency in 12 turns to conserve gold because of lost unit support.

    I have fortified spears in Bombay – I will let the archers attack and take my chances.
    Retreat wounded archer back to Bangalore.

    Pray and press continue.


    French archers detour past Bombay. Darn.
    French boat on its way back from Northern colony?
    Germans advance on Bangalore again.

    Turn 9 (370 AD)

    Move a spearman across the river so archer near Bangalore can’t cross the river without a fight. Bangalore is still well protected.
    Warrior moving out of Calcutta to support Bangalore.
    Change Lahore from worker to warrior.

    French still won’t talk.
    Still can’t bring China into the war.

    Battle of the hills of Bombay.
    Catapult misses.
    Reg archer vs. Reg archer on hill. RNG hates me, lose, cause 1hp damage.
    Veteran warrior tries vs 2nd reg archer on hill. Lose but redline archer.


    French wounded archers retreat. Other archers head towards Lahore. French boat still on its way home.
    German archer sits tight but German horseman appears.

    Turn 10 (380 AD)

    Move catapult and spear to Lahore.
    Move workers out of harms way. Keep working.
    Advance warrior from Calcutta to support Bangalore.
    No sign of Japan yet.

    France will sign a peace treaty for Monarchy. I decline for now because if we trade, France will give it t Germany and Japan. Neither will talk right now. War continues.
    Worried – I don’t have enough units.

    Battle for Bangalore
    Reg Archer vs. Reg Archer – flawless victory. Move spear to cover archer on hill from horseman.


    Germany horseman kills warrior in the open.
    French advance on Lahore.
    More French forces on the way.

    Turn 11 (390 AD)

    Move workers.
    Madras warrior – warrior.

    Battle for Lahore
    Catapult cause 1 hp damage to archer.
    Reg warrior vs. reg archer, loses, 1hp damage to archer. Rng hates me.
    4 hp warrior vs 3hp archer, win but redlined.
    Only 2hp enemy archer left.

    Battle for Bangalore fields
    3 hp archer vs. 3hp horse – loses, causes 1hp damage but horse promotes. RNG really hates me.
    Move spearman to cover luxury.

    Luxury to 70%, Currency in 6 turns. Breakeven gold.


    Germany horse kills spearman in flawless victory. Killer horseman!!
    More German forces on the way.
    France forces advance.

    Turn 12 (400 AD)

    Move elite warrior from Calcutta to support Bangalore.
    Bangalore Archer – Warrior.
    Lahore warrior – warrior.
    Swap Madras from warrior to archer in 2 turns

    Battle of Bangalore – tired of this horseman. 3hp archer attacks, loses 1 hp, redlines horse and forces a retreat. Archer holds the hill.

    Battle for hill of Dehli
    3hp warrior from Lahore vs. 2hp archer, wins, 1hp damage.


    German warrior attacks archer near Bangalore – archer is redlined but wins.
    German redlined horse attacks redlined archer near Bangalore, archer wins and promotes!!!
    French keep moving, using hills for protection and movement. Grr.

    Turn 13 (410 AD)

    Dehli granary – archer
    Calcutta warrior – worker.
    Archer near Bangalore to city to heal.
    Move warrior on hill near Dehli to city.

    Battle for hills of Bombay
    Catapult causes 1hp to warrior.
    Vet Archer vs. Vet 3hp warrior – Flawless victory.

    Germany and Japan will talk, but Japan is being unreasonable. No deals.
    Still can’t buy China into the war.


    France advances.
    Germans move into the open field.

    Turn 14 (420 AD)

    Battle of Bangalore fields
    Elite warrior vs. vet warrior - lose but redline warrior.
    Reg warrior vs. Reg archer – Win but warrior is redlined.
    Reg warrior across river vs. reg archer – lose archer promotes, has 2 hp.
    Reg Warrior across river vs. 2hp warrior – wins, warrior 1 hp damage.

    The battle for India (area between Dehli, Lahore and Bombay.

    Vet archer vs. Elite warrior – wins but archer loses 2 hp.
    Vet Warrior vs. Reg archer – wins but redlined.
    Move units to cover for wounded units. Big risk but need a decisive victory.

    Turn down research to 60%, currency still in 1 turn.
    Pray and continue.


    French Reg archer attacks Reg spearman, REg spearman wins, promotes, but 2hp damage.
    French Reg archer attacks wounded spearman, wins but redlines.
    German archer attacks redlined warrior and wins but is redlined.
    German Boat is sited.

    Turn 15 (430 AD)

    Dehli warrior – settler – need more cities!
    Wounded warrior retreats from battle for India.

    Battle for Bangalore
    Vet Archer across river to redlined archer - Flawless victory.
    Germany is removed from Indian territory.

    Battle for India
    Vet warrior kills reg archer on hill – flawless victory.
    Vet Warrior kills redlined archer on same hill, flawless victory. France is nearly removed from Indian area. 2 archers left. Army will converge on plains of India.

    Neither will give us peace right now.
    China still won’t join in. Will go to war with Japan for everything I have. Thanks a lot. No way.


    France advances but can’t attack. All units move onto plain. Big smile.
    German boat moves by. German archer moves forward but is at least 2 turns away.

    Turn 16 (440 AD)

    Lots of warrior build!
    Bombay – warrior – Warrior
    Lahore – Warrior – worker
    Madras – warrior – Settler
    Bangalore – warrior – warrior

    Science to 50%, Mapmaking in 5 turns

    Battle for India becomes battle for Bombay.
    Vet warrior vs. Reg Archer – Flawless victory – promotes to elite!
    Vet warrior vs. Reg Archer – Victory – 1hp lost.
    France is removed from India.

    No one wants peace. Shift from full time war to part time peace building.

    Change Bombay to Settler


    French and German forces gather a few units. No invasions at this time. India is a Sovereign Nation.

    Turn 17 (450 AD)

    Move units to support roles. Move warrior to hold hills of Bangalore against continued German aggression.


    French offer peace for Monarchy. Tell them to shove off. They talk big but remain in place.
    China declares war against us, but since they are across the ocean, I don’t care.
    German boat continues to move. German forces advance to mountain. India invaded again.

    Turn 18 (460 AD)

    Move units. Get settler ready to found city next turn.
    Retreat Warrior from hills from advancing 2 arches. Will kill them in the open if possible.


    Amazingly, Germany obliges by moving both archers on the open desert tile rather than the hill? Where are they going? I know were I am going to send them.
    France continues to hold back. Must be waiting for Reinforcements. I’m not.

    Turn 19 (470 AD)

    Found Karachi. Set to build warrior.

    Battle of Banaglore
    Vet Archer vs. Reg Archer – defeat (darn RNG), cause 1 hp damage but promotes.
    Reg Warrior vs. Reg Archer – defeat (I hate this RNG), but redlines archer.
    Reg Warrior vs Vet 3hp Archer – flawless defeat. Archer promotes. This game cheats.

