AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
There is an extremely good tutorial on how to create a settler factory in the war academy. I still look at it every so often - not only is it useful, it's really well written.
A noobs cry for help
- Thread starter Ronojoy1917
- Start date
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
There have been a lot of good responses here about the differences between Civ 3 and Civ 4. There's a few that I'd like to expand on.
First the notion of "over-irrigating", which is a concept that simply doesn't apply to civ 4. In that game it takes, at normal speed, 100 hammers to make a settler. With some minor exceptions, food can be traded on a one-to-one basis with hammers to produce the settler.
In civ 3, it takes thirty shields (hammers) and 2 pop to make a settler. Shields and food cannot be exchanged; food always leads to a growth in population and never helps production. Therefore, in civ 3 you want a balance between growth and shields. Ideally, if your objective is to produce a settler, you want your 30 shields and 2 pop to be achieved at exactly the same time. Therefore you want a balance between mining and irrigation which leads to growth and shield production happening at appropriately equivalent rates. In civ 3 flat land tiles can be either mined or irrigated so you want to get the correct balance between the two. It is possible to "over-mine" as well, although this is the less-common error.
Point two: I think you've grasped this one but it is really important: in civ 3, you want to grow like a weed. You should have 10 cities by 1000BC and, assuming that there aren't any limits on your available territory at least 30 by 1AD. Never EVER stop growing your empire, either through founding new cities or by conquering them.
Point three: buildings cost maintenance money in civ 3. Do not make any that you don't absolutely need. The great WackenOpenAir once said that, if you want to improve your game, don't build anything but granaries, harbours, aqueducts and barracks. That's all you need. Nothing else.
On granaries. In civ 4 almost every city should have one. In civ 3, only build them in cities with good growth potential. Find a site where, with a granary, you can build a worker every two turns. Use the worker to improve a tile or two and then meld it into a slow-growing city. Rinse and repeat.
Point four: the only decent government is Republic. Yes I know that under certain self-imposed rules (always war=Monarchy, 100K=Feudalism), other governments may be marginally superior. But in a normal civ3 game, republic is the way to go. Revolt as soon as you get there (when you get better, you might consider holding off a few turns) and then stick with it.
Point five: kinda goes with point four. Republic slingshot. Use it. Aim for it. In the early game, it should be your prime (almost only) objective. You should be able to pull it off at least up to emperor, and frequently through deity.
Point six: you are right that warriors have a far longer lifetime in civ 3 than civ 4. In fact, if your worry is barbs, don't even bother with warriors; simply let the buggers attack. Just make sure that you have minimal gold (a good thing in this game anyway) and no improvements in their target city.
Point seven: armies are awesome. Infinitely better than great generals. Get 'em. Use 'em. Abuse 'em. See SirPleb's article about army-fishing.
Point the last: do not be scared of the luxury slider. It is normal to run it up to 10-20% in the first few turns and even more as your capital grows bigger. Just make sure that it isn't growing out of control. Which takes us back to point the first.
First the notion of "over-irrigating", which is a concept that simply doesn't apply to civ 4. In that game it takes, at normal speed, 100 hammers to make a settler. With some minor exceptions, food can be traded on a one-to-one basis with hammers to produce the settler.
In civ 3, it takes thirty shields (hammers) and 2 pop to make a settler. Shields and food cannot be exchanged; food always leads to a growth in population and never helps production. Therefore, in civ 3 you want a balance between growth and shields. Ideally, if your objective is to produce a settler, you want your 30 shields and 2 pop to be achieved at exactly the same time. Therefore you want a balance between mining and irrigation which leads to growth and shield production happening at appropriately equivalent rates. In civ 3 flat land tiles can be either mined or irrigated so you want to get the correct balance between the two. It is possible to "over-mine" as well, although this is the less-common error.
Point two: I think you've grasped this one but it is really important: in civ 3, you want to grow like a weed. You should have 10 cities by 1000BC and, assuming that there aren't any limits on your available territory at least 30 by 1AD. Never EVER stop growing your empire, either through founding new cities or by conquering them.
