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A noobs cry for help

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ronojoy1917, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

    Joined:
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    This is a PTW game, if I am not mistaken, where corruption works the same as in Vanilla. So, that is what you are missing :p, but otherwise you are entirely right.
     
  2. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Minnesota
    The test was set up in PTW, thus the conversation. I don't have C3C, but from what I have read, RCP doesn't exist in C3C due to a fix. Since the test is in PTW, it is relevant.

    I've played this map many times for test games - the corruption is about 20% at RCP3 (Every 5th shield/gold is corrupt). At RCP 5 it is somewhere around 50%. So I think that the move from RCP4 to RCP7 would be signifant, losing at least somewhere between 20-30% efficiency, if not much more.
     
  3. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Okay, after almost a year I thought I would resurrect this post to fulfill my promise to make France, Germany, Japan and China pay for their ruthless, dishonorable treatment of India. I have some extra time now and figured I would get some closure on this game. I hate leaving unfinished games laying about. France and Germany are already destroyed starting in 1430 AD.

    What I noticed as I fired up the game was how much my play has changed in less than a year. At the start of this thread I was a die-hard monarchy player. I looked at this game after 9 months and :eek:. I definately had some tweaking to do. It was so bad I decided to jump to republic before making the final switch to democracy - something I would not have contemplated if I were not a religious Civ. I figure the two swaps probalby saved me at least the 1 extra round of anarchy it took.

    Although it is only a warlord game, it feels like a much, much harder game. Because of some early game decisions the cities are placed all wrong. Well, enough griping, here is the continued story up to the Industiral Age. Once I have rails I will continue the conquest. The odd shape of the landmass and my lack of even basic infrastructure made an invasion undesireable. I don't think I could have generated the ship chain much faster than rails. I will need an invasion fleet for Roman and Egypt, though.

    Here is the current World:


    Here is Japan, the next Invasion target:


    And the Log:
    Spoiler :
    New rundown – decided to finish this game and make good on my promise to destroy the French (done), Germany (done), Japan (next), and China for the arrogance of dog-piling India when we were down on our luck. After that, I’ll see if the order of the day is world domination or conquest. 100K, 20k are out. Could go space; diplo might work – I don’t think I’ve razed much this game.

    India, Warlord, 1430 AD (xx turns into the game).

    Take stock – boy, what a difference a year makes. Want out of Monarchy ASAP. Could go republic or just finish researching Democracy and enjoy the enhanced workers. As this game is already pretty far behind, I’ll go for democracy. I also need to move the palace.

    Current counts: 49 cities, 1 settler, 34 workers, 6 warriors (eek!), 8 spearmen, 15 swords, 3 horsemen, 1 longbow, 6 muskets, 25 cav, 2 cats, 2 cannon, 5 galley, 29 WE. Lot of slaves.

    Banking due in 5t @ +31gpt. Change to Banking due in 3t @ -58gpt.

    Change almost all of the builds. I must have been high on something when I set this up. Move combat units towards Japan. Once all are assembled there will nearly 20 combined Cav & Elephants on the front line.

    I’m religious so I will swap to Republic until I get to democracy.

    Also, trade Chem –

    Persia will give WM, 23gpt, 65gp. (525gp)
    Egypt will give WM, 26gpt, 48gp. (568gp)
    Rome will give WM, 27gpt, 25gp. (565gp)
    China will give WM, 27gpt, 30gp. (570gp)

    It will give them access to research physics, and still 2 techs away from cavalry. I can also use banking and democracy for trading if needed. China has no salt, neither does Japan.

    China is the best deal. Make the trade. Egypt was the second best. Pick up WM, 20gpt, 48gp. Next is Rome – 15gpt, 23gp. Persia will give WM, 6gpt, 67gp. Total = total haul, if I collect on all of it, is 1528gp.

    Before revolt [Income= 585 (+484 cities, +5 taxes, +96 other civs), expenses: 573 (-321 science, -161 corruption, -73 maintenance, -18 units), science at 100%, banking due in 3t. Treasury +12gpt]

    After revolt [Income=893 (+793 cities, +4 taxes, +95 other civs), expenses: 795 (-317 science, -269 corruption, -73 maintenance, -136 units), science at 60%, banking due in 3t. Treasury +98gpt]


    Corruption is up 108gpt, however, loss to corruption is actually about even, 33% of total city income.

    1435 AD
    Also, now that I can't use MPs, there’s no reason to keep all the old units. Before disbanding, order Japanese unit out. Give J archer the boot.

    Disband: all 6 warriors, 1 LB.
    Upgrade 4 spears to muskets. Upgrade horse to cav.

    Moving workers back towards core to optimize. What a mess. Change research on banking to 90%, due in 2t, -54gpt.


    1440 AD – disband a sword in Delhi. They can’t upgrade in vanilla so they all need to go eventually.

    Tell Japan to get out AGAIN – they oblige.

    1445 AD – set for democracy – due in 4t @ 58gpt. Upgrade spear to musket.

    Tell Japan to get out AGAIN. They tuck tail and flee. I’ve got too many units sitting around doing nothing. Going to declare on Japan next round.

    1450 AD – trade around banking:

    Persia gives 19gpt, 133gp. Egypt gives 16gpt, 95gp. Rome gives WM, 13gpt, 29gp. China gives WM, 9gpt, 21gp. Total is 1418gp.

    Current set for Democracy 3t @ +170gpt.

    Dial up Japan and give them the bad news. Matsuyama is defended only by spears. City immediately falls, no losses.

    IBT – There’s no Japanese counterattack. One samurai and one swordsman appear on the hills beyond Nuremberg.

    1455 AD – lose a cav to the annoying archer in the north; horseman finishes him off. Yokohama falls to cav, no loses. Still facing spears.

    IBT – lose 1 elite elephant to samurai, 1 samurai also dies.

    1460 AD - Kill samurai. Cav overrun Izumo that has 1 samurai and 1 pike.

    1465 AD – Nagasaki falls. After this short war, Japan is willing to leave me with my winnings and give me all their money – 16gpt & 108gp. I accept. I don’t care about the 20 turns, my rep is already busted.

    Physics due in 4t @ +208gpt. Revolt for democracy.

    1470 AD – India is a democracy and so we will remain. Start peaceful building. I’ll go after Japan after I collect all my money.

    So far their treachery has cost them 4 cities and 428gp. I look around and everyone is a republic.

    Push lux up 10% to keep everyone working. Physics in 4t @ +153gpt. Bachs due in 11t. Copes due in 12t.

    Establish embassies –
    Japan 49gp (Looks like they are in the middle of a riot – spt=29, 2.5/12 rows complete on cops; 55/57gpt.)
    Rome 66gp (spt=14, 31t to complete cops, 66/67gpt, they’ve got everything build in the capital, only 3 luxuries).
    Egypt 72gp (spt=19, 14t to complete cops, 59/60gpt, everything is built in the capital, only 3 luxuries).
    Persia 72gp (spt=17, 17t to complete cops, 44/45gpt, everything built in the capital).

    I have Bachs in 11t, Cops in 12t. Hopefully that means they will all be eating some big shields. Need to prevent a cascade to Newtons, however.

    Bach is building in Nanking, Memphis, Tarus. All just began. I’ve got a huge head start in my best city.

    1475 AD – 1485 AD – peaceful building, put up a lot of libraries and universities. Everyone has navigation now. Good job people!

    1490 AD – physics comes in, ToG in 4t. If nothing else I will grab Newtons in a cascade. With navigation in play magelleons is now available for cascade, which means Newtons is not a safe bet. Decide not to peddle democracy just yet. Soon.

    1495 AD – libraries and universities continue to build. Basic infrastructure is coming online. Hurry along a few builds with extra gold.

    IBT – China demands physics. That’ll be the day. China swallows its pride and crawls back under a rock. Yeah, that’s what I thought. I won’t forget this either. Your number is up right after I’m done with Japan.

    1505 AD – Japan settlers come into view.

    1510 AD – ToG comes in. Start Magnetism due in 4t @ +201gpt.

    Decide it is time to trade around Democracy – China gives Navigation, WM, 19gpt & 30gp. Egypt gives WM, 15gpt, 18gp. Japan gives WM, 11gpt, 113gp.

    1525 AD – Bach’s builds. One down. Everyone starts either Cops or Magellans. Can drop the lux rate back to 0%. Magnetism due in 1t @ +385gpt. Spread around a little cash to help with some infrastructure builds.

    1530 AD – cops builds. That’s gonna hurt some people for sure. Mag comes in, enter IA, set Steam due in 4t.
     
  4. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
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    This set began with a period of peaceful building. I forgot that I couldn't just disband cities to clear my core so I had to 'produced' them out of existence. Went on a building binge and got rails put down. I'm the tech leader; the AI cannot catch up now. I'm building wonders just because I can.

    Because of the resource grouping in Vanilla, I have 7 sources of coal in my lands - all the known coal I can see, though in later turns, 2 sources of coal are exhausted. Since I don't get a 'new coal' found message, I assume they were dropped on the AI. I identified at least one source went to China.

    Peaceful Turns: 1530AD - 1635AD
    Spoiler :
    1550 AD – Egypt starts Smiths, so they have Econ. India finishes research on steam. I’ve got 7 sources of coal already within my border. As far as I can see, no other AI has coal. Wow.

    Start backbone of rails.

    Trade Egypt Metal for Econ & 70gp. Now that the cat is out of the bag, trade Metal to China for WM, 17gpt & 105gp. Trade metal to Persia for 150gp straight up. Trade a university build to Smiths, due in 20t. I am also adding rails to boost production, something the AI cannot do.