    Move Warrior to reinforce Banaglore.


    Germany – redlined archer retreats, 4hp elite archer attacks Bangalore, loses to reg spearman, causes 1 hp damage.

    Turn 20 (480 AD)

    Madras settler – Worker
    Bangalore – warrior – warrior

    India remains sovereign. No invasions.

    Nothing big.

    Turn 21 (490 AD)

    Enter MA. Set to Feud.
    Colonize Iron! We have Iron! Upgrade reg warrior (ouch, reg) in capital to Swordsman. Move warrior to guard colony.
    Bombay – Settler – Swordsman. Send Settler North.
    Dehli – Settler – Settler. Send Settler North.
    Madras change worker to Swordsman.
    Bangalore changes to Swordsman.
    Calcutta changes to swordsman.
    Lahore to Swordsman.

    The world hates us. Tough. We’re here to stay.

    Turn 22 (500 AD)

    Nothing much.


    Japan arrives with 3 reg warriors – at best speed, they are 2 rounds away.
    Otherwise, all is quiet.
    Barbs attack French city in the North. Settlers need escorts.

    Turn 23 (510 AD)

    Delhi change to swordsman
    Vet Warrior upgrade to swordsman in Delhi.


    France and Germany renew the attack. Multiple invasions. But now I have swordsmen. And they don’t appear to have iron. Big smile.
    Japan advances their 3 warriors.

    Attached Files:

  6. Ronojoy1917

    Ronojoy1917 Chieftain

    Jan 18, 2009
    The Far East!!
    Wow you seem to have gotten really into this game ;). I'll take a look at the save to get an idea of how you've fixed things up, but I don't think I can continue playing this, it doesn't feel like it belongs to me anymore. But I'd really appreciate if you'd keep posting your progress.
  7. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010
    Warning - another long post

    Okay, this isn't the 'won' game, but it is now a given that we will win. The AI can't overtake India at this point. It is just a matter of cleaning up. I will admit that my MM has become a bit sloppy now that I know it is in the bag. It is currently 1210 AD and we are poised to destroy France. We are the tech leaders and we are the only ones that currently have knights. We are also the only ones that clearly have saltpeter - though no one is near MT yet. Our War Elephants are dominating the game. India is filling up the north. After dispatching suicidal France, Germany will be served up. After that, the dominos will fall. Just met Persia - there were isolated on a small island and are really lacking for techs. Still haven't met some of the Civs.

    France and Germany are acting psychotic - they beg for peace on one hand and given me all they've got, then they turn around and declare war again in the next few rounds. Rinse, repeat. I've never had an AI that was so weird.

    Here it is:

    Spoiler :
    Turn 24 (520 AD)

    Found Jaipur

    Battle of Bombay
    Reg Sword vs. Vet French Archer on hill - Victory but swordsman is redlined.
    Reg Archer vs. Reg Japan Warrior – Wins but redlines.
    Red Swordsman vs. Reg Japan Warrior – Wins loses 1hp.
    Vet Archer vs. Reg Japan warrior – flawless victory.
    First Japan stack destroyed.


    German horse attacks Bangalore – redlined and retreats.
    French and Japanese forces move, france shuffles for show, Japanese main army advances – 1 sword, 1 archer, 2 warriors. They are headed toward Bombay. I have 2 catapults, 4 swordsman, 2 archers and a spearman in Bombay. Think they are going to win?

    Turn 25 (530 AD)

    No one wants out of the war. Okay. Cities are expanding and production is going up.
    Reg warrior attacks redlined horse outside of Bangalore – wins but redlined. Redlined German horse still nearby- may suck him back in for the kill.


    Sucker. Redlined horse turns around, attacks redlined warrior, loses, warrior promotes!
    France sends 1 archer forward. Japan army arrives. Two more swordsmen are on the way.

    Turn 26 (540 AD)

    Upgrade reg warrior to sword at capital.
    Delhi swordsman – swordsman
    Karachi changed to barracks. Gamble here, but need more veteran units.
    Build Hyderabad by iron colony, Iron is now ours for all time. Set to build worker.

    Battle for Bombay
    My bad – I have 3 swords and 2 spearman. Not 4 and 1.
    Catapult vs. J Swordsman, misses. Second hits for 1hp damage. Swordman remains on top of the stack.
    Vet Sword vs. Reg 2hp sword on hill – Victory, 1hp damage.
    Vet Sword vs. Reg Warrior on hill – Flawless.
    Reg sword vs. Archer on hill – loses – archer 1hp and promotes.
    Vet archer vs Reg Archer on hill – flawless win.
    Leave others to attack spearmen if they dare. Worried about pillaging, more worried about unit counts. Starting to turn around but not there yet.


    French destroy improvement. I knew they would. I hate the French. France starts to move units forward, but weak. 5 archers in view, coming in groups. Can you say defeat in detail?
    Japan moves wounded unit away, moves swordsman forward.

    Turn 27 (550 AD)

    I have more swordsman coming off the assembly line.
    Madras swordsman- settler.

    Battle for Bombay
    Catapults fire at J reg swordsman. Both hit. Reg swordsman redlined. Vet Swordsman takes him out flawless.
    Move Spear and sword to hill to try to block archer advance and force them to the plains.
    Veteran Archer vs. Reg Archer on hill - Flawless defeat. Darn RNG.


    France arrives in force, gambit succeeds and archers are no loner on hills. Funnel towards Karachi. Good for them. Japan is done for. 1 swordsman left, 1 turn away.
    German units appear – an archer, horseman, spearman and settler.

    Turn 28 (560 AD)

    Move more units into place.


    Turn 29 (570 AD)

    French archer kills reg swordsman, loses only 1hp. I hate this RNG.
    Reg sword near Mardas kils reg French archer, Madras is safe from the French.
    More enemy units are appearing. But I’ve got units of my own on the way.

    Turn 30 (580 AD)

    Got to get serious.
    My current unit count – 8 workers, 8 warriors, 1 archer, 6 spearman, 9 swordsman, 2 catapults. 10 cities.
    Change Lahore to worker – need one more worker out of it.

    Battle for the hills of Karachi.
    Regular swordsman vs. Reg 2hp Archer on hill – flawless victory.
    Catapult at Bombay takes 1 hp of a J swordsman.
    Vet Sword vs Reg 2hp J sword – Win but redlined. Move spear to cover him on hill. Threatened by German horse.


    French archers move onto the plains. Thank you.
    Germany advances a few units, puts a horse in reach of my sword near Madras.

    Turn 31 (590 AD)

    Minor worker movements. Still improving.