Point three: buildings cost maintenance money in civ 3. Do not make any that you don't absolutely need. The great WackenOpenAir once said that, if you want to improve your game, don't build anything but granaries, harbours, aqueducts and barracks. That's all you need. Nothing else.
On granaries. In civ 4 almost every city should have one. In civ 3, only build them in cities with good growth potential. Find a site where, with a granary, you can build a worker every two turns. Use the worker to improve a tile or two and then meld it into a slow-growing city. Rinse and repeat.
Point four: the only decent government is Republic. Yes I know that under certain self-imposed rules (always war=Monarchy, 100K=Feudalism), other governments may be marginally superior. But in a normal civ3 game, republic is the way to go. Revolt as soon as you get there (when you get better, you might consider holding off a few turns) and then stick with it.
Point five: kinda goes with point four. Republic slingshot. Use it. Aim for it. In the early game, it should be your prime (almost only) objective. You should be able to pull it off at least up to emperor, and frequently through deity.
Point six: you are right that warriors have a far longer lifetime in civ 3 than civ 4. In fact, if your worry is barbs, don't even bother with warriors; simply let the buggers attack. Just make sure that you have minimal gold (a good thing in this game anyway) and no improvements in their target city.
Point seven: armies are awesome. Infinitely better than great generals. Get 'em. Use 'em. Abuse 'em. See SirPleb's article about army-fishing.
Point the last: do not be scared of the luxury slider. It is normal to run it up to 10-20% in the first few turns and even more as your capital grows bigger. Just make sure that it isn't growing out of control. Which takes us back to point the first.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
The only way to improve shield output is mining. Basically, all you can do is irrigate or mine - irrigation improves food, mining improves shields - and road, which gives commerce. (later, you can railroad, which improves either the mine or the irrigation)
That is much simpler than IV, of course.
The key for this part of the game that isn't simple is the despotism penalty, which is why a mined hill is no better than a mined BONUS grassland (the ones with the little silver dot on them). They both give 2 shields under despotism (a mined hill gives 3, one of which is lost - a mined BG gives 2, neither of which is lost)
You can slave settlers, but it's a very inefficient way to do things.
About barbs - they cannot take your cities - all they can do is take money and ruin production.
That is much simpler than IV, of course.
The key for this part of the game that isn't simple is the despotism penalty, which is why a mined hill is no better than a mined BONUS grassland (the ones with the little silver dot on them). They both give 2 shields under despotism (a mined hill gives 3, one of which is lost - a mined BG gives 2, neither of which is lost)
You can slave settlers, but it's a very inefficient way to do things.
About barbs - they cannot take your cities - all they can do is take money and ruin production.
Ronojoy1917
Warlord
I'll look at that settler factory article in the War Academy. Thats quite neat with the Diplomacy there, Railuven. Maybe I'm being too stingy in my tech trades? I just hesitate a little when Germany asks me to trade something like Code of Laws for the Wheel. Should I go in for seemingly unbalanced trades like that as well? They seem to be the only kind that the AI wants to accept.
At the risk of slipping into a habit of abandonment I think I'm going to leave this game. I'm also considering doing a sort of shadow game thing where I play for some turns, save and then post the save, asking for critique/help. I am however playing vanilla and unpatched, are there enough of you helpful posters out there who would be able to load that and help me out a little?
At the risk of slipping into a habit of abandonment I think I'm going to leave this game. I'm also considering doing a sort of shadow game thing where I play for some turns, save and then post the save, asking for critique/help. I am however playing vanilla and unpatched, are there enough of you helpful posters out there who would be able to load that and help me out a little?
**Warning - Long Post**
I loaded it up and played a few dozen turns. I will attach the game and a picture to show you how things look in 520 AD. I will list a few things that made this difficult - and also to point out the errors I realized that I made - a better player would probably have this game in hand by now. I am pretty sure we can win this, but it is slow going.