    1555 AD – swap Chittagong to settler; will abandon next turn.

    1560 AD – Chittagong builds a settler and I realize that in Vanilla . . . I can't abandon a city! Start another settler. Rail building is shaving turns off wonder builds. Rail backbone is doing well.

    1565 AD – I’m sure I’ve got Newtons, no problem. Racing against Egypt for Smiths, but past review of Thebes revealed 19spt. I’ve got 28spt. Only question is if a Magellan pre-build cascades to claim Newtons or Smiths.

    China and Egypt have both come up with physics now. I trade it around to get the money – Roman gives WM, 12gpt & 108gp. Persia gives a straight 220gp. Japan gives up WM & 98gp – all they have.

    Medicine in, start Electricity. Start ToE prebuild.

    1570 – IBT peace with Japan continues. I accept because I want a few more rounds to get rails in place.

    1590 AD – Electricity researched. Set to SM due in 4t @ +80gpt. After watching trade it seems clear to me that China is almost to ToG. I could sell it for big bucks. I decide to hold out anyway – might risk losing it next round but it is worth 1 more round. Newton’s builds in 4t. I have plenty of other techs that can trade now. The AI will never catch up. Persia will get a freebee when they enter the IA, hopefully they draw nationalism.

    1595 AD – abandon Chittagong into a settler. China will definitely have ToG next round. I decide to sell it around. Rome offers the best deal with WM, 27gpt, 106gp. Persia follows with WM, 16gpt & 150gp. Egypt gives up WM & 360gp. Japan will trade 8gpt & 83gp. I won’t collect on the 8gpt, but I’ll take all their remaining income. Total sale = 1623gp.

    1610 AD – build Newtons. Score. Abandon New Karachi. Start ToE, due in 20t. SM done, start Replaceable Parts due in 4t @ +166gpt.

    1615 AD – China picks p Magellan’s at a price tag of 400 shields. Everyone swaps to Smiths, the only available wonder at 600 shields. That means the closest civ is at least 200 shields away. I’m less than 100 shields of in my best city at 32spt. Pretty sure Smith’s is in the bag now. Also building Wall Street and setting a new palace build to move palace to a better location/2nd core.

    1630 AD – Build Smiths, maintenance drops to -103gpt. Complete RP, start Industrialization, due in 4t @ +193gpt. Current treasury is 7548gp. Only have 1 source of rubber that I can see – in old Japanese lands, not connected. Go figure.

    Now that India has RP railing is going fast. Once I have rubber I will upgrade muskets to infantry and it will be time for war!

    1635 AD – Magnetism is about to come in for China/Egypt. Sell to Romans/Persians. Roman is willing to offer just a little more. Trade for WM, 17gpt, 40gp. Persia for 250gp up front. Take Japan for 5gpt, 140gp. I really just want their money. Its time to put Japan down. Industrialization due in 3t @ +287gpt.

    Rubber is connected and infantry upgraded. Interesting thing in Vanilla is that musket builds remain as muskets, they don’t immediately convert to infantry.

    By the end of my building phase I am making huge sums of money and I am tech trading for even more, though business has been slowing down. As I consider my position, I decide to destroy Japan. But I wasn't counting on Persia and Egypt signing a MPP and then:

    Spoiler :

    So by 1650 AD I am at war with everyone but Rome. It is India against the world again. But now I have Infantry and artillery. I'm having a rough time pulling GLs though. Very frustrating, but typical of my luck. The RNG is still murderous to boot, but once again, my cavalry seem to retreat nearly 100% of the time unless the defender is redlined.

    War Turns: 1640-1670
    Spoiler :
    1640 AD – Infantry and rails are in place. Upgrade 2 cats and 4 cannons into artillery. I’ve got 7548gp laying around and +283gpt at top research.

    Call Tokugawa and remind him of 290 AD when India needed an ally and was faced by only enemies. The Japanese and German ambassadors delivered their declarations of war with smug grins and French gold in their pockets. The Germans are now a memory and the French all but forgotten. It is Japan’s turn to join the annals of history.

    DOW on Japan.

    Cavalry kill a samurai and a swordsman. Otherwise I hold still to receive the Japanese attack and destroy their first responders. Then Tokyo.

    IBT – Persia and Egypt sign a MMP. Then Persian warrior invade my lands? You’ve got to be kidding.

    1645 AD – abandon Hyderabad. A source of coal disappears and reappears in China. Neither the Persians or Egyptians are paying me much in tech tribute.

    Tell Persia to leave, expecting they are looking to pick a fight against all reason. Sure enough they go from polite to declaring war. They have warriors confronting cavalry, elephants and infantry.

    This also means I’ll be at war with Egypt next. So that means only Rome has not declared on me. Now I’m feeling better about a conquest victory. I can also disregard the luxury slider for a while.

    Artillery pounds a small stack of Japanese invaders. Japan has cavalry.

    Japanese skirmishes.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 sword – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/4 cav – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 samurai – win, redline.
    5/5 WE vs 2/4 samurai – win, redline. Cover 1/5 WE with 3/3 Infantry.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 cav – win, -2hp.

    Battle for Sidon
    4/4 Cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless win, promote. Also triggers Persian MMP with Egypt. War all around I say!
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – retreat, -1hp to spear.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 spear – lose, -1 hp to spear. Typical RNG.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 spear – flawless win.
    Sidon is now an Indian town with 1 of 4 citizens in resistance.

    Battle for Tyre – 5/5 WE vs 3/3 warrior – win, -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 3/3 warrior (on mountain) – win, -1hp.
    Send 5 cav towards Tyre. Can’t get there in one turn because of endless forests the lazy Persians haven’t chopped yet.

    IBT – Egypt buys China into the war. There’s plenty of India to go around, folks. Japan’s response appears on m borders. Thanks. Just the people I wanted to eliminate.

    1650 AD – Resistance in Sidon ends. Industry comes in, corporation due in 4t @ +162gpt. Swap core cities to factories.

    Continued battle for Tyre.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, redline.
    Tyre falls into Indian hands.
    Capture two workers and Persia is expelled from the continent.

    Japanese Border
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 cav – win, -3hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 sword – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 Samurai – flawless win.
    5/5 WE vs 1/3 pike – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 sword – flawless victory.

    Spend almost 1000gp rushing some factories from pre-builds.

    IBT- Japan invades with an ambitious force -2 samurai, 2 swords, 1 musket, 1 pike. An individual pike and sword invade at two other points.

    1655 – another source of coal is exhausted. That’s pretty lame. Factories build, start US.

    Japan border, arty whittles down the stack.

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – retreat, pike -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 sword – win, -2hp, promote.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 sword – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 Samurai – win, - 1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/3 pike – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 musket – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 Samurai – win, -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 3/3 pike – win, -3hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 sword – win, -1hp.

    Upgrade many elephants to cav – how elephants become horses is beyond me. Maybe my cavalrymen ride elephants.

    IBT – zzz

    1660 AD – Time to press the attack on Japan.

    Battle for Tokyo –
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    Tokyo falls to India. Capture a worker. Install infantry to hold the city against attack.

    Set up for attack against Satsuma and Kagoshima.

    IBT – 4/4 sword vs 2/4 cav – sword dies, cav redlines but promotes. Works for me!
    First Chinese rider appears on the horizon.

    1665 AD – Corporation due in 1t, +211gp. Treasury = 7395gp.

    Battle for Satsuma (size 12 city on plains - this is going to be bloody). Review of troops shows that a bombarding frigate reduced a cav to 2/4.

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 musket – flawless win. That’s curious.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 musket – flawless retreat. That’s the RNG I know and remember.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 musket – retreat, musket -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – flawless win.
    Raze Satsuma. I have settlers to fill in the land and I don’t want to pacify 11 angry Japanese citizens. Collect a healthy 6 slaves.

    Settle Hyderbad in the hills that once belonged to Satsuma – start walls. May change later.

    Battle for Kagoshima (size 6 city on desert)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – lose, musket redlined, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – flawless win
    Reveal a 1/4 musket – one that I had bombarded with arty the round before and retreated.
    4/4 cav vs 1/4 musket – flawless win.
    Capture Kagoshima.

    Japanese borders – 5/5 cav vs 1/3 musket – flawless loss, musket promotes to 2/4. Of course.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 musket – flawless win.

    Stage to take Shimonoseki and Nara.

    IBT – Persia completes Shakespear. That may break the cascades, though it is possible that they have the Military Academy or Wallstreet as builds. None of those will cascade further, however, so it is as good as a deadend. I should have no problem pulling ToE, US and Hoovers.

    Lose a 3/3 infantry to riders, 1 rider dies, 1 redlines. Both attacker as vulnerable to counterattack.

    1670 AD – Kogoshima riots after being pacified. Corp comes in on budget, set to refining due in 4t @ +166gpt.

    Defense of Tokyo –
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 rider – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 rider – win, -1hp. What does a guy have to do to get a GL?

    Battle for Shimonoseki (size 6 city, desert)
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – lose, -1hp to musket but promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – flawless retreat. This RNG is stupid. This is 4.5 vs a 6. I should be winning these.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – lose -1hp to musket.
    4/4 cav vs 1/4 musket – flawless win.
    Shimonoseki is captured.

    Decide to send Cavalry after Nara to keep the momentum.

    Battle for Nara (size 9 city on a hill, this will be bloody)
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 musket - retreat, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – lose, -1hp but musket promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 musket – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 1/3 musket – flawless win.
    Nara is captured. Reveals three riders in the fog.