    Battle for Bangalore
    Reg sword vs. Reg Archer in the open. Loses, archer down 1 hp. Stupid RNG.
    Vet Warrior vs. Reg 2hp archer – victory where the sword failed -1hp.

    Battle for Madras – reg sword vs. reg horse in the open. Wins, forces a retreat. No damage.

    Battle for Karachi
    Vet Sword vs. French reg archer – Flawless victory
    Vet Sword vs. F reg archer – victory, -2hp
    Reg sword vs. F reg archer – Victory, -1hp
    Elite Warrior vs. F reg archer – Victory, -1hp French army sent to next life.

    India is again sovereign except for a redlined German horse.
    I actually have luxury problems, make a taxman in Madras for now.
    Hurry a swordsman at Calcutta for 24gp to intercept a settler/spear pair.


    Reg G archer attacks Reg swordsman, loses and our sword promotes to veteran, -2hp.
    Other German units advance. Japan has a few built up again.
    No sign of the Chinese yet.

    Turn 32 (600 AD)

    Lots of movement. I choose not to engage the archers outside of Madras. I’ll let them come closer and then bring swordsmen to the front for the kill.

    German settler outside of Calcutta protected by a spear. Reg Sword vs. Reg Spear in woods – victory, -1hp , thanks for the slaves. Not a bad return on a 24gp rush.


    Movement, france shows off some new horses.

    Turn 33 (610 AD)

    Bombay – Vet sword redlines a French horseman, -2hp.


    F Reg archer attacks vet swordsman – wins -1hp but promotes.
    F Reg archer attacks reg swordsman outside Magras, flawless loss. Swordsman promotes.
    G Reg archer attacks Bangalore Reg spearma, flawless loss, Spear promotes.
    The AI has Monarchy now.

    Turn 34 (620 AD)

    Nothing much.
    Do some MM. Need a clown in Delhi and a taxman in Madras.

    Battle of Bangalore
    Reg sword redlines G horse, flawless.
    Vet Warrior hunts down redline G Horse and kills it, -2 hp.

    Battle of Madras
    Vet Sword vs. Vet 3hp Archer – Wins but redlines.
    Mardras is safe again.

    Troops move, nothing else. Lots more units.

    Turn 35 (630 AD)

    Battle of Grenoble
    Warrior can’t get away – attack French Vet Horse – loses by -1hp to the horse.

    Battle of Bombay
    Catapult hits French horse, -1hp.
    Vet sword vs. horse – Flawlessly forces a retreat.

    Lot more troop movement.
    China wants me to pay 70gp +7 gpt to get out of war –but he hasn’t even arrived to the party. Tell him to take a hike.

    Turn 36 (640 AD)

    Catapult and sword outside of Bombay dispatch a French archer.
    Veteran sword from Karachi flawlessly redlines a German horse. A veteran sword out of Bombay kills it flawlessly. -20 shield for the Germans.


    German archer attacks Vet 3hp sword, flawless defeat, sword promote to Elite!

    Turn 37 (650 AD)

    Delhi in disorder. Dang. Missed that.
    Build Bengal – set to warrior.


    Horses attach Bengal but are driven off.
    Grenoble likes being Indian. Deposes French and turns over to us.
    France is advancing with spears?

    Turn 38 (660 AD)

    Battle of Madras
    Reg Sword vs reg J horse – wins but redlined. Not good. G horse and F archer is in the area.
    Vet warrior vs reg G horse on hill – lose, -1hp horse. Dang.

    Battle of Jaipur
    Vet warrior vs. Vet archer in forest – Victory, -1hp.

    Not happy with this round.


    G horse takes a worker.
    French archer kill 2hp sword. French archer dies trying to retake Grenoble.
    G horse takes Grenoble, loses -1hp.
    French archer attacks Bengal and dies to spear.

    Turn 39 (670 AD)

    Horses are connected
    Sword from Calcutta attacks F Spear near Bangalore – Wins, -2hp.
    Vet Sword by Bengal kills F 1hp horse.
    Catapults and elite sword kills G archer outside Bombay.

    France and Germany have had enough. Both accept straight up peace deal.
    2 down.


    Japan offers peace but wants Feudalism – offers Republic. France and Germany both have Feudalism, so I decide to trade. We have peace with all but China.

    Turn 40 (680 AD)

    China will take peace for 40gp – give it to them so we have peace. All is at rest. Now we build for war (hahahaha). Start Marketplaces. Serious building phase to begin. Need Knights. No one will trade Mono. Will have to go it alone.
    Start Markets in Delhi, Madras, Bombay, Lahore, and Karachi.


    Turn 41 (690 AD)

    Current empire: 11 cities, 2 settlers, 11 workers, 6 warriors, 1 archer, 14 swordsmen, 2 cats.
    Remind Germany to GET OUT OF MY LANDS. Send Spear to protect workers from nearby archer.


    Turn 42 (700 AD)

    Tell Germans to get out again and they declare war. So much for peace.
    Recapture my worker that never left?
    Archer near Bangalore kills a reg warrior, but another reg warrior kills him.
    Change some builds to horses.

    Germany invades by Bombay.

    Turn 43 (710 AD)
    Cats take off 2hp, Reg Archer forces a retreat.

    Redlined horse comes back for archer and wins.

    Turn 44 (720 AD)

    Tell French to get out. They declare war.
    Punjab founded.
    Chittagong founded.
    Want to finish marketplaces. Stupid Germans and French. No can do. Change Madras to horse, change Bombay to horse. Rush horse in Calcutta for 24gp.
    Vet Sword near Bombay kills F Vet Archer
    Science set to 50%, Mono in 4 turns.

    F horse attacks Bengal, is redlined and retreats. –1hp to spear.
    F moves 1hp spear near Bombay. Why?
    G forces invade India near Bombay – headed towards Madras?

    Turn 45 (730 AD)

    Bombay – horse – horse
    Madras – horse – horse
    Calcutta – horse – horse

    Calcutta horse to Bengalore.
    Elite sword in Chittagong attacks Vet Horse - -2hp, forces horse to retreat. Intent is to stop French units from building up in strength until I have enough units for a decisive victory. Need horses.
    Decide to leave invading forces alone. Want to build up units. Will have small army of horses in 3 turns.

    German horse invades, more german horses on the horizon.
    Large French invasion force appears – 4 horse and 1 archer within reach – will try to reduce. Chittagong is threatened. However, 3 swords forfeited in a city on a hill are formidable.

    Turn 46 (740 AD)

    Move horse away from g archer on hill, will wait for him to move down to attack.

    Battle of Bangalore
    Reg horse vs G reg horse – Flawless victory
    Bangalore still threatened by 2 g horse or hill.

    Battle of Chittagong
    Vet Sword vs f reg archer – Victory, -1hp but promotes to elite!
    Vet Horse vs. f reg horse – Flawless victory, but horse is now vulnerable. Move Swordsman into support role – if horse is taken, sword will kill victor. Move spear to cover vulnerable horse. Gamble, but want to save the horse.