Some things I did not immediately note but that should be mentioned (or mentioned in greater detail):
Cities are all strung out - aside from corruption, which I did mention, this also makes defense very difficult. I have been struggling with unit movements. We have no depth, so everything needs protection. Initial expansion is also about insulating your inner cities so that you don't have to defend them - make a natural front line, and you are far better off- you can concentrate your armies. I am constantly defending both Bombay and Bangalore and it is a drain - I have a hard time building up superior numbers. When I first started, I couldn't figure out if they were after Bombay, Delhi or Lahore.
Also, City positions/terrain are not great- the AI will use hills and mountains to move to gain the defensive bonuses. They can advance via hills/moutains nearly the entire way into our nation.
Lack of workers amplified this problem - it was a long time before I had enough workers to get anything done.
Lack of barracks means I have regular units. It is all I can do to produce the units I need to fight a defensive warrior. I cant divert resources to building barracks at the moment. Ill have to do that piecemeal. Also, because the only barracks I have is in the capital, I am stuck with my best settler/worker factory turning out warriors instead. Also, my lack of experienced troops makes leader fishing very difficult.
I made some tactical error right away:
1. I wasn't realistic about the AI attitudes. France pulled Germany and Japan into war against me before I could do it against them. My initial tech trade should have attempted to pull them in against France. Instead, I am at the bottom of the dogpile and when I learn Monarchy I can't trade it. I should have allied Germany and Japan against France and then traded Monarchy around. However, I decided to move forward with the game anyway and see if I could pull it out.
2. I went for Iron right away for swordsman. I should have gone for the horses. Germany has come up with horsemen and now I am having trouble winning decisive victories without stringing out my own units to kill redlined horses.
With that said, this is what I did. I will probably follow this game to conclusion just because I have a vendetta against it now. For what it may be worth:
I loaded it up and played a few dozen turns. I will attach the game and a picture to show you how things look in 520 AD. I will list a few things that made this difficult - and also to point out the errors I realized that I made - a better player would probably have this game in hand by now. I am pretty sure we can win this, but it is slow going.
Some things I did not immediately note but that should be mentioned (or mentioned in greater detail):
Cities are all strung out - aside from corruption, which I did mention, this also makes defense very difficult. I have been struggling with unit movements. We have no depth, so everything needs protection. Initial expansion is also about insulating your inner cities so that you don't have to defend them - make a natural front line, and you are far better off- you can concentrate your armies. I am constantly defending both Bombay and Bangalore and it is a drain - I have a hard time building up superior numbers. When I first started, I couldn't figure out if they were after Bombay, Delhi or Lahore.
Also, City positions/terrain are not great- the AI will use hills and mountains to move to gain the defensive bonuses. They can advance via hills/moutains nearly the entire way into our nation.
Lack of workers amplified this problem - it was a long time before I had enough workers to get anything done.
Lack of barracks means I have regular units. It is all I can do to produce the units I need to fight a defensive warrior. I cant divert resources to building barracks at the moment. Ill have to do that piecemeal. Also, because the only barracks I have is in the capital, I am stuck with my best settler/worker factory turning out warriors instead. Also, my lack of experienced troops makes leader fishing very difficult.
I made some tactical error right away:
1. I wasn't realistic about the AI attitudes. France pulled Germany and Japan into war against me before I could do it against them. My initial tech trade should have attempted to pull them in against France. Instead, I am at the bottom of the dogpile and when I learn Monarchy I can't trade it. I should have allied Germany and Japan against France and then traded Monarchy around. However, I decided to move forward with the game anyway and see if I could pull it out.
2. I went for Iron right away for swordsman. I should have gone for the horses. Germany has come up with horsemen and now I am having trouble winning decisive victories without stringing out my own units to kill redlined horses.
With that said, this is what I did. I will probably follow this game to conclusion just because I have a vendetta against it now. For what it may be worth:
Spoiler :
Go into Ctl+P, check Always Wait at End of Turn.Attachments
Ronojoy1917
Warlord
Wow you seem to have gotten really into this game 
. I'll take a look at the save to get an idea of how you've fixed things up, but I don't think I can continue playing this, it doesn't feel like it belongs to me anymore. But I'd really appreciate if you'd keep posting your progress.