    Battle on the fields of Nara –
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 rider – win, -3hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 rider – lose, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 rider – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/4 rider – win, -2hp.

    See stack of Chinese units – 1 rider 4 pikes, 1 LB, 3 swords, 1 warrior.

    Japan has 5 cities remaining.


    The shape of the world by 1670AD:
     
  5. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
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    The war from 1670 AD to 1700 AD. Japan is no more and I've set a chokepoint between India and China. China is having troubles - they have both the missing sources of coal, but they have no salt and are using spears and pikes for defense. They do come up with Cav and a few muskets after I press the attack - they must have traded for salt - probably with Egypt, they have at least 4 sources. Even so, they are not upgrading fast and I am coming across a mixture of defensive units and other old units.

    When Japan falls I capture Sun's. Rome foolishly signed a trade embargo against me, which settles me on a conquest victory. China should be rounded up quick. ToE is about to come in and a generated GL has helped with a palace move to expand my productive core. I'll need to start working on ships for an invasion fleet.

    This is the 3rd debt repaid and the original instigators back in 280AD - 300 AD are now vanquished.



    Log 1670 AD - 1700 AD
    Spoiler :
    Pick up in 1670 AD – rush worker at Tokyo for 32gp.

    IBT – I lose a stack of 4 Japanese workers to a redline pike I forgot about. As this is Vanilla, the workers are not disbanded and are sent on an impossible run to get out of my territory.

    Lose a 2/4 cav to a 4/4 j cav. Another 2/4 cav retreats from a 5/5 c warrior. I can see 2 riders, 1 c warrior, 1 c sword, 1 j cav.

    Tokyo continues to riot.

    1675 AD – Hurry some workers and walls with my deep pockets of gold.

    5/5 cav vs 1/3 pike that stole my slaves – flawless win.
    4/4 cav recaptures my wayward slaves. Put them back to work.
    1/4 cav retreats to safety.

    Battle for the fields of Nara:

    5/5 cav vs 1/4 j cav – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 c rider – win, -3hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/4 c rider – win, -2hp.

    Stage on hill overlooking Kyoto for the death blow against Japan w/ 1 infantry (for cover) and 9 cav.

    Rush 2 aqueducts.

    IBT – Persia lands a 4/4 musket covering . . . two 3/3 warriors by Berlin. Guess I’ll just have to surrender.

    Tokyo is burning. India will add fuel to the fire.

    1680 AD – Wallstreet builds in Delhi. Start Factory.

    Artillery bombard incoming Chinese stack, redlining several units. Invading Persian musket is also redlined.

    Battle on the Rhine:
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 p musket – win, -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 3/3 p warrior – flawless win.
    5/5 WE vs 3/3 p warrior – flawless win.

    Battle for Toyko (size 12 city on grassland)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -3hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -2hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – win, -1hp.

    Kyoto is now under Indian rule. Sun Tzu’s Art of War is captured. Consider razing the city but decide to hold it. Put a large garrison in the city to quell the 5 resisters; starve city and set to produce a settler. Japan no long has horses – so no cav. They still have iron for samurai.

    Japanese capital jumps to Osaka.

    Battle for the fields of Nara (again):

    5/5 cav vs 5/5 c warrior – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 c pike – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 c pike – flawless win.
    3/3 cav vs 3/3 sword – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 sword – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 sword – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 LB – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 pike – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 pike – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 sword – win, -3hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 warrior – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 sword – win, -1hp.

    See new two Chinese stacks –Stack #1 - 2 pikes,2 swords, 2 warriors, all 3/3 expect one 4/4 sword. Stack #2 – 1 spear, 2 swords, 2 warriors- all 3/3.

    Also see that Xinjan has a 3/3 musket as top defender.

    IBT – frigates do some bombing on completely corrupt tiles.
    China wants to talk – Mao wants peace if I’ll give him Medicine. He must be reading a different report than me. I show that I just sent 12 of his units to the grave yard and about a half-dozen riders before that. I negotiate by taking medicine off the table and demanding all 140gp in his treasury. My foreign advisor tells me that Mao is insulted. I direct my cultural advisor to send him a fruit basket to smooth things over.

    China counters by advancing stack #1.

    1685 AD – arty whittles down stack #1.
    5/5 WE vs 1/3 pike – win -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 1/3 pike – win, 1hp.
    5/5 cav vs wayward 4/4 J LB – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 c warrior – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 c warrior – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 c sword – flawless win – and first GL!

    Don’t need an army – send Chandragupta to Marseilles to rush Palace jump.

    Battle for Xinjan (size 9 city, on plains)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – win, -2hp.
    Raze Xinjan. Capture a total of 10 slaves.

    Clean up remaining Chinese units, including stack #2 that is now revealed & vulnerable.

    4/4 cav vs 1/4 sword – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 sword – lose, sword redline. Hmm.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 sword – win -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 warrior – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 warrior – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 1/3 sword – flawless win.

    All Chinese units are destroyed.

    Stage 5 cav outside of Osaka. Japan has 3 cities left.

    IBT – Rome signs a trade embargo against use on Egypt’s behest. Rome is now on the list of Civs to be destroyed. Conquest it is!

    Chinese rider grabs 4 slaves. The send the slaves towards china but they’ll never make it out. I’ve become careless with workers because the AI does not disband them in Vanilla.

    Pollution strikes for the first time.

    1690 AD – Refining researched. Set to Atomic Theory. Turn research off. ToE due in 4t. +787gpt. India has 4 sources of oil.

    Rush palace at Marseilles. Current Stats: Income: +1347 from cities; Corruption: -423gpt.

    Arty redlines the slave stealing rider. 5/5 cav vs 1/4 rider – flawless win.
    Arty redlines a Chinese pike – 5/5 cav vs 1/3 pike – win, -1hp.

    Battle for Osaka (size 8 city on hill)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -2hp.
    Raze Osaka. +4 slaves.

    Send Cav to stage outside Nagoya, the new Japanese capital.

    Battle for Anyang (Chinese City size 6, grassland) – protected by a 3/3 spear? It would seem that China doesn’t have salt.

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 spear – flawless win.
    Raze Anyang for 3 slaves.

    IBT – lose 5 slaves to a raiding Chinese sword. 3/3 chinese sword kills itself on a 4/4 cav.

    1695 AD – palace builds and start to build second core. Current Stats: Income: +1362 from cities; Corruption: -405gpt. Move settler to chokepoint between India and China.

    Choke point:

    Spoiler :


    Arty redlines invading Chinese units.
    5/5 WE vs 1/3 sword – flawless win.
    4/4 cav reclaims 5 slaves.
    5/5 WE vs 1/3 pike – win, -1hp.

    Battle for Nagoya (size 6 city on tundra)
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless win.
    Capture Nagoya.

    Stage cav outside Edo.
    Place Infantry on hills to block Chinese reinforcements.

    IBT – Some bombardment from frigates. Nothing important.

    1700 AD – Build Chittagong at chokepoint – this will be the gateway to China.

    Battle for Edo (size 6 city on tundra)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    Edo falls. Japan is no more.

    Check in to see how Mao is doing. Suddenly he’s okay with a straight up peace. He’ll even give me the 39gp in his pockets. He won’t give me Nationalism, though, so I guess I’ll have to kill him anyway.

    Battle for Canton (size 12 city on hill)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 pike – flawless win.
    Raze Canton. I’ve no interest in pacifying 12 angry Chinese citizens. +6 slaves.
     
  6. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    India has seized control of the entire continent - well, unless you count the handful of cities the Romans are trying to establish. I think of them more as gifts.

    By 1762 AD, India's forces have staged an invasion of China's last stronghold. As they are defending with spear phalanxes, it is unlikely they will give India's 10 cavalry regiments and 2 battalions of infantry any trouble. India is still 10 turns away from tanks, so the invasion should be painless.

    This photo documents India's triumphant invasion and China's last stand.



    Pleas for a peace treaty have been flatly denied. It was China, after all, that declared war in 1645 AD. Indian diplomats also remind Mao that it was China that declared war on India in 450 AD. India cannot continue to accept such reckless behavior from an unruly world power. Now India will accept only unconditional surrender.

    Log 1705 AD - 1762 AD
    Spoiler :
    IBT – some invaders are dropped off. Persia, Egypt and China all drop a 3/3 warrior by Berlin. Not sure why they are so fascinated by Berlin.

    1705 AD – ToE due next turn.

    4/4 c cav vs 4/4 cav, loses.
    4/4 rider vs 5/5 cav, win, -2hp.

    1705 AD – abandon Jaipur into a settler.

    5/5 cav v 2/4 rider – win, -1hp.

    Defense of Berlin

    5/5 Cav vs 3/3 p warrior – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 e warrior – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 c warrior – win, -2hp.

    Pause to take stock: 7 settlers, 58 workers, countless slaves, 12 swordsmen (got to get rid of these), 51 cavalry, 22 infantry, 6 artillery, 3 galleys, 2 galleons, 6 WE.

    Send all transport ships towards Bescancan to begin invasion force. Swap Besancon to harbor and rush for some chang rattling in my pockets.

    Income: 1534 (Cities: 1432, taxes: 35, other civs: 17, Interest: 50), Corruption: -449, Maintenance: -135, Unit Costs: -167. 8328gp in the treasure, +783gpt at 10/0/0.

    IBT – Persia lands 3/3 musket, 4/4 warrior, two 4/4 immortals by Berlin. Egypt lands a 4/4 war chariot by Berlin. China drops a 4/4 sword and 3/3 warrior by Berlin. Everyone loves Berlin!