    3 units dead to 0 for me, plus 1 promotion. I like this. Need 2 more rounds to be secure. Will go into high military production.

    Current world status - #1 in population, #2 in manufacturing, #2 in income, #2 in productivity.
    13 workers, 6 warriors, 5 spearmen, 13 swordsmen, 3 horse, 2 cats. 3 slaves.

    G horse continue to invade but no military action.
    G archer advances into the open.
    F horse attacks elite 4hp sword in Chittagong, fails, is redlined and retreats.
    F horse attacks spear covering horse – fails, is redlined and retreats.
    F horse attacks spear covering horse – fails, is redlined, retreats, causes 1hp damage.
    F horse attacks Veteran sword- fails, is redlined, retreats.

    Turn 47
    I ignore the german horse invaders – I will give them 1 more turn to penetrate and then deal with them. For now, I need to protect Madras’ infrastructure.

    Battle of Madras plains
    Reg Horse vs. Reg Archer – fails, is redlined and retreats to Madra.
    Vet Sword vs. Reg 2hp Archer – wins, -1hp.
    Move 1 warrior from Bangalore to Madras.

    Battle of Calcutta
    Vet Sword vs. G Vet Spear – wins, loses 1hp.

    Multiple French horse attack Bengal – all fail and retreat.
    Germans continue invasion with horses – they now have 5 horses visible and 1 archer advancing.
    But, Grenoble still wants to be Indian and overthrows the germans! Yeah!

    Turn 48 (760 AD)

    Battle for Madras
    Vet 3hp sword vs.g reg horse – wins, -1hp, redlines horse, forces retreat.
    Reg Warrior vs.g Reg horse – redlines horse but dies.
    Reg horse vs. g Reg horse – wins, -1hp
    Reg Warrior vs. Reg 1hp horse – wins.

    Madras is safe, Germans in retreat!

    Battle for Bengal
    Vet sword vs. 1hp F horse – Flawless Victory
    Vet Horse vs. 1hp F horse – Victory -2hp

    Battle for Bangalore
    Reg horse vs. G Reg horse – Victory but -2 hp.

    5 horses killed (150 shields) vs. 1 warrior (10 shields). Not a bad trade. Inform Mrs. Warrior that Billy died a hero. Now for the IBT . . .

    Mono in 1 turn – turn science down to 30%
    Lots of MM – trying to balance shield production to go into 30 shields for a horse or sword without out waste. Maximize gold if shields/food do no good. For example – Wheat w/Mine goes to Karachi because Delhi doesn’t need the food anymore.

    G horse attacks Grenoble – fails, redlined, retreats.
    Lots of French horses attack Bengal – 6 redlined horses are outside Bengal at the cost of -1hp to two swordsmen. Big smile.
    German units switch gears and go after Calcutta workers. They are just 1 tile too far away . . . hehehe.

    Turn 49
    I’m hoping I can turn this around this turn. If I can kill the French horse armies outside Bengal, I think I can start moving forward.

    I will leave the G forces around Calcutta alone – 1 more turn and I think I can overpower them. Move workers to safety.
    MM a few cities for clowns at this point. No down side, better than Luxury slider. Put science up to 60%, Chivalry in 14 turns.

    Battle for Bengal-Chittagong fields
    Killed 5 redlined horses and forced 1 reg horse to retreat. No casualties!

    Neither French nor Germans want to talk. No one has any techs to trade.


    France comes begging for peace. Yeah! Make them pay 30gpt and world map for the privilege of not fighting with India.
    German forces advance on Calcutta – G reg horse attacks Vet Spearman – flawless failure, redlined retreats.
    Japan moves a spear/settler pair into India headed north. I’ll let them get a bit further before kicking them out – or starting a war.

    Turn 50 (780 AD)

    Bombay – horse – horse.
    Madras switch to marketplace
    Lahore switch to settler
    Jaipur switched to temple
    Kolhapur switched to temple
    Bengal switched to temple
    Chittagong switch to temple
    Want to overpower France with culture – neither Avignon or Rouen have expanded their boarders.
    I’m going to keep Grenoble this time – move 2 horse to support.

    Swordman out of Calcutta cuts down 1hp G horse.
    Horse out of Bangalore kills g archer.

    Dial up Germany – tell them it will cost them all of their gold (43) and their world map for me to stop kicking them in the butt. They agree.

    We have Peace again!
    Turn Science up to 70%, -6pt, chivalry in 11 turns – German and French peace will fund our research for a while!
    Current status: #1 in population and manufacturing, #2 in income and productivity.
    14 workers, 3 slaves, 6 warriors, 6 spearman, 13 swordsmen, 5 horses, 2 cats. 14 cities.

    Abbreviated history

    800 AD
    Peace lasts until 800 AD when I tell Japan to get out or declare. Japan declares. Come get it.
    I help myself to their spear/settler pair, though it costs me a horse.
    I change some builds back to wartime – building some barracks. Starting to turn out Veteran units.
    France is also building up again.
    War happiness puts clowns back to work.
    Might be a phony war because Japan is soooo far way.

    830 AD
    Found Dacca in the north.
    No sign of Japan yet.

    860 AD
    Rush Temple in Bengal for 40gp to keep cultural pressure on France.

    Bengal steals land from France around Avignon and Rouen. I can now walk up to their cities and spit. France’s gambit against us has failed. They will soon be a memory.

    We have passed Germany on the histograph.
    Chivalry in 2 turns.

    890 AD
    France invades again. Figure they will want war. I’ll hand them their butt. Tell them to get out and . . .
    They declare. Big surprise. Time to start dealing in butts.
    I sacrifice a warrior to capture a worker. Figure he will die, but might make an account of himself. Anything that kills him will put itself in danger to boot.
    Kill invading horse with cats and a vet horseman.
    Hold off build in Madras – Chivalry next turn – then turn back to knight!

    F horse attacks exposed warrior in jungle – flawless defeat, redlines, retreats (R&R)

    900 AD
    Set Madras to build FP

    France show up with its units – 3 horse and 1 archer. I think I may surrender . . . no wait, I’ll try attacking first . . .
    An archer from northern French city threatens workers – I will wait for him to enter my territory to attack.
    A f horse appears near Bangalore? Must have been headed to Amiens and diverted when war was declared.
    A Japanese archer also appears near Bombay. I decide to talk to him. Japan offers peace for peace. I take it. I would rather pound France into the dust. This is twice they have made a false peace with me. Time to die. I have war elephants only a few turns away. I figure it won’t be long before Germany declares war again too.