. I'll take a look at the save to get an idea of how you've fixed things up, but I don't think I can continue playing this, it doesn't feel like it belongs to me anymore. But I'd really appreciate if you'd keep posting your progress.Warning - another long post
Okay, this isn't the 'won' game, but it is now a given that we will win. The AI can't overtake India at this point. It is just a matter of cleaning up. I will admit that my MM has become a bit sloppy now that I know it is in the bag. It is currently 1210 AD and we are poised to destroy France. We are the tech leaders and we are the only ones that currently have knights. We are also the only ones that clearly have saltpeter - though no one is near MT yet. Our War Elephants are dominating the game. India is filling up the north. After dispatching suicidal France, Germany will be served up. After that, the dominos will fall. Just met Persia - there were isolated on a small island and are really lacking for techs. Still haven't met some of the Civs.
France and Germany are acting psychotic - they beg for peace on one hand and given me all they've got, then they turn around and declare war again in the next few rounds. Rinse, repeat. I've never had an AI that was so weird.
Here it is:
Okay, this isn't the 'won' game, but it is now a given that we will win. The AI can't overtake India at this point. It is just a matter of cleaning up. I will admit that my MM has become a bit sloppy now that I know it is in the bag. It is currently 1210 AD and we are poised to destroy France. We are the tech leaders and we are the only ones that currently have knights. We are also the only ones that clearly have saltpeter - though no one is near MT yet. Our War Elephants are dominating the game. India is filling up the north. After dispatching suicidal France, Germany will be served up. After that, the dominos will fall. Just met Persia - there were isolated on a small island and are really lacking for techs. Still haven't met some of the Civs.
France and Germany are acting psychotic - they beg for peace on one hand and given me all they've got, then they turn around and declare war again in the next few rounds. Rinse, repeat. I've never had an AI that was so weird.
Here it is:
Spoiler :
Attachments
And this is a world without France or Germany in 1430 AD. That will teach them to pick on India. By 1310 we get to see the whole world and talk to everyone. They are all behind in techs. We are the clear leader now - they will be buying their techs from us. The game is in the bag now.
Spoiler :
Attachments
Ronojoy1917
Warlord
Wow. I'll look at the saves.
Sorry, didn't post the 1430 AD save. Here it is. I think I saved it mid-turn - can't remember - so take that into account.
**Edit** I noticed two things during this game that I thought I would ask about if any lurkers know:
1. Horsemen seemed to retreat 100% of the time unless fighting a redlined unit. I thought it was supposed to be 50%? Is this a quirk of Vanilla Civ? All other fast movers - Knights/War Elephants and Cavalry seem to die like normal (50/50).
2. Germany is dead as a Civ, but germany citizens are still resisting. I've never had this problem in PTW - usually when you declare peace or wipe them out, next turn, all resisters go to being normal citizens.
Just thought I would point these two things out. One last note - the RNG was pretty cruel in this game. Perhaps it was just the luck of the draw, but it seemed that I lost a lot of battles I should have won.
**Edit** I noticed two things during this game that I thought I would ask about if any lurkers know:
1. Horsemen seemed to retreat 100% of the time unless fighting a redlined unit. I thought it was supposed to be 50%? Is this a quirk of Vanilla Civ? All other fast movers - Knights/War Elephants and Cavalry seem to die like normal (50/50).
2. Germany is dead as a Civ, but germany citizens are still resisting. I've never had this problem in PTW - usually when you declare peace or wipe them out, next turn, all resisters go to being normal citizens.
Just thought I would point these two things out. One last note - the RNG was pretty cruel in this game. Perhaps it was just the luck of the draw, but it seemed that I lost a lot of battles I should have won.
I think the retreat chances were much higher in early versions of vanilla, but having horsemen retreat at a different rate than knights seems peculiar.
Even when a tribe is eliminated, their citizens need to be pacified before they stop resisting. If you don't have military units around, they'll go on resisting forever. I often have this situation in the late game - with everything railed, I send all my units to the front and have nobody left for pacification duty. In PTW and Conquests resistors will be immediately pacified by units, though, once the tribe is gone. I've never played vanilla, so I don't know if it is different.