    1710 AD – very disappointing – ToE builds and I don’t get to chose my techs- I get Free Artistry and Sanitation. Great. Set to Atomic Theory due in 4t @ -98gpt.

    With Sanitation comes hospitals, so I set a few cities to hospitals. Polution strike again and I forgot what a pain in the butt it is to move units in Vanilla.

    Found New Karachi with a combat settler. Start walls, 3 infantry fortify. The city is on a hill. A Chinese pike and settler are caught in my new cultural boarder and Tatung in only 1 tile away with a 3/3 musket on top.

    I rail to New Karachi immediately. Send artillery to bombard Tatung. Destroy Barracks, redline musket, reveal a 2/2 rifle. Kill a citizen. Redline rifle, reveal 3/3 pike. Drop pike to 2/3 and it remains on top.

    Send Artillery to Berlin for target practice. First shot redlines the musket.

    Battle for the fields of Berlin:

    5/5 WE vs 4/4 e chariot – win, -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 4/4 c sword – retreats, -2hp.
    5/5 WE vs 2/4 c sword – win, -2hp.
    5/5 Cav vs 3/3 c warrior – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 Immortal – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 Immortal – retreat, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/4 Immortal – win, -3hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 warrior – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 musket – win, -1hp.

    Berlin is safe again.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 pike in the open – win, -1hp. Grab settler/2 slaves.

    Battle for Tatung (size 8 city on plains)

    4/4 cav vs 2/3 pike – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 1/2 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 1/3 musket – flawless win.

    Raze city. Capture catapult & 4 slaves. Upgrade Cat to Arty.

    Send twelve 4/4 cav after Tientsin.

    Join some workers into productive cities. After arrangements, AT is due in 4t @ +13gpt. That’s a pretty big change.

    IBT – my Galleon sinks an attacking Frigate. No counter attack by China.

    1715 AD –slow Hoovers pre-build to due in 10 turns.

    Battle for Tientsin (size 12 city on plains):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – cat takes off 1 hp, retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – win, -3hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -3hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -3hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 cav – lose, -2hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 3/5 cav – win, -1hp.

    Raze Tientsin, capture catapult, +5 slaves.

    Spread some money around to complete some builds. Start ironclad in Bescancon. Send Infantry into Chinese territory to grab a few strong points. Also send a combat settler.

    IBT – Chinese lose 1 cav and kill one of my cav.

    1720 AD –

    4/4 cav vs 2/4 in the open – flawless win, see that Shanghai is guarded by a 4/4 pike. Move more infantry to protect cavs. Rush first ironclad.

    Because of my war posture, I hike luxury up to 10%. Make a few tax collectors and rush a few marketplaces. Need more luxuries. Atomic Theory in 2t @ -71gpt. Current Treasury = 7792gp.

    US due in 4 turns. I can get peace from Persia + 200gp. Egypt wants ME to give THEM steam and 40gp for peace. Umm, what? Didn’t you just see what I did to Japan and what I am currently doing to China?

    Check the histo-graph for the first time in a long time: India: 706, China: 596, Egypt: 407, Persia: 396, Rome: 275 (they are actually behind Japan and just ahead of France). Culture graph actually shows that Egypt might be ahead of me, but only by a little. Current culture count for India is 15877 +229 cpt.

    IBT – Chinese 3/3 pike invades? Persians bombard my western coast trying to disconnect one of my FIVE horse resources. Good choice, Xerxes.

    1725 AD – Top defender in Shanghai is still a pike. Combat settler carves out a nice piece of China for quick Cavalry movement. Found New Jaipur. Combat workers covered by infantry rail to and through New Jaipur.

    Battle for Shanghai (Size 8 city on plains):

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 pike – win, redline. Reveal 2/2 rifle.
    Decide to call in artillery - reduce city to size six, redline rifle and reveal a 3/3 pike.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – lose, -2hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 pike – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 1/2 Rifle – win, redline.
    Raze Shanghai. +3 Slaves.

    Scout Beijing, top defender is a 3/3 rifle. Use Artillery. Kill two citizens and reveal a 4/4 pike and a 2/2 rifle. Beijing is size 10 on grass. At least 3 defenders. I’ve got plenty of Cav and it is time to put the nail in China’s coffin.

    Battle for Beijing (Size 9 city on grassland):

    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – cat takes of a point, lose, -1hp to rifle, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Realize I’ve been attacking across a river. Correct my approach.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – lose, -2hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 3/4 pike – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 pike – win, -2hp.

    Capture Beijing with Sistines, 6 resisters out of 9 citizens. Turn all citizens to clowns. Capture a catapult. Rail to Beijing. Extract Cat and upgrade to artillery.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 pike wandering around New Karachi – win, -3hp, create GL. Build 1st Army. Load with Cav. Put in the field.

    Send 3 cav towards Chengdu and see a 3/3 musket on top.

    IBT – Persians beg for peace. They’ll still give me 200gp. I agree this time. Sure, let’s have peace. Rome and Egypt sign an MPP. That’s the end of both of them. There is no counter attack from China.

    1730 AD – Peace causes a few riots. Offer Egypt 40gp for peace. That doesn’t help- it’s the war with China that is making everyone mad. Even at 20% Lux I have electronics in 4t @ +55gpt.

    I see that Chengdu has upgrade to a rifle and has dropped to size 7, which means there is a conscript rifle I changdu.

    Looks like Persia and Egypt have both discovered steam. Decide to trade around Medicine to regain my gpt growth and complete the war against China.

    Rome will give WM, Nationalism, 35gp, 28gpt. = 595gp.
    Egypt will give WM, Nationalism, 111gp, 24gpt. = 591gp.
    Persia will give WM, Nationalism, 305gp, 13gpt. = 565gp.

    Technically Rome will give the most, but is the biggest risk for default. I take up Persia and wipe out their gold. I check back and Persia has no new techs – no communism.

    Without nationalism:

    Rome offers WM, 35gp, 31gpt. = 655gp.
    Egypt offers WM, 111gp, 27gpt. = 651gp.

    Take up Rome’s offer. Rome will also give me 16gpt for steam, which everyone else has – and no one has coal except me. I accept. Egypt will give me 111gpt & 16gpt for Medicine. Accept.

    Total gain from Medicine, a tech I am FAR, FAR beyond = 1651gp. Pick up an additional 320gp from steam.

    It actually appears that Persia had coal, though I can’t figure out from where?

    Electronics due in 4t @ +131gpt. With an eye towards conquest, I start to produce some cities out of existence.

    Battle for Chengdu (size 7 city, grassland)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win -1hp.
    3/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    3/3 pike on top. Send reinforcements.

    Send Cav army to explore Nanking – it is burning with a 3/3 musket on top.

    IBT – cat bombs cav army. Oil is exhausted by reappears in my lands. China drops a pike and settler by a stack of 5 cav I have healing from the Tientsin campaign.

    1735 AD – Build a few cathedrals to pacify the crowds – they are particularly effective since I captured Sistine’s.

    Chengdu is now size six with a 2/2 rifle on top. A 2/2 rifle was worth the 50% city bonus? Well, maybe. They are doomed either way.

    Battle for Chengdu (size 6 city on grassland)

    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – cat knocks off a point, win, -2hp total.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -2hp.
    Raze Chengdu, destroy a frigate in port, and capture a catapult, +3 slaves.

    Battle for Nanking (Size 11 city on grassland):

    11/14 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    Top defender is a 2/2 rifle. Send reinforcements.

    Scout Tsigntao – size 11 city, top defender is a 3/3 musket.

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 pike covering a settler – win, -2hp, promote, +2 slaves.

    IBT – zzz

    1740 AD – US builds. HE & Academy become available. Start the HE in Marseilles.

    Battle for Nanking (size 11 city on grassland):

    9/14 cav army vs 2/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -2hp, promote.
    Capture Nanking & Magellan’s – will be useful to sea invasions. 8 of 11 citizens are resisters. Capture catapult. Start the starving process. Rail to Nanking, send cat back to become artillery.

    Put 8 cav outside Tsingtao which now has a 3/3 rifle on top.

    IBT – lose a source of iron.

    Battle for Tsingtao (size 9 city on grassland – with silks!)

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat, cat takes off -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp, cat takes off -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat, cat takes off -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -3hp, promote, cat takes off -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – lose, -1hp, rifle promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 rifle – lose, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    1/4 rifle on top. Send 8 cav reinforcements from healed units.

    IBT – Rome founds Ravenna in old Chinese land. Not to worry. I’ll be back to even up the score soon.

    1750 AD – Electronics comes in, set to steel, due in 4t @ +197gpt. Swap Palace build due in 1t for Hoovers - and still have 19t to go? How does that work?

    Battle for Tsingtao (size 8 city on grassland w/silks & 4 catapults)

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 rifle – retreat, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 rifle – win, -1hp, promote.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -3hp.
    Capture Tsingtao, 4 catapults and silks. China is cut in halves. Send cats to become Artillery.

    Drop Lux to 10%, Steel due in 4t @ +311gpt.

    Send Army & 7 cav towards Macao. Top defender is a 3/3 rifle. Send 7 cav and 11 artillery covered by 2 infantry to take Hangchow. Hangchow’s top defender is a 3/3 pike.

    Hurry some builds.

    IBT – Nanking deposes my forces and flips to China.

    1752 AD – artillery pounds Hangchow into a size 6 city with all wounded defenders.

    Battle for Hangchow (size 6 city on grass)

    5/5 cav vs 2/3 pike – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/2 Rifle – win, -4hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 pike – win, -1hp.
    Raze Hangchow. Capture 1 cat, +4 slaves.