    910 AD
    2 elite swords out of Chittagong force 3 horses to retreat to Rouen.

    French horse attacks Grenoble and is killed by reg spear – spear promotes.
    Multiple attacks by French forces. All fail. F reg archer dies to Vet sword.
    Japanese archer does not retreat from lands. Sigh. Stupid AI.
    F archer approaches Chittagong.
    F archer near Kolhapur turns around and heads towards Dacca. Fine by me – I’ll kill him over there.

    920 AD
    Vet horse kills 1hp f horse outside of Bangal.
    Punjab to build catapult.

    Japanese archer continues to advance. Time to tell him to go. Bet he is going to declare war. Sigh.
    F horse actually managed to kill a sword in Bengal. But leave 2 horse exposed to attack to do it.
    F horse appears near Bangalore again.

    930 AD
    F archer near Dacca dies to Vet horse.
    Japan told to leave – said he would, but is still in my lands. He is near too many workers to protect them all. If he attacks, he will take a stack temporarily. He will never escape. Though extremely irritating, I move some of the threatened workers away.
    Horses outside Bengal killed or driven off. One of my horses promotes to elite.

    Scattered French attacks – no damage. France advances on Bangalore. Odd choice. Banagalore is heavily defended.
    Japanese archer walks past workers. He doesn’t leave, but he seems intent on heading north.???

    940 AD
    There be war elephants in India! We are about to enter a Golden Age!
    Kill a horse and archer near Bengal. No losses. This war is costing France. They must have traded for horses at some point because they are back to using archers again.

    French archer kills swordsmen at Bengal. Grrr.

    950 AD
    F horses near Bangalore killed.
    War Elephant kills f archer near Bengal.
    We are in a golden age!
    Science to 70% - engineering in 6 at breakeven.

    French won’t talk.
    Turn many builds over to infrastructure.

    France move a warrior toward Bangalore. I think they are about done for?
    Germany moves some horses near Bengalore. Not too concerned. I have WEs
    Lone f spear moves toward Bombay. Suicide run?

    960 AD

    German horse/settler pair invades India. Sigh.

    970 AD
    I lose my 1 war elephant to a stupid redlined spear. Stupid RNG. Sword takes out the spear afterwards.
    Peace with France again. How long will it last this time?

    France continues to invade India.
    Germany continues to invade India. A spear/Settler pair also invades.

    Tell France to leave, they agree, but don’t go.
    Watch germans, but let them move – for now.

    Japan threatens me for chivalry. Tell him to stuff it. He, in fact, stuffs it and his archer moves off to bother the northern French town of Dijon.

    990 AD
    Tell France to leave again. They declare war instead.
    Kill F spear with Vet horse – promotes to elite!
    Kill F Warrior with sword after it redlines a reg horse. Sword promotes to elite!
    Engineering in 1, +40gpt.

    French city of Rouen riots. Goody. Hopefully we will pick it up next round as a cultural conversion.
    No French army activity.

    1000 AD
    Time to kick Germans out. Germans declare, of course.
    Kill g horse, capture settler.
    G spear kills reg sword out of Bangalore, but elite 4hp sword kills spearman. Take slaves. Send spear out of Bangalore to cover redlined elite sword.
    India is sovereign except for a French boat near Avignon.
    Indian Civ in 1000 AD:
    15 cities. We are in a golden age. #1 in approval, population, GNP, Manufacturing, Productivity. #2 in income and others.
    16 workers. 7 Slaves. 7 warriors, 1 archer, 7 spearmen, 12 swordsmen, 13 horsemen, 2 cats.
    India is the tech leader in our area and we have war elephants coming off the assembly line. FP in 4 turns. Many core cities have basic infrastructure.
    France only has 10 cities. Germany only has 10 cities. Things are looking better!
    We are ahead of Germany on the histograph and will soon overtake Japan, then France. China is ahead of us, but only by 100.

    French move 1 horse forward.
    German advances a spear, archer and settler. I didn’t know the AI used combat settlers. Maybe he is just looking to feed my slave population?

    1010-1050 AD
    Lots of fighting. Killed a lot of German and French units. War Elephants are building. FP builds in 1040 in Madras. All cities are now core, productive cities. Many tiles are improved and things are looking up. I pick off at least 1 german horse each round after it attacks the spear in Grenoble and R&Rs. Vet horse sallies out, kills it and returns to Grenoble. What a waste, germany.

    Dijon doesn’t want to be French anymore and who can blame them? Dijon is now Indian and we receive a War Elephant free unit! Cool. One lone French archer is on a hill overlooking the once French Dijon. Indian swordsmen takes care of that.

    1080 AD
    France begs for peace give it to them for all their gold.
    Still at war with germany, but continuing to roll up their units without much loss.
    Continue to build military and infrastructure. Tech leader. Winning is given now.

    1130 AD
    We learn gunpowder – we have salt but France does not. Germany does as well. Japan and China do not appear to have it either!

    1140 AD
    Let Germany out of war for all his gold (9gp) and Theology.

    1160 AD
    Our Golden Age is over – but we are well ahead now.

    1170 AD
    France invade again. Tell them to get out. Say they will but . . .
    Meet Persian settler – he doesn’t even have poly? What the heck happened to them?

    1180 AD
    France declares war on us AGAIN after being told they are unwanted guests AGAIN.

    1210 AD
    At war with France.
    Current count: 20 cities. 18 workers. About 10 slaves. 6 warriors, 1 archer, 7 spearmen, 14 swordsmen, 13 horsemen, 2 cats, 3 galleys, 15 War Elephants.

    Attached Files:

  8. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010
    And this is a world without France or Germany in 1430 AD. That will teach them to pick on India. By 1310 we get to see the whole world and talk to everyone. They are all behind in techs. We are the clear leader now - they will be buying their techs from us. The game is in the bag now.

    Spoiler :
    Avignon taken from the French at the end of a tusk. They said they wanted ivory. I must have misunderstood the request.
    All French forces in India sent to next life. Send message to Joan that Rouen is next but she refuses to listen.

    Tell Mao to take his settler for a walk and bring his swordsmen with. He complies and I help with the boot.

    1240 AD
    Take Rouen from the French. Send thank you card to Joan for the worker left inside. Lost 1 war elephant for F archer – they finally have invention. I consider it a fair trade. Still have plenty of Jungle around here.
    Staging to take Amiens.
    Tell Japanese to take a hike. They agree but don’t move.
    We are more powerful than Germany and Persia. France will fall in a few turns. Aiming for Japan.

    1250 AD
    French protecting settlers with horsemen. Haha. WE takes 2 slaves on boarder.
    Tell Japanese to leave, they agree, but don’t go. Why didn’t it kick them out?

    1260 AD
    We get Chemistry – go for Metallurgy.
    Finally manage to kick Japan out of Indian lands. Japan leaves meekly.
    Waiting for next batch of WE to continue the attack. Onslaught will begin in 3 turns. Plan to take Amiens, Tours and Poitiers.