Even when a tribe is eliminated, their citizens need to be pacified before they stop resisting. If you don't have military units around, they'll go on resisting forever. I often have this situation in the late game - with everything railed, I send all my units to the front and have nobody left for pacification duty. In PTW and Conquests resistors will be immediately pacified by units, though, once the tribe is gone. I've never played vanilla, so I don't know if it is different.
Quentonious
Chieftain
Civil Disorder:
The default setting for happiness (money given to the people in forms of entertainment, and such) is 0%. when you build a good base of money, up it to around 20% (you can set it on your advisor screen).
The default setting for happiness (money given to the people in forms of entertainment, and such) is 0%. when you build a good base of money, up it to around 20% (you can set it on your advisor screen).
This would depend on how many cities are in disorder. If just one or two, use a joker. If more, then, yes, use the slider.
I always go for luxury resources. That's usually my #1 reason for war. I want as many luxuries as possible and build markets once I have three or more.
It is also dependent on what stage of the game you are in. I generally agree with you, but a clown during REX is counter productive. I would much rather part with the gpt than with the lost food/shield production if I have no other choice.
I would argue that once you have a strong base, that is when I am least likely to use the luxury slider and favor clown in select cities more. At this point, it becomes a matter of MM - 1) If the city is at max size (or the max size I want), then fpt doesn't matter. 2) If lost shield production does not effect unit production, then the lost spt doesn't matter. Then it is a matter of weighing in lost income from working a tile vs. the cost of the luxury slider.
Of course, you may chose a higher luxury setting for other reasons - such as an increased score or to trigger WLTKDs.
Dusk Horizon
Chieftain
LONG POST INCOMMING
First : Ronojoy i hope you don't mind i will use your thread to scream for help by myself ?
Most of questions i have are connected with answers those great guys gave you.Second : Excuse me for my English i always try to write things properly but i know there will be some glitches
OK i will tell my story : I played CIV IV some time ago, i was quite successful with that and i enjoyed it much. Because of some technical problems with my main PC i am stuck with older computer for a like few months or so.
So my 1st thought is : wow I'm gonna play CIV III.... make a long story short : I'm completely confused and Monarch AI isn't giving me any chances.
Now i read a little bit (this topic for example) and some thing are much clearer now, not all tho
1. Why AI hate me so much ? Most of them are annoyed at very start, they want some gold from me , and if i refuse they declare war, one after another. Last game i was making gifts for Byzantium all the time (sending them gold) and they still were 'Polite' max.
2.Is there any way to play Civ III kinda peacefully ? I mean i know there will be some wars but i don't like to be warmonger i always hate how war deflecting on my economy.
3. I play as Hiawatha of the Iroquois because i like traits (AGR/COM) seems to suite my style of play. Is that a good pick ? Or it's a hard mode in CIV III ?
4. How you balance amount of workers for your empire ? Early game is really PITA, specially when you said that worker should improve completely each tile that is worked, that will take some time (mine + road = 8 turns)
Now some answers you gave to Ronojoy and i would love to have some more explanations :
Do you mean beeline to Rep/Mon ? That will cost so many time
What about all other useful things like i dunno : Iron Working for example, or horseback riding ?That shocked me a little bit i must admit. So i should build city max 3 squares from each other ? When i played i tried to make their big fat crosses don't cover each other, also i tried to build cities in places when they had chance to grow up fast. That resulted in 8 cities in 300 AD... and you said something about 30 cities in 1000 AD ? I really doubt if that is possible without some really hyper starting location.
But I'm wrong i assume ?
I would love to hear something more about it. Last game i started on grasslands, mainly covered by forests, food were main problem there and i can't really see how i can make settler/worker factory under those circumstances.
OK that's it for now I hope some nice and friendly fellow will throw me some answers.
Regards.
How many by 1000AD, is very dependant on many things. 30 should be quite doable, 8 by 30AD is a sign of serious problems.
My take on CxxC is I only use that and the higher the level the more I stick to it. Why, well what good is 21 tiles for a town that cannot grow past size 12 till you have a hospital.