    Battle for Macao (size 8 city on hils):

    12/14 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -4hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, redline.
    Raze Macao, sink frigate in port, +4 slaves.

    Scout Shantung and see it is guarded by spears – top defender is a 3/3 spear.

    Battle for Shantung (size 8 city on hills):

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    Raze Shantung, sink frigate & galley in port, +4 slaves.

    China is down to 3 cities on the continent and 6 cities total.

    IBT – Persians are sailing towards empty x-china lands.

    1754 AD – Steel due in 2t @ +460gp at 40% science.

    Artillery pounds Nanking - redlines all defenders.

    Battle for Nanking (size 8 city on grassland)

    4/4 cav vs 1/2 rifle – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/2 rifle – win, -2hp.
    Capture Nanking – again. Set to starve. 5 resisters.

    Settle New Bengal to capture silks and make a port for invasion of Rome.

    Send Cavalry after the last 2 chinese cities on the continent.

    There’s a lot of wild lands, barbs must be turned off.

    Rush some builds. Rush an ironclad.

    IBT – zzz

    1756 AD – build HE, start academy. Lots of units build.

    Battle for Chinan (city size 6, tundra – still guarded by only a pike):

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 pike – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -3hp.
    Raze Chinan, sink frigate in port. +3 slaves.

    Battle of the New Bengal Sea – 4/4 ironclad vs 1/4 Frigate – flawless victory.
    Escorted galleons make port.

    IBT – rome drops a settler covered by a pike and a warrior. Whatever will I do?

    1758 AD – Steel finished, start Combustion due in 4t @ +295gpt (50% research).

    Battle for Ningpo (size 4 city on tundra):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – retreat, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/3 spear – win, -3hp.
    Raze Ningpo. +2 slaves.

    China is pushed off the continent.

    Rush some builds, rush an ironclad.

    IBT – zzz

    1760 AD – abandon Punjab into a worker. Load 10 cav & 2 infantry onto Galleons to assault China’s last island. Invasion is covered by an ironclad.

    IBT – Rome founds Hispalis in old China lands.

    1762 AD – Unload invasion force next to Kaifeng. Top defender is a 3/3 spear.

    Egypt has industrialization. Sell to Rome for WM, 50gp, 27gpt. Sell to Persia for WM, 109gp, 12gpt.
     
  7. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The final invasion of China and conquest of the island is quick. China is destroyed in 1768 AD. The 4th and final instigator is now dead; though Egypt and Persia are now on the list. Rome is also on the list, but as the last and final civ. I actually hope either Egypt or Persia will destroy them first.

    This message has been long in coming:



    India declares on Rome in 1768 AD (who needs peace?) and that pulls in Egypt on a MPP. India invades the Roman/Egyptian island in 1770 AD, landing next to Cumae with an 12/12 Cav army, 3 artillery, 1 combat settler, 4 infantry. Naval battles also start to heat up as India fights to defend the invasion route though the Sea of New Bengal.

    Cumae is razed in 1772 AD and India establishes a permanent foothold by founding Hyderabad - and seizing spices at the same time (6th luxury). There is much rejoicing throughout the land even though the democratic people of India were initially uncertain about the DOW on Rome.

    India follows this with DOW on Persia in 1780 AD. Once again the main continent is reserved for the people of India only.

    Make peace with Rome in 1784 AD and turn them against Egypt and Persia with a MPP.

    First tank vs spear battle occurs in 1788 AD at Hieraconpolis - and results in a flawless victory of tank over spear in one of the biggest upsets of the war. The odds were 20:1 for :spear:

    The current state of the world:



    Log 1764AD-1788AD
    Spoiler :
    IBT – Barbs appear and attack infantry fortified in a fortress. Brave. Dumb. But brave. Egypt lands a settler, spear, archer pair. Really?

    1764 AD – Combustion in 1t @ +330gpt. Treasury: 7909gp. 7 settlers, 45 workers, 10 swords, 57 cav, 27 infantry, 16 artillery (most captured), 5 galleons, 4 ironclads.

    Disband all swords. Will also start merging workers. Got plenty of slaves.

    Battle for Kaifeng (size 5 city on grassland):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – replaced by 4/4 cav – win, redline.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    Raze Kaifeng. Sink frigate & 2 galleys in port. +2 slaves.

    Disperse barb camp.

    Send 7 cavs against Paoting, size 9 city, grassland. Top defender is a 3/3 pike. Stage to attack next round. Yangchow might be difficult because it is imbedded in forest.

    Shave Hoover’s build to 10t.

    IBT – Egypt founds Abydos on my continent. Persia lands a settler/Rifle.

    1766 AD – Combustion arrives, set to Mass Production, due in 4t @ +337gpt.

    Battle for Paoting (size 7 city on grass):

    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -3hp, promote. Cat took off 1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 LB – flawless win.
    Raze Paoting. Capture catapult. +3 slaves.

    Send remaining 4 fresh cavs after Yangchow (size 4, tundra, top defender 3/3 pike).

    Rush three destroyers, start upgrades to transports. Persia has sanitation now.

    IBT – Persia founds Dariush Kabir by China’s silks.

    1768 AD – abandon Hyderbad into a worker.

    Battle for Yangchow – city is rioting – size 3 on tundra.

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, redline.
    Raze Yangchow. Pick up 18gp. +1 slave. China is destroyed.

    Luxury to 0%. +646gpt.

    Can’t have peace in our time. DOW on Rome, which will also cause Egypt to DOW on me.

    5/5 cav vs 2/2 warrior – flawless win.

    Battle for Ravenna (size 1 city on plains):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 warrior – win, -1hp.
    Sink a frigate & galley in port. Ravenna razed for no gain.

    Triggers MPP with Egypt and they declare on me. Way to be a good friend! It should be a MSP – Mutual Suicide Pact.

    Battle for Hispalis (size 1 city on plains):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – flawless win.
    Raze Hispalis.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 e archer – flawless win.

    Battle for Abydos (size 1 city on plains):
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    Raze Abydos.

    2nd Battle of the New Bengal Sea:
    Artillery redlines Roman frigate & galley.
    4/4 Destroyer vs 1/4 frigate – flawless win.
    4/4 Destroyer vs 1/3 galley – flawless win.

    IBT – Egypt lands a spear/settler pair. Persia lands an immortal/settler pair.

    1770 AD – Destroyer meets Roman Frigate on the high seas.

    4/4 Destroyer vs 4/4 Frigate – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 e spear – win, -1hp.
    +2 slaves.
    5/5 Cav vs 2/2 barb – flawless win.
    Amphibious assault with the cav army, 12 cav (mixed vet/elite), 3 artillery, 1 settler, 4 infantry. Land next to Cumae (Size 12 city on grassland). Top defender is a 3/3 musket.

    Rush a destroyer.

    IBT – a roman warrior attacks my 14/14 cav army. That is interesting. Flawless defeat for the warrior.

    1772 AD – mass production due in 1t @ +560gpt.

    Battle for Cumae – Arty kills 2 citizens and bombs the harbor. City size 9, grassland). Top defender is now a 3/3 rifle.

    14/14 army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -4hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, redline.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -1hp.
    Raze Cumae. +4 slaves.

    Settler founds Hyderbad. Rush walls.

    Battle for Hyderbad plains:

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 warrior – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 pike – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 legion – flawless win.

    Just realized that you cannot ship chain in vanilla – there is no way to unload or wake transported units.

    IBT – an Egyptian cav make a run at my infantry – and is redlined. Roman and Egyptian ships swarm – 2 Roman frigates, 1 Roman galleon, 1 Egyptian frigate, 1 Egyptian galleon. Spot another Egyptian frigate/galleon pair by the mainland and a few single Roman/Egyptian frigates incoming towards the mainland.

    Egypt lands a sword, 2 war chariots and a cav by ship. Another invasion of 2 spears and 2 warriors (one warrior is 2/2) by land. Rome advances 2 legionaries.

    1774 AD – use around 1000gp to rush some infrastructure builds. Set a city on the west coast for a transport, another for a destroyer. Mass Production comes in, Motors due in 4t @ +577gpt after pumping Bombay to size 17 with spare workers.

    Drop off more units in Hyderabad.

    Just realized in Vanilla you can’t right click on the unit in the city view and receive the unit stats. That sucks. Also, the palace is only 400 shields. Period. Armies are also 400 shields. That sucks for pre-builds.

    Use artillery in Hyderabad to ping all the ships. The land units won’t be a problem.

    Navy engagement in the Sea of New Bengal:
    4/4 destroyer vs 2/4 e frigate – flawless win.
    4/4 ironclad vs 2/4 e galleon – win, -1hp. Put into port to heal.
    4/4 destroyer vs 2/4 Roman frigate – win, -1hp. Put into port to heal.

    Battle for Hyderabad Fields:

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 e sword – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 e cav – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 e chariot – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 e chariot – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 warrior – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 legion – win, -2hp, promote.
    Remaining invaders are 1 legion (4/4) and 1 warrior (2/2)

    Disperse a barb camp for 25gp.
    Disband a captured Roman worker at Hyderabad and rush barracks for 152gp.
    Demand wines from Persia. They refuse.

    IBT – Egypt & Rome pillage tiles. Whatever. Egypt attacks with 2 war chariots and 1 cav – all are redlined and tuned back by infantry behind walls.

    1776 – Can’t go to city view when the domestic advisor wants to change a build.

    Barracks build in Hyderabad. Set to harbor. Transport drops off 2 infantry and 3 cav.