    1270 AD
    French spears are incredibly lucky. I lose 2 WE and only take Amiens in the first round.
    5 WE outside of Tours – France got Iron from somewhere because they have pikemen in Tours.

    1280 AD
    Take Tours, no losses.
    France continues to invade with swords, spears, archers and settlers. I am particularly afraid of the settlers.
    India is 5 points behind France and 13 points behind Japan. China is 117 points ahead. We are culturally stronger vs. all.
    Two of my top producing cities are producing wonders – Leos and Sistine. I will get Leo. Not sure about Sistine. At worst I will use it for a military academy

    1290 AD
    Take Orleans. The French are done for. They are down to 7 cities and I am starting to take their core. Jungle terrain is slowing my advance. Another batch of WE due in 1-3 turns. That will help the advance. Start War against Germany in about 10 turns unless Japan declares war. Might attack Germany even if they do.

    1300 AD
    Staging to take Chartres. Pointers will also be next.

    1305 AD
    Chartes falls, no losses. Kill a pike, spear and LB. France is cut in half.
    France falls to the wayside in Histograph. Japan is only 6 points ahead.
    6 cities left.

    1310 AD
    Pointers falls.
    Trade dyes to Japan for contact with Egyptians and Romans.
    They are as backwards as the Persians. They have been fighting over an island.
    Sell both Theology for all their gold and some gpt and world maps. We now know all the civs and can see the world.
    Note regarding plans – GL expires with Education. Will avoid learning education and will take Paris last to capture GL and as many side techs as possible.
    Also, I have had Lahore pumping out 1 worker every 2 turns for the last 20 turns to build up my worker count.
    Current Count: 2 settlers, 27 workers, about 15 slaves, 6 warriors, 1 archer, 7 spearmen, 15 swords, 13 horse, 1 musket, 2 cats, 3 galleys, 24 WE.
    According to Histography, China is in the lead (113 point ahead of India). Then Egypt and Japan, though both of those will be overtaken easily.

    1315 AD
    Start to build up near Marseilles. Send a few WE from Bangalore to assist.

    1320 AD
    We get Leos. Read to upgrade horse to Cavalry. Waiting 7 turns. Then overrun Germany.

    1325 AD
    Orleans overthrows us for the French. Stupid French people. France won’t be around much longer. Takes 2 elephants with them, though.
    Pike in Orleans is invincible. Redlines 2 WE, 1 elite, 1 vet. No damage to pike?
    Marseilles falls.

    1330 AD
    Kick Japan out. Tell Germans to leave. All agree.
    France begs for peace and tell Joan to shove it. She declared war on ME . . . for the 10th time this game. Time to die.

    1335 AD
    Orleans falls again – kills one WE. Killer Pike!
    Stage outside of Rheims. Not much left of France.
    India overtakes Japan. 11 points behind Egypt. 110 behind China but closing the gap.
    Cavalry in 4 turns.
    Starve all French cities.

    1345 AD
    Rheims falls. WE production is high. Currently 29 WE.

    1350 AD
    Besancon falls.
    France has 2 cities left. Lyons is next on the list.
    Leaving Orleans, Chartres and Marseilles without guards. WE nearby if flip.
    3 more WE on route to theater of war.

    1355 AD
    I don’t see the French learning any new techs an the rest of the world is also far behind. All the AI has is Education and they have been stuck there for the last 20 turns or so. Staging to take last 2 French cities.
    Set to learn PP to trade around.

    1360 AD
    Upgrade 9 vet horse to cavalry with Leos it only costs 450gp which I happily pay for these great units. Also have 31 WE. German is toast.

    1365 AD
    France will be dead next turn. Start picking on Germany. Staging units for a quick conques.

    1370 AD
    Dang. France has a size 1 city hidden in Germany. I guess the live for the next few rounds.
    Make peace with France. Attack Germany next round.

    1375 AD
    Declare war on Germany.
    We are ahead of Egypt in the Histograph. China is less than 100 points ahead.
    Take Frankfurt, 2 slaves, kill a few wandering units. Stage near Cologne and Bremen.

    1380 AD
    Germany responds with 1 swordsmen. He can’t even reach my stack to attack.
    Take Cologne and kill wayward sword. Stage by Hamburg. Hamburg and Bremen next turn. Hamburg should allow me to attack Berlin and crush German spirits for all time.

    Bremen falls, but killer pike in Hamburg redlines 3 cavalry and kills 2 others!

    Take Hamburg after killer pick redlines a cav and kills a WE. Elite WE takes him out. The road to Berlin is wide open.
    A lone sword is seen on the top of a hill with a lone goat herd. Kill the sword. Let the goat herd live.

    Staging outside Berlin and Leipzig.

    1400 AD
    Berlin has fallen.

    1405 AD
    Hannover and Leipzig fall this round – kill about 7 units, pike and sword mix. Take about 10 slaves- the AI has workers and settlers built up, just waiting in these cities. Thanks!
    Germany is folding fast. 4 cities left and the left over French city is also nearby.
    Killed French LB near Konigsberg. I think that was the entire French army.

    1410 AD
    Heidelburg falls.
    Pick up Gems as 3rd luxury.
    Will get furs soon from Cologne.

    1420 AD
    Germans want peace – give it to them for 1 city, 3 workers and all their gold. My reputation is already trashed so I don’t care. Besides, they’ve been making peace and then declaring war all game. I declare war immediately again. Thanks for the stuff.
    Also pick up incense by Nuremberg, but already had that.

    1425 AD
    The Germans are no more. I am staging to take the last French city as well. Then I will immediately attack the Japanese. I bet they were hoping I would forget that they helped to dog pile me back in 290 AD. Its payback. They are nowhere near Cavalry. I’m not even sure they have salt. Hahahaha.
    Trade Printing Press around to everyone and make a huge bundle. Nearly 400gp and 28gpt all told. All Civs banks nearly wiped out during transaction. Still way ahead in techs.

    1430 AD
    French are dead.
    This is a world without France or Germany.
    Pick up furs.
    Kick Japan out of my lands again. Japan is give me gpt for PP, but I was really just after his treasury. Going to Declare war anyway Pause 1-2 turns to gather/heal forces, then attack.

    Attached Files:

  9. Ronojoy1917

    Ronojoy1917 Chieftain

    Jan 18, 2009
    The Far East!!
    Wow. I'll look at the saves.
  10. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010
    Sorry, didn't post the 1430 AD save. Here it is. I think I saved it mid-turn - can't remember - so take that into account.

    **Edit** I noticed two things during this game that I thought I would ask about if any lurkers know:

    1. Horsemen seemed to retreat 100% of the time unless fighting a redlined unit. I thought it was supposed to be 50%? Is this a quirk of Vanilla Civ? All other fast movers - Knights/War Elephants and Cavalry seem to die like normal (50/50).