I will not have a hospital as it is an optional tech that comes too late in the game. Lets say that was not a concern. You still need to play more than half the game to reach that point.
The lower level games do not have much concern about defending early, so the value of being able to get units from the next town is of little use. For those who play DG or better or play war variants, it is critical.
The lost worker turns from dealing with those dead tiles for most of the game is of interest. You have to travel farther over tiles that are not going to be worked for a very long time, if ever.
In some games I will get Hospital from someone and stick one in a few places. They will still get to grow to the low teens or better, by stealing tiles from the next guy. Pushing that out to the towns that are less effective.
As to the number of towns, the CxxC or wider is not a factor, other than the time to move the extra distance. Getting settlers out and defending the delimiter. Well that and neighbors.
Welcome to the forums!
I'll try to deal with the questions in order. If I differ with vxma, listen to him.
1. The AI Civs will demand things from you and declare war if you don't comply IF YOU'RE WEAK. This sounds like you're weak relative to the AI. At a low level, this shouldn't happen. The AI respects strength. Also, with few cities, the AI figures you are weak. I think this is due to slow expansion on your part. What level are you at?
I usually don't care if the AI likes me or not. I'm probably going to kill them later and they can declare war even at Gracious. In CivIV you could avoid war through diplomacy. In CivIII you can't. If the military advisor tells you you have a strong military the AI is very unlikely to attack. In CivIV the AI didn't care much about your strength. In CivIII that's pretty much all they care about. The AI is much more opportunistic and will bully you.
2. You don't have the option for "Always Peace" here. However, you can set the AI aggression on the second game setup screen. Set it to the least aggressive setting. At Chieftain this usually means you won't get attacked unless something really goes wrong.
3. The Iriquous are a very good Civ. Agricultural is the strongest trait and Commercial is a good one, giving you less corruption and waste. The UU is also good.
4. How many workers? Rule of thumb is 1 or 1.5 per city. Basically, if your cities are working unimproved tiles, you need more workers. Workers are the unit. Remember Dave McW on the CivIV forums. He used to post on the CivIII forums. He said the same thing then as now - 1.5 workers per city. But the rule about not working unimproved tiles is the important one.
Republic Slingshot: It takes a while. On Chieftain, you reseach Writing, Alphabet, Code of Laws, and then Philosophy and take tell the computer to research Republic. If you're the first to Philosophy (you should be) you'll get Republic. Switch immediately and you're there! Personally, I don't switch again. Iriquois start with Writing so you have a head start. Don't deviate from the tech path - trade for everything else. If you are above Chieftain, try to trade for writing. Research at 20%, later 10% for the first tech. After that, use the gold saved up to research everything else at 100%. Trade for anything else you can get while you're slingshotting.
8 cities by 300 AD? This is most of your problem. In the early game, don't build buildings except maybe a granary in one or two cities to get settlers faster. The only ancient wonder I will go for is Statue of Zeus if I have Ivory and Pyramids if I get an early SGL. Otherwise, you must expand! Other Civs see you as stronger if you have more cities. Have a Warrior or Archer in each city. The name of the game is expansion, peacefully early and aggressively later. Consider each building to see if it's worth it. Otherwise, military and early settling expansion is how you win.
I'll try to deal with the questions in order. If I differ with vxma, listen to him.1. The AI Civs will demand things from you and declare war if you don't comply IF YOU'RE WEAK. This sounds like you're weak relative to the AI. At a low level, this shouldn't happen. The AI respects strength. Also, with few cities, the AI figures you are weak. I think this is due to slow expansion on your part. What level are you at?
I usually don't care if the AI likes me or not. I'm probably going to kill them later and they can declare war even at Gracious. In CivIV you could avoid war through diplomacy. In CivIII you can't. If the military advisor tells you you have a strong military the AI is very unlikely to attack. In CivIV the AI didn't care much about your strength. In CivIII that's pretty much all they care about. The AI is much more opportunistic and will bully you.
2. You don't have the option for "Always Peace" here. However, you can set the AI aggression on the second game setup screen. Set it to the least aggressive setting. At Chieftain this usually means you won't get attacked unless something really goes wrong.