    Battle for the fields of Hyderabad:
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 cav – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 warrior – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 war chariot – flawless win.
    4/5 cav vs 1/4 war chariot – flawless win – produce GL.
    Use GL to produce an army, load with Cav.
    8/8 cav army vs 3/4 legion – win, -1hp. Join 3rd cav (4/5 that produced leader). Army now 11/13.
    4/4 cav vs 1/4 e war chariot – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 e spear – flawless win, promote.
    There are now 8 infantry build up in Hyderabad.

    Advance 4/4 cav vs Veli to scout – size 11 city on grassland – top defender is a 3/3 rifle.
    Move artillery under army cover to bombard Veli. Redline a 1/3 rifle and 1/2 rifle, top defender is a 2/2 rifle.

    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 1/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win.
    Raze Veli. +5 slaves.
    That really helps with the cultural pressure.

    Disband a Roman slaves and rush harbor for 312gp.
    Move 11/13 army to cover exposed cavs that destroyed Veli.

    Use artillery to bomb incoming Egyptian frigate near Delhi. 4/4 ironclad vs 1/4 frigate. Flawless win.
    Use artillery to bomb incoming Egyptian frigate in the Sea of New Bengal. 4/4 destroyer vs 1/4 frigate – flawless win, promote.
    Use artillery to ping 2 frigate near Besancon. With no navy in the area, rush a destroyer for 464gp.

    Rome has 5 cities remaining.

    IBT – some movement, nothing much.

    1778 AD – MT in 2t @ +602gpt.

    Artillery pings Roman frigate/galley pair. Rushed 4/4 destroyer from Besancon vs 2/2 galley – flawless win.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Harbor builds, connect spices to trade network – 6th luxury. Start temple. This will be one of only two bases on this island – the other will claim some ivory.
    Artillery redline an incoming rifle. Ping a frigate.
    4/4 destroyer vs 4/4 r galleon – win, -2hp. Return to port for repairs.
    4/4 ironclad vs 2/4 r frigate – win, -2hp. Return to port for repairs.
    Transport drops 3 slaves, 4 cav & 1 WE.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 e sword – win but redline.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 legion – flawless win.
    Slaves start to rail.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 cav – win, -1hp.

    Send 12/14 army to mountain overlooking Antium. Reveal lots of units – Rome has a spear, 2 warriors, settler, and pike incoming. Antium’s top defender is a 3/3 rifle. Egypt has a spear and musket incoming (both 3/3). Stack 10 cav under army on mountain.


    IBT – A Roman warrior and legion attack my 12/14 cav army – apparently in Vanilla, armies are not untouchable. Rome founds Veil again to the SW of the original position.

    Persia settles on my land.

    1780 AD – Dial p Xerxes and demand wine. They refuse. DOW.

    Battle for Zohak:
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, redline.
    Raze Zohak.

    Battle for Dariush Kabir (size 1 city):
    Artillery softens up the city.
    4/4 cav vs 1/4 rifle – flawless win.
    Raze Dariush Kabir. No silk for Persia.

    Battle for Ghulaman (size 1 city):
    Artillery soften up the city.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 immortal – flawless win.
    Raze Ghulaman.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Build a fortress for my infantry fortified on spices.
    Artillery hits ships that are swarming. Multiple frigates and galleon in the area.
    4/4 destroyer vs 1/4 e frigate – flawless win.
    4/4 ironclad vs 1/3 e galley – flawless win.
    5/5 destroyer vs 2/4 e frigate – win, -1hp.
    Rush temple for 116gp.
    Transport lands 4 cav, 2 WE, 2 slaves.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – flawless win – GL.
    Use GL to construct an army. Fill with cav. 12/12 army.

    Battle for Antium (size 11 city on grassland, top defender is 4/4 rifle):

    4/4 cav vs 4/4 rifle – retreat, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – lose, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – lose, -1hp, promotes.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 rifle – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 cav – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win.
    Raze Antium. +5 slaves.

    Rome still has 5 cities, only 4 that really count.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    5/5 WE vs 4/4 warrior – win, but redline. What?

    IBT – some bombardments, lot of ship movements. Rome lands a pike/legion pair near Hyderabad. Egypt lands a spear/settler pair on the mainland. Geez, you’d think they’d give up by now! Persia is beginning to rail.

    1782 AD - Hoover Dam finally builds in Grenoble. Just realized that in Vanilla, you cycle through your city builds before you get the researched tech report. MT comes in, set for flight due in 4t @ +265gpt.

    Swap unit builds to tanks.

    Artillery redlines spear/settler pair.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 spear – win, -1hp. +2 slaves.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Temple builds, set t wealth.
    Artillery tries to bomb ships; artillery bombs pike/legion pair.
    5/5 destroyer vs 1/4 r frigate – win, redline. Return to port for repairs.
    4/4 ironclad vs 1/3 r galleon – win, -1hp. Click wrong and ironclad circles port and is stuck outside.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 pike – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/3 legion – win, -2hp.
    Send 12/12 cav army after Veli – 3/3 spear – win, -1hp. Raze Veli.
    Send 10/14 cav army & 8 cav after Byblos – size 6 city on grass, top defender is a 3/3 musket.

    Naval engagement near Delhi –
    4/4 destroyer vs 4/4 e frigate- flawless win, promote.
    Note that Rome has Communism now. Really? I’m almost done with the IA.

    Building army due in 4t, Pentagon due in 11t. Battlefield Medicine due in 5t.

    Hurry a transport/destroyer pair on the west coast to deal with Persian ships and to invade Egyptian island.

    IBT – Egyptian frigate goes after ironclad in the open, loses, ironclad promotes. Lot of bombardment on the west coast. Rome begs for peace and will give me almost anything – communism, 153gp & 60gpt and a MPP. I accept. The MPP will bring them in against Egypt and then Egypt can wipe them out while I destroy Persia.

    1784 AD - Well, heck. I Just give Rome Electricity for an alliance against Egypt. Lots of tanks build.

    Newly created destroyer from Matsuyama sink a Persian frigate that artillery redlined. 4/4 destroyer vs 1/4 p frigate – flawless win, promote.

    Naval engagement near Delhi –
    5/5 destroyer vs 3/3 galley – flawless win.

    Hyderabad warfront report:

    Battle for Byblos – top defender is still a 3/3 musket.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – flawless win, promote.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    Raze Byblos. +3 slaves.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 war chariot – flawless win, +2 slaves fromsettler.

    Send cavs around the corner of Rome to strike at Egypt.

    IBT – MPP turns Rome against Persia. Gotta love that. Roe loses a frigate to an Egyptian frigate.

    1786 AD – tanks build as well as my first battleship.

    Naval Engagement in the Sea of New Bengal:
    4/4 destroyer vs 1/4 e frigate – flawless win.

    Naval Engagement near Matsuyama:
    5/5 destroyer vs 1/4 p frigate – win, -2hp.
    Both frigates that were bombarding near Matsuyama are not gone.

    Land 2 tanks by Hieraconpolis. It is a size 2 city with a 3/3 spear on top. Spear vs. tank . . . hmmm.

    Naval engagement near Delhi:
    5/5 destroyer vs 3/3 galley – flawless win.
    4/4 ironclad vs 4/4 frigate – loss, -2hp.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    First tanks are landed.

    2 armies and 14 cav are preparing against Pi-Ramesses.

    Flight in 2t @ +435gp.

    IBT – zzz

    1788 AD – Naval battle near Delhi – 4/4 destroyer vs p 3/3 galleon – win, -1hp.
    5/5 destroyer vs 3/3 galley – flawless win.
    Battleship is on station.

    Battle for Hieraconpolis (size 2 city on hills, top defender is a 3/3 spear):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    Raze Hieraconpolis. +1 slave, capture 1 worker.
    Start fortress for tanks that will be permanently placed on island to discourage future settlers.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Land 5 tanks near El-Amarna, size 6 city on a hill with a 3/3 spear on top.

    Battle for Pi-Ramesses (size 6 city on plains, top defender is 3/3 rifle):
    12/12 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -4hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win, promote.
    Raze Pi-Ramesses. +3 slaves.

    Split cav to go for Giza and to harass Memphis.

    IBT – more Persian warships appear in the west. Set some cities to making warships. Lose 1 cav to Egyptian war chariots. Kill a chariot and promote to elite on another battle. Egypt and Rome are fighting it out.


    Decided that when this is done I am going to make a list of the difference between Vanilla and PTW. They are almost different games! I'm almost afraid to play C3C when the disk arrives!
     
  8. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    In 1808 India puts an end to Egyptian arrogance. India had always dealt fairly with Egypt until receiving their declaration of war in 1645 AD in defense of Persia, the aggressor in the Persian-Indian war that began in 1640 AD when Persian warriors were reported as crossing into Indian lands. Xerxes only made the weakest attempts to claim the probes were 'mistakes' and when India demanded a resolution, Persia declared.

    The most current engagement began in 1768 AD when India declared war on Rome. This decision did not come easy to India, for Rome had never declared war against Egypt. But Rome had entered into a military alliance with Egypt for protection and that sealed their fate. The Indian people also remembered the trade embargo that lasted 79 years when Rome sided with Egypt in 1685 AD.

    By 1808 AD Egypt is destroyed and Rome has been reduced to 1 mountainous city, held under guard by two Indian tank divisions.

    India also declared war on Persia in 1780 AD. In 1808 AD, all colonial settlements have been destroyed and Persia is pushed back to their island homeland. India is turning out invasion transports and warships to cover the invasion sea lanes. I have tried to convince units to move from one transport to another on the open seas but my military commanders refuse. They claim that we required a 'software upgrade' to perform this activity. Not for the first time I regret the decision to research computers.