    2. Germany is dead as a Civ, but germany citizens are still resisting. I've never had this problem in PTW - usually when you declare peace or wipe them out, next turn, all resisters go to being normal citizens.

    Just thought I would point these two things out. One last note - the RNG was pretty cruel in this game. Perhaps it was just the luck of the draw, but it seemed that I lost a lot of battles I should have won.

    Attached Files:

  11. CKS

    CKS Chieftain

    Feb 9, 2004
    I think the retreat chances were much higher in early versions of vanilla, but having horsemen retreat at a different rate than knights seems peculiar.

    Even when a tribe is eliminated, their citizens need to be pacified before they stop resisting. If you don't have military units around, they'll go on resisting forever. I often have this situation in the late game - with everything railed, I send all my units to the front and have nobody left for pacification duty. In PTW and Conquests resistors will be immediately pacified by units, though, once the tribe is gone. I've never played vanilla, so I don't know if it is different.
  12. Quentonious

    Quentonious Chieftain

    Jan 15, 2010
    Civil Disorder:
    The default setting for happiness (money given to the people in forms of entertainment, and such) is 0%. when you build a good base of money, up it to around 20% (you can set it on your advisor screen).
  13. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Jul 29, 2009
    This would depend on how many cities are in disorder. If just one or two, use a joker. If more, then, yes, use the slider.

    I always go for luxury resources. That's usually my #1 reason for war. I want as many luxuries as possible and build markets once I have three or more.
  14. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010
    It is also dependent on what stage of the game you are in. I generally agree with you, but a clown during REX is counter productive. I would much rather part with the gpt than with the lost food/shield production if I have no other choice.

    I would argue that once you have a strong base, that is when I am least likely to use the luxury slider and favor clown in select cities more. At this point, it becomes a matter of MM - 1) If the city is at max size (or the max size I want), then fpt doesn't matter. 2) If lost shield production does not effect unit production, then the lost spt doesn't matter. Then it is a matter of weighing in lost income from working a tile vs. the cost of the luxury slider.

    Of course, you may chose a higher luxury setting for other reasons - such as an increased score or to trigger WLTKDs.
  15. Dusk Horizon

    Dusk Horizon Chieftain

    Sep 21, 2010


    First : Ronojoy i hope you don't mind i will use your thread to scream for help by myself ? ;) Most of questions i have are connected with answers those great guys gave you.

    Second : Excuse me for my English i always try to write things properly but i know there will be some glitches ;)

    OK i will tell my story : I played CIV IV some time ago, i was quite successful with that and i enjoyed it much. Because of some technical problems with my main PC i am stuck with older computer for a like few months or so.

    So my 1st thought is : wow I'm gonna play CIV III.... make a long story short : I'm completely confused and Monarch AI isn't giving me any chances.

    Now i read a little bit (this topic for example) and some thing are much clearer now, not all tho :)

    1. Why AI hate me so much ? Most of them are annoyed at very start, they want some gold from me , and if i refuse they declare war, one after another. Last game i was making gifts for Byzantium all the time (sending them gold) and they still were 'Polite' max.

    2.Is there any way to play Civ III kinda peacefully ? I mean i know there will be some wars but i don't like to be warmonger i always hate how war deflecting on my economy.

    3. I play as Hiawatha of the Iroquois because i like traits (AGR/COM) seems to suite my style of play. Is that a good pick ? Or it's a hard mode in CIV III ?

    4. How you balance amount of workers for your empire ? Early game is really PITA, specially when you said that worker should improve completely each tile that is worked, that will take some time (mine + road = 8 turns)

    Now some answers you gave to Ronojoy and i would love to have some more explanations :

    Do you mean beeline to Rep/Mon ? That will cost so many time :( What about all other useful things like i dunno : Iron Working for example, or horseback riding ?

    That shocked me a little bit i must admit. So i should build city max 3 squares from each other ? When i played i tried to make their big fat crosses don't cover each other, also i tried to build cities in places when they had chance to grow up fast. That resulted in 8 cities in 300 AD... and you said something about 30 cities in 1000 AD ? I really doubt if that is possible without some really hyper starting location.
    But I'm wrong i assume ?

    I would love to hear something more about it. Last game i started on grasslands, mainly covered by forests, food were main problem there and i can't really see how i can make settler/worker factory under those circumstances.

    OK that's it for now I hope some nice and friendly fellow will throw me some answers.


  16. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

    Feb 9, 2004
    Oviedo, Fl
    How many by 1000AD, is very dependant on many things. 30 should be quite doable, 8 by 30AD is a sign of serious problems.

    My take on CxxC is I only use that and the higher the level the more I stick to it. Why, well what good is 21 tiles for a town that cannot grow past size 12 till you have a hospital.

    I will not have a hospital as it is an optional tech that comes too late in the game. Lets say that was not a concern. You still need to play more than half the game to reach that point.

    The lower level games do not have much concern about defending early, so the value of being able to get units from the next town is of little use. For those who play DG or better or play war variants, it is critical.

    The lost worker turns from dealing with those dead tiles for most of the game is of interest. You have to travel farther over tiles that are not going to be worked for a very long time, if ever.

    In some games I will get Hospital from someone and stick one in a few places. They will still get to grow to the low teens or better, by stealing tiles from the next guy. Pushing that out to the towns that are less effective.

    As to the number of towns, the CxxC or wider is not a factor, other than the time to move the extra distance. Getting settlers out and defending the delimiter. Well that and neighbors.
  17. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Jul 29, 2009
    Welcome to the forums!:band: I'll try to deal with the questions in order. If I differ with vxma, listen to him.

    1. The AI Civs will demand things from you and declare war if you don't comply IF YOU'RE WEAK. This sounds like you're weak relative to the AI. At a low level, this shouldn't happen. The AI respects strength. Also, with few cities, the AI figures you are weak. I think this is due to slow expansion on your part. What level are you at?

    I usually don't care if the AI likes me or not. I'm probably going to kill them later and they can declare war even at Gracious. In CivIV you could avoid war through diplomacy. In CivIII you can't. If the military advisor tells you you have a strong military the AI is very unlikely to attack. In CivIV the AI didn't care much about your strength. In CivIII that's pretty much all they care about. The AI is much more opportunistic and will bully you.

    2. You don't have the option for "Always Peace" here. However, you can set the AI aggression on the second game setup screen. Set it to the least aggressive setting. At Chieftain this usually means you won't get attacked unless something really goes wrong.

    3. The Iriquous are a very good Civ. Agricultural is the strongest trait and Commercial is a good one, giving you less corruption and waste. The UU is also good.