3. The Iriquous are a very good Civ. Agricultural is the strongest trait and Commercial is a good one, giving you less corruption and waste. The UU is also good.
4. How many workers? Rule of thumb is 1 or 1.5 per city. Basically, if your cities are working unimproved tiles, you need more workers. Workers are the unit. Remember Dave McW on the CivIV forums. He used to post on the CivIII forums. He said the same thing then as now - 1.5 workers per city. But the rule about not working unimproved tiles is the important one.
Republic Slingshot: It takes a while. On Chieftain, you reseach Writing, Alphabet, Code of Laws, and then Philosophy and take tell the computer to research Republic. If you're the first to Philosophy (you should be) you'll get Republic. Switch immediately and you're there! Personally, I don't switch again. Iriquois start with Writing so you have a head start. Don't deviate from the tech path - trade for everything else. If you are above Chieftain, try to trade for writing. Research at 20%, later 10% for the first tech. After that, use the gold saved up to research everything else at 100%. Trade for anything else you can get while you're slingshotting.
8 cities by 300 AD? This is most of your problem. In the early game, don't build buildings except maybe a granary in one or two cities to get settlers faster. The only ancient wonder I will go for is Statue of Zeus if I have Ivory and Pyramids if I get an early SGL. Otherwise, you must expand! Other Civs see you as stronger if you have more cities. Have a Warrior or Archer in each city. The name of the game is expansion, peacefully early and aggressively later. Consider each building to see if it's worth it. Otherwise, military and early settling expansion is how you win.
One tip about researching. Even at low levels, you can trade for Horseback Riding and Iron Working while going for Republic. Another possibility as Iriquouis is to go for Horseback Riding first and kill you neighbors with your UU. On a small map on low levels, you can win in the BC's doing this, but it's a little cheap.
More than CivIV, this is an aggressive game. Expand early, attack later. The AI will charge a lot for resources, so taking them is often the better way to get them. The AI trades resources fair in CivIV, not CivIII.
More than CivIV, this is an aggressive game. Expand early, attack later. The AI will charge a lot for resources, so taking them is often the better way to get them. The AI trades resources fair in CivIV, not CivIII.
Don't take it personal - the AI hates the human player. I'm sure there are some players that can get around this, but it is probably better to just ignore it. Furious, Gracious, doesn't matter. If the AI sees you as weak and thinks it can take from you, it will declare war. There is no such thing as 'friendly' nations. The AI will
whenever a chance presents itself. I'm not saying you should always treat every AI like a doormat or a dart board, but I wouldn't become attached to any 'friends' and be suspicious of everyone.The glass is half empty view is NO. Unless you start strong and remain strong the entire time and have all the luxuries and resources you want and need, perhaps. If no AI is going to trigger a victory before you can, then perhaps. If you never sign a MPP with a Civ that then declares war, then perhaps. Lots of ifs - too many to really say YES. Is it impossible?
A lot of people like this choice. I don't have C3C, only PTW, so I strongly prefer the Industrious trait.
The main thing is not to waste worker turns and to make sure that you can use the improvements once they are done. The exception to this is roads - always (basically) road a tile before leaving it. Otherwise any unit trying to cross that space again wastes a turn. The 3 turns it takes to road a tile is nothing compared to this later cost.
Do you mean beeline to Rep/Mon ? That will cost so many time
I think someone already said this, but research left to right, not up and down. If you beeline for Republic or Monarchy, you are research to the right - the AI will research the other things for you and you can trade for those. But on lower settings, it will take the AI a long time to research anything, so consider your difficulty setting. Generally even on Chieften the AI doesn't fairly well in the AA if there are good huts to pop and they can contact each other to trade.
Other players may have a take on this and some nifty links. There are articles on this in the war academy. I personally had a hard time following some of them and it took practice to get good at it. They are very good articles, but sometimes it is hard to visualize without doing it.
What I needed was hands on. I will upload a test game when I get home with an operating settler factory in the capital. Play around with it to create settlers and try to optimize it. Optimizing means wasting as few shields as possible to generate the settler (in the long run, this also means improving the fewest needed tiles for the factory so the worker can move on to other projects earlier a settler factory will probably stay a settler factory for a long, long time).