    Log: 1790AD -1808AD
    Spoiler :
    1790 AD – Start loading transport for invasion of Persia. Naval escort will include destroyers and 2 battleships. That’s put an end to any thoughts of Persian supremacy of the sea.

    Egypt is wiling to give all they’ve got for peace – 109gp & 52gpt. Nah. I don’t really need money anymore. Radio is due in 4t @ +440gpt.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    City radius expands for added buffer.
    Move tanks into Roman territory to get to Egypt.

    Tanks advance on El-Amarna (size 6 city on hills, top defender is a 3/3 spear):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 spear – (hold breath) – win, -1hp. (Exhale) Sink a frigate in port. Raze the city for +3 slaves. Slaves start building a fortress for tanks to camp in until it is time to kill Rome.

    Cav approach Giza (size 1 city with ivory on desert, top defender is a 3/3 rifle – looks like Roman legions have been attacking it):

    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – cat takes off 1hp, retreat, -1hp to rifle.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 musket – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 musket – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 chariot – win, -1hp.
    Giza is now Indian, but is imbedded in Rome’s territory. Likely flip to Rome. Disband a slave and rush a temple for 112gp. Probably won’t do much good. Also capture a catapult. Roman roads to bring Ivory to my cities though. 7th native luxury.
    5/5 cav vs 1/4 chariot in the open – flawless win.

    Retreat cavs from Memphis. Will wait for tanks to press the attack. Egypt has 5 cities remaining.

    Rush some projects including another transport for the Persian front.

    IBT – Rome breaks out the big talk about my units in his lands. I agree to move. It actually sends my tanks to the other side for free. Thanks!

    1792 AD – Battlefield Medicine builds.

    Land 12/12 tank army, 1 cav, 1 WE, & 2 infantry on first Persian Island in the Island chain. Land next to Hamadan, size 6 city on grassland, top defender is 3/3 rifle, city is rioting. Not good news for Persia. Everyone is still a Democracy.

    Take a head count: 6 settlers, 33 workers, 65 Cav, 51 infantry, 17 tanks, 1 catapult, 17 artillery, 4 armies (3 cav, 1 tank), 6 WE. Navy = 3 ironclad, 8 transports, 7 destroyers, 2 battleships.

    Use some gold to rush a few projects.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Temple builds at Giza.
    Send 3 tanks, 4 cav to attack Elephantine (size 8 city on desert).

    IBT – 3/3 immortal attacks 12/12 tank army. Give that guy a metal. Post-humanous, of course. Egypt wants to talk. She offers me peace for peace. How generous of her. Let’s see, which one of us has 3 tanks approaching a major enemy city? Let me check my reports . . . ah, forget it. I just decline. When I turn the tables on her, she offers 120gp & 69gpt. Well that IS nice. But no thanks.

    Rome tells me to get out again. Right. Just leaving. Rome moves a settler towards an empty area that I do not want them settling. They may find themselves on my bad side next round.

    1794 AD – Clean a lot of pollution, what a pain.

    Persian Battlefront:

    Battle for Hamadan (size 6 city, grassland, top defender 3/3 rifle):
    12/12 tank army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp, promote to 11/13.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    Raze Hamadan. +3 slaves.

    5/5 WE approaches Samaria – size 6 city on tundra, top defenders is a 3/3 spear. The city is rioting.

    Destroy scouts 2 tile island of Ergili – it has a 3/3 warrior as the top defender. Load 2 tanks in 2nd Persian Invasion Transport and send to Ergili.
    Naval engagement near Ergili – 4/4 battleship vs 3/4 frigate – win, -1hp.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Land 4 tanks and 2 infantry in Hyderabad.
    Send 14/14 cav army w/3 backup cav towards Memphis.

    Spread some gold around. Rome is being a pain in the butt.

    IBT – Rome settles Veli across MY railroad line.

    1796 AD – Demand Veli from Rome. Rome declines, of course. DOW on Rome for being stupid. I’m done with this twit.
    Battle for Veli (size 1 city on grassland):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Raze Veli.

    Roll tanks & cav against Pisae.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Battle for Elephantine (now size 6 on desert, top defender is 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – flawless win.
    3/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    3/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    Raze Elephantine. Sink a frigate & galleon pair in harbor. +3 slaves.

    Cav continue towards Memphis. Size 11 city on grassland. Top defender is 4/4 rifle.
    14/14 cav army vs 4/4 rifle – retreat, -1hp to Rifle!
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp. That was ridiculous.
    5/5 cav vs 3/4 rifle – retreat, -1hp to rifle.
    5/5 cav vs 2/4 rifle – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    Raze Memphis. Capture cannon. +5 slaves.

    Egypt has 3 cities remaining.

    13/13 cav army vs 3/3 legion – win, -2hp.

    Disperse barb camp.

    IBT – zzz

    1798 AD – enter the Modern Era. Start Computers, due in 4t @ +81gpt.

    Ergili has come up with a 3/3 rifle – what a waste of money.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 warrior – flawless win.
    Raze Ergili. +2 slaves. Start fortress for tank garrison on island.



    Persian front – land 2 tanks next to Ergili.

    Battle for Samaria (size 6 city on tundra, top defender 3/3 spear):
    5/5 WE vs 3/3 spear – win, -1hp.
    Raze Samaria. +3 slaves.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Land 4 tanks and 2 infantry. Send 4 tanks and 4 cav (5/5s) towards Rome.

    Battle for Pisae (size 11 city on hill, top defender 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Raze Pisae. +5 slaves.

    Persia landed a rifle and 2 immortals (covering a settler) on small Egyptian island:
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 immortal – flawless win.

    5/5 cav vs 1/4 legion – flawless win.

    Units razing Egypt heal.

    IBT – Egypt loses a cav attacking a tank; Rome loses a legion attacking a cav. Persia settles a city right next to my five 4/4 tanks. Hmmm??? Then Egypt settles a city next to my cav stack with 2 armies. Not sure which one is dumber.

    1800 AD – Abandon Nagoya into a worker.

    Hyderabad warfront report:
    Move tank/cav force next to Rome, cross river. Can turn and attack Neapolis as well.

    Battle for Memphis (size 1 city on grassland)
    12/12 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2 hp.
    Raze Memphis.

    Battle for Samaria (size 1 city on hills)
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 immortal – flawless win.
    Raze Samaria.

    5/5 destroyer vs 1/4 frigate – flawless win.

    Land 12/13 tank army & 4 tanks.

    4/4 tank vs 5/5 legion – win, -2hp.

    Start SETI pre-build, though it is a late start – should have started 3 rounds ago. Pre-builds still suck.

    IBT – zzz

    1802 AD – Shuffle units – 3 battleships build, start on a round of transports. Transport creeps closer to last Persian island. Then it is on to the Persian mainland! Heliopolis is rioting. Poor Egyptians.

    Hyderabad warfront report:

    Battle for Rome (size 9 city on hills, top defender is a 4/4 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 3/4 rifle – flawless retreat. ???
    4/4 tank vs 3/4 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 pike – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, -3hp.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    5/5 cav vs 2/2 rifle – win, redline.
    Raze Rome. +4 slaves.

    Drop 5 tanks and 1 infantry.

    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win, +2 slaves fromsettler.

    Send tank army & 6 tanks towards Heliopolis.
    Send 4 more tanks towards Neapolis.

    5/5 cav vs 4/4 r pike – win, -2hp.

    IBT – zzzz

    1804 AD – Pentagon builds.

    Unload 3 tanks and 5 workers on Persian island. Sardis is guarded by a 3/3 spear.

    Battle for Neapolis (size 9 city on grassland, top defender is 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – lose my first tank, rifle -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – win, redlined.
    4/4 tank vs 1/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    Raze Neapolis. +4 slaves.

    Battle for Heliopolis (size 11 city on grassland, top defender is a 4/4 rifle):
    12/13 tank vs 4/4 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – win, -2hp.
    Raze Helioplis. Sink 2 ships (frigate & galleon?), capture a cannon. +5 slaves.

    See that Persia had landed a settler, 3/3 rifle, 4/4 cav, 4/4 immortal.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, redlined.
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 cav – flawless win.
    5/5 WE vs 4/4 immortal – win, -2 hp. +2 slaves from settler.

    Send Cav army & Cav to siege Thebes (size 12 city on hills, top defender 4/4 rifle). Rail line across island is now complete. Sending settler to make port city for Perisan invasion.

    IBT – AI shuffles units. Persian fleet shows up on the western coast again; an Ironclad stops short of my battleship, destroyer, transport convoy.

    1806 AD – Computers comes in, convert Infantry to mechs. Rockets due in 4t @ +226gpt.
    4/4 tank vs e 2/2 rifle (near Giza) – flawless win.

    Unload 7 tanks, 1 infantry and 1 settler.

    Battle for Sardis (size 5 city on tundra, top defender is 3/3 spear):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    Raze Sardis. +2 slaves.

    Build Punjab for Persian Invasion.

    4/4 battleship vs 1/4 p ironclad – flawless win.

    10/13 tank vs 4/4 e LB, flawless win.

    Battle for Thebes (size 11 city on hill):
    11/12 Cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -9hp.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 cav vs 2/2 rifle – loss, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 1/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Thebes has the Oracle. It is very pretty. When it burns. Raze Thebes. +5 slaves. Capture two cannons.

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 e rifle in the open – win but redline.

    Battle for Alexandria begins (size 11 city on grassland, top defender is 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    3/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Move many units towards Alexandria.