    4. How many workers? Rule of thumb is 1 or 1.5 per city. Basically, if your cities are working unimproved tiles, you need more workers. Workers are the unit. Remember Dave McW on the CivIV forums. He used to post on the CivIII forums. He said the same thing then as now - 1.5 workers per city. But the rule about not working unimproved tiles is the important one.

    Republic Slingshot: It takes a while. On Chieftain, you reseach Writing, Alphabet, Code of Laws, and then Philosophy and take tell the computer to research Republic. If you're the first to Philosophy (you should be) you'll get Republic. Switch immediately and you're there! Personally, I don't switch again. Iriquois start with Writing so you have a head start. Don't deviate from the tech path - trade for everything else. If you are above Chieftain, try to trade for writing. Research at 20%, later 10% for the first tech. After that, use the gold saved up to research everything else at 100%. Trade for anything else you can get while you're slingshotting.

    8 cities by 300 AD? This is most of your problem. In the early game, don't build buildings except maybe a granary in one or two cities to get settlers faster. The only ancient wonder I will go for is Statue of Zeus if I have Ivory and Pyramids if I get an early SGL. Otherwise, you must expand! Other Civs see you as stronger if you have more cities. Have a Warrior or Archer in each city. The name of the game is expansion, peacefully early and aggressively later. Consider each building to see if it's worth it. Otherwise, military and early settling expansion is how you win.
  18. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Jul 29, 2009
    One tip about researching. Even at low levels, you can trade for Horseback Riding and Iron Working while going for Republic. Another possibility as Iriquouis is to go for Horseback Riding first and kill you neighbors with your UU. On a small map on low levels, you can win in the BC's doing this, but it's a little cheap.

    More than CivIV, this is an aggressive game. Expand early, attack later. The AI will charge a lot for resources, so taking them is often the better way to get them. The AI trades resources fair in CivIV, not CivIII.
  19. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2010

    Don't take it personal - the AI hates the human player. I'm sure there are some players that can get around this, but it is probably better to just ignore it. Furious, Gracious, doesn't matter. If the AI sees you as weak and thinks it can take from you, it will declare war. There is no such thing as 'friendly' nations. The AI will :backstab: whenever a chance presents itself. I'm not saying you should always treat every AI like a doormat or a dart board, but I wouldn't become attached to any 'friends' and be suspicious of everyone.

    The glass is half empty view is NO. Unless you start strong and remain strong the entire time and have all the luxuries and resources you want and need, perhaps. If no AI is going to trigger a victory before you can, then perhaps. If you never sign a MPP with a Civ that then declares war, then perhaps. Lots of ifs - too many to really say YES. Is it impossible? :dunno:

    A lot of people like this choice. I don't have C3C, only PTW, so I strongly prefer the Industrious trait.

    The main thing is not to waste worker turns and to make sure that you can use the improvements once they are done. The exception to this is roads - always (basically) road a tile before leaving it. Otherwise any unit trying to cross that space again wastes a turn. The 3 turns it takes to road a tile is nothing compared to this later cost.

    I think someone already said this, but research left to right, not up and down. If you beeline for Republic or Monarchy, you are research to the right - the AI will research the other things for you and you can trade for those. But on lower settings, it will take the AI a long time to research anything, so consider your difficulty setting. Generally even on Chieften the AI doesn't fairly well in the AA if there are good huts to pop and they can contact each other to trade.

    Other players may have a take on this and some nifty links. There are articles on this in the war academy. I personally had a hard time following some of them and it took practice to get good at it. They are very good articles, but sometimes it is hard to visualize without doing it.

    What I needed was hands on. I will upload a test game when I get home with an operating settler factory in the capital. Play around with it to create settlers and try to optimize it. Optimizing means wasting as few shields as possible to generate the settler (in the long run, this also means improving the fewest needed tiles for the factory so the worker can move on to other projects earlier – a settler factory will probably stay a settler factory for a long, long time).

    Generally the concept for a 4 turn settler factory is this - grow your population twice while making 30 shields to produce the settler. How to accomplish this: You will need a city with a Granary and +5 food per turn (fpt) that is under size 7. This means you will need some source of bonus food (in despotism). You get 2 free fpt from the city tile that is always worked. That means you need 3 more. Each citizen eats 2 fpt. So, a city size 5 needs to produce 15 fpt to get +5fpt (the other 10 are consumed by the citizens, 5*2fpt=10 fpt). That means you will need more than one cow or wheat ON A GRASSLAND tile. If it is on plains, then its effectiveness is severely reduced. A wheat on a floodplain is excellent, however and you'll only need one of those.

    What is important is that you keep the balance at +5fpt each round. You may be tempted to try to work that forest tile for the extra shields, but that will reduce you fpt income. So be careful to balance all your needs. With a granary and +5fpt, your city will grow twice in 4 turns. Requirement one complete.

    Shields - you need 30 shields in 4 turns. Any combination that gets you there is good, but let’s take a basic approach. For a settler factory, you could set up a site that gives you 7 shields on turn 1&2 and 8 shields on turn 3&4. 7+7+8+8=30. That will work. It is not optimal, but it will work (and it is easy to understand).

    So, build a city with a granary, under size 7, +5fpt that can produce 30 shields in 4 turns. One last thing - it is important that the city never grows beyond size 6. You can produce the settler on the same turn that the city is growing to size 7 - that will reduce it to size 5 and you can spend 2 turns at size 5 and 2 turns at size 6. Why? If the city grows to size 7 then the food requirement for growth doubles to 20 food (with a granary helping, otherwise 40 food).

    There are more efficient models then this, but once you have this under your belt, go back to the war academy and re-read the articles. They will tell you how to optimize your approach. Use the test game to practice what the academy explains.
  20. Dusk Horizon

    Dusk Horizon Chieftain

    Sep 21, 2010
    Thank you very much guys for those advices, I see a light in a tunnel now :)

    I started new game with France, and i felt in love ;) Isn't like Industrious best trait in game ? Can't imagine playing this game now without those hyper workers ;p

    Anyway, i played till 850 BC, got mine 10 cities up at this moment, and i consider this as not so bad result keeping in mind that i had 2 fast wars vs Persians and Babylonians.

    I screwed up at beginning by not building enough workers (i read post above about rule 1.5 worker per city when already playing) and now i have hard time to keep up those all upgrades.

    If anyone of you have some spare time i attached my save.

    I don't see any place to be proper settler factory, do you ?

    Please be cruel for me ;)

    edit :

    Now I'm confused, i played this save further and i changed gov to republic, and ... BANG my economy crashed, since i have small towns and unit support per town is 1... i have way too much units, and it's hard to advance towns to cities ( is that size 6 ?) because Military Force Limit is 0 and you said to not build temples, so I'm pretty much screwed, i had to put my research slider at 30 and entertainment at 20 to stabilize situation.. and i doubt i can play successful much longer with that settings..

    Any help for me ? Or advise to future ?

    Attached Files:

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