Generally the concept for a 4 turn settler factory is this - grow your population twice while making 30 shields to produce the settler. How to accomplish this: You will need a city with a Granary and +5 food per turn (fpt) that is under size 7. This means you will need some source of bonus food (in despotism). You get 2 free fpt from the city tile that is always worked. That means you need 3 more. Each citizen eats 2 fpt. So, a city size 5 needs to produce 15 fpt to get +5fpt (the other 10 are consumed by the citizens, 5*2fpt=10 fpt). That means you will need more than one cow or wheat ON A GRASSLAND tile. If it is on plains, then its effectiveness is severely reduced. A wheat on a floodplain is excellent, however and you'll only need one of those.
What is important is that you keep the balance at +5fpt each round. You may be tempted to try to work that forest tile for the extra shields, but that will reduce you fpt income. So be careful to balance all your needs. With a granary and +5fpt, your city will grow twice in 4 turns. Requirement one complete.
Shields - you need 30 shields in 4 turns. Any combination that gets you there is good, but lets take a basic approach. For a settler factory, you could set up a site that gives you 7 shields on turn 1&2 and 8 shields on turn 3&4. 7+7+8+8=30. That will work. It is not optimal, but it will work (and it is easy to understand).
So, build a city with a granary, under size 7, +5fpt that can produce 30 shields in 4 turns. One last thing - it is important that the city never grows beyond size 6. You can produce the settler on the same turn that the city is growing to size 7 - that will reduce it to size 5 and you can spend 2 turns at size 5 and 2 turns at size 6. Why? If the city grows to size 7 then the food requirement for growth doubles to 20 food (with a granary helping, otherwise 40 food).
There are more efficient models then this, but once you have this under your belt, go back to the war academy and re-read the articles. They will tell you how to optimize your approach. Use the test game to practice what the academy explains.
Dusk Horizon
Chieftain
Thank you very much guys for those advices, I see a light in a tunnel now
I started new game with France, and i felt in love Isn't like Industrious best trait in game ? Can't imagine playing this game now without those hyper workers ;p
Anyway, i played till 850 BC, got mine 10 cities up at this moment, and i consider this as not so bad result keeping in mind that i had 2 fast wars vs Persians and Babylonians.
I screwed up at beginning by not building enough workers (i read post above about rule 1.5 worker per city when already playing) and now i have hard time to keep up those all upgrades.
If anyone of you have some spare time i attached my save.
I don't see any place to be proper settler factory, do you ?
Please be cruel for me
edit :
Now I'm confused, i played this save further and i changed gov to republic, and ... BANG my economy crashed, since i have small towns and unit support per town is 1... i have way too much units, and it's hard to advance towns to cities ( is that size 6 ?) because Military Force Limit is 0 and you said to not build temples, so I'm pretty much screwed, i had to put my research slider at 30 and entertainment at 20 to stabilize situation.. and i doubt i can play successful much longer with that settings..
Any help for me ? Or advise to future ?
I started new game with France, and i felt in love
Isn't like Industrious best trait in game ? Can't imagine playing this game now without those hyper workers ;pAnyway, i played till 850 BC, got mine 10 cities up at this moment, and i consider this as not so bad result keeping in mind that i had 2 fast wars vs Persians and Babylonians.
I screwed up at beginning by not building enough workers (i read post above about rule 1.5 worker per city when already playing) and now i have hard time to keep up those all upgrades.
If anyone of you have some spare time i attached my save.
I don't see any place to be proper settler factory, do you ?
Please be cruel for me
edit :
Now I'm confused, i played this save further and i changed gov to republic, and ... BANG my economy crashed, since i have small towns and unit support per town is 1... i have way too much units, and it's hard to advance towns to cities ( is that size 6 ?) because Military Force Limit is 0 and you said to not build temples, so I'm pretty much screwed, i had to put my research slider at 30 and entertainment at 20 to stabilize situation.. and i doubt i can play successful much longer with that settings..
Any help for me ? Or advise to future ?