    Disperse 2 Barb camps.

    IBT – zzz

    1808 AD – artillery pings an Egyptian frigate by Punjab. 5/5 destroyer vs 1/4 frigate – flawless win.

    4/4 battleship vs 4/4 Persian Ironclad – flawless in, promote.

    Final Stand of Egypt – Battle for Alexandria – size 10 city on grassland. 3/3 Rifle on top.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 Rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    Alexandria has the Colossus. Raze the city. +7 slaves, 1 cannon. Egypt is destroyed.
     
  9. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    This was the state of the world in 280AD when India elected Raliuven as their warlord.



    India vanquished Persia and Rome in 1824 AD, destroying first Persia:



    and then Rome:



    Conquest Victory was declared in 1826 AD and all India rejoiced. After a near continuous war over a period fo 1546 years, India proved to be the dominant civilization of the world.



    Joan sums up India's win the best:



    1826 AD: Conquest Victory. History will remember me as Gandhi the Terrible. Final Score 1472.

    Picked up game in 280AD – turn 143.
    End Game in 1826AD – turn 378.
    Turns played: 235


    And finally the log of 1808AD-1826AD including an interesting picture of Persian wine country:

    Spoiler :
    Pick up in 1808 AD – rush a destroyer for 420gp.

    IBT – Rome captures a stack of workers and sends them running back to Pompeii. Persia bombards a handful of tiles to be annoying.

    1810 AD – rush 2 battleships on the west coast for 320gp and 216gp.

    The invasion of the Persian island begins. Drop a 12/12 tank army, 1 mech infantry and 2 tanks on the eastern coast of Persia next to Gordium. Battleship bombards Gordium and kills 1 citizen. Gordium is protected by a 3/3 musket.

    5/5 destroyer encounters a 4/4 Persian ironclad by Pompeii – flawless win.
    5/5 battleship vs 4/4 Persian ironclad by Pompeii – flawless win. After naval victory, further movement reveals another Persian Ironclad protecting a galleon and a frigate.
    5/5 destroyer vs 4/4 Persian frigate - win, -1hp, head back to port for repairs.

    4/4 tank vs 3/4 Roman archer – flawless win.
    5/5 WE recaptures wayward workers.

    IBT – Persia lands 2 rifles and 2 immortals next to Pompeii. Looks like the end of the line for Rome. Horseman (!) attacks 12/12 tank army. Loses. -1hp.

    1812 AD – research labs start to produce. Send second invasion force on Persia’s west coast – land a 13/13 cav army, 1 mech, 1 combat settler, 9 tanks. Messed up and landed 1 tank on the wrong tile. Land next to Tarsus – size 15 city on plains w/aluminum – top defender is a 3/3 rifle.

    Rocketry due in 1t @ +355gpt.

    Send western battleships out to destroy pillaging Persian frigates:
    4/4 battleship vs 4/4 frigate – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 battleship vs 4/4 frigate – win, -1hp.

    Eastern battlefront:

    Battle for Gordium (size 5 city on tundra, top defender is still 3/3 musket):
    11/12 tank vs 3/3 musket – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 spear – flawless win.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 archer – flawless win.
    Raze Gordium. +3 slaves.

    Settle Eastern Front as staging city for eastern invasion route. There’s not even much cultural pressure here. Set for barracks, disband slave, rush for 152gp.

    Naval engagements near Pompeii:
    4/4 battleship vs 4/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.

    Rush a transport on the western front.

    IBT – horseman attacks mech defending Eastern Front. Flawlessly loses. Barb attacks mech and flawlessly loses. There is no challenge to the western invasion. Persia drops another rifle and immortal next to Pompeii. Immortals kill to Roman spears, top defender is now a 3/3 archer. Cowardly Persian frigates that were pillaging my west coast try to damage my battleships at range with bombardment. When they fail, they run for home.

    1814 AD – Learn rocketry, set to Ecology due in 4t @ +334gpt.

    West coast naval engagements:
    5/5 battleship vs 4/4 frigate – flawless win.
    3/4 battleship vs 4/4 frigate – flawless win.
    Cowardly frigates are gone.

    Western Battlefront:

    Battle for Tarsus (size 15 city on plains, top defender 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    5/5 tank vs 4/4 LB – flawless win.
    Tarsus has Shakespeare’s Theater. Raze the city. +7 slaves.
    Found Western Front. Set to barracks, disband slave, rush for 152gp.

    Persia is already railed – that will save a lot of time. Send 13/13 cav army out to pillage rubber. Persia still does not have RP and I don’t want them to have rubber when/if they do.

    Send 4 tanks towards Arbela.

    Naval engagements near Pompeii:
    5/5 destroyer vs 4/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.
    3/4 battleship vs 4/4 frigate – win, -1hp, promote.
    4/4 battleship vs 4/4 galleon – flawless win, promote.
    1 galleon left.

    Eastern Battlefront: Send 11/12 tank army towards Bactra.

    IBT – Persia and Rome have signed a peace deal. Guess I’ll have to do the dirty work. 3 immortals suicide against my tanks. Persia sends a 4/4 LB after Eastern Front, but it can’t reach this round – and get’s pinged by the 11/12 army it walks past.

    1816 AD – send 5/5 cav out to kill barbs.

    Naval engagement near Pompeii:
    3/5 battleship vs 3/3 galleon – flawless win.

    Western Battlefront: Barracks builds, set to harbor. Disband slave and rush for 312gp.

    Hmm – armies can’t pillage? Grr.
    Unload a 17/17 tank army, 6 tank, 3 cav, 2 mechs.
    Send out Cav covered by army to pillage rubber.

    Battle for Arbela (size 11 city on grass, top defender 4/4 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 rifle – win, -2hp, promote.
    4/4 tank vs 3/4 rifle – win, -2hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    Top defenders is a 4/4 LB.

    Send more 3 tanks & 1 mech towards Arbela.
    Send 17/17 tank army & 5 tanks towards Pasargadae.
    Reinforcements due to land next round: 1 mech, 11 tanks, 2 cav armies, 1 cav, 1 artillery, 1 slave.

    Eastern Front – rush walls for 76gp. Send reinforcements – 3 mechs, 2 cav, 3 artillery.

    4/4 tank vs 3/4 LB – flawless win.
    11/12 tank army moves next to Bactra, pushing through dense tundra forests. Size 6 city, top defender is a 3/3 rifle.

    IBT – Persia finally responds to Eastern Front – send 4 LB.

    1818 AD – many research labs finish. Restart war production.

    Western Battlefront – reinforcements land. Disband slave, rush walls for 72gp.

    Battle for Arbela (size 10 city on grassland):
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – win, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 4/4 LB – flawless win.
    Great Lighthouse is in Arbela. Raze the city. +5 slaves.

    Send Cavs towards 2nd source of rubber. Tanks advance on Pasargadae.
    Send out newly landed reinforcements in a shotgun pattern.

    Eastern Battlefront: Reinforcements land.
    New reinforcements sent – 5 tanks, 1 cav, 2 mechs.
    11/12 tank army vs 3/3 rifle – flawless win.

    Battle for Eastern Front: Reinforcements land. Disband slave, rush harbor for 312gp.
    Newly arrived artillery shells incoming LB.
    4/4 cav vs 3/4 LB – win, -1hp.
    4/4 cav vs 2/4 LB – flawless win.
    4/4 mech vs 2/4 LB – flawless win.
    4/4 mech vs 2/4 LB – flawless win, promote.

    Send two 4/4 tanks out to help tank army.

    Persia is down to 6 cities.

    IBT – Persian ironclad tries to pillage tile by Eastern Front. 3 LB arrive at Western Front.

    1820 AD – Disperse barb camp.

    Western Battlefront: Send reinforcements (2 tanks, 6 artillery, 6 cavs, 1 WE, 1mech)

    Battle for Pasargadae (size 20 city on plains, top defender 4/4 rifle):
    17/17 tank army vs 4/4 rifle – win, -7hp. Hmm.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/3 rifle – win, -1hp, promote.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – flawless win.
    5/5 tank vs 4/4 LB – flawless win.
    Raze Pasargadae. Capture cannon. +10 slaves.

    Reveal wine country:


    Forgot to send a settler for wines. Add 2 slaves for western front, set to settler, disband slave, rush settler for 112gp. It will be a foreign settler but at least I won’t have to calm 20 angry Persian citizens.

    Cavs pillage rubber. No more rubber for Persia!
    Send wounded units back to Western Front for healing via rails. Thanks Xerxes!
    Send 11 tanks & 1 mech after Persepolis. Cavs & cav armies are headed towards coal to pillage. I have harbors so I don’t need native coal.
    Send 8 tanks, 1 cav and 2 cav armies after Antioch.

    Battle for the fields of Western Front:
    4/4 mech vs 3/4 LB – flawless win, promote.
    4/4 mech vs 3/4 LB – flawless win.

    Eastern Battlefront:
    Send artillery to ping pillaging Ironclad: redline it. Send 4/4 battleship from escort duty vs 1/4 ironclad – flawless win & back to escort duty.
    Land reinforcements – 2 mech, 5 tank, 1 cav.

    Battle for Bactra (size 6 city on tundra):
    11/12 tank army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp.
    Raze Bactra. +3 slaves.

    Send 3 mechs and 6 tanks & tank army towards Susa.

    Persia has 3 cities remaining.

    IBT – Xerxes would like peace. He will give me 223gp, 3gpt & Susa for peace and Steel. That’s one less city I need to take. I accept.

    1822 AD – DOW on Persia again. Because Susa was given, all citizens are now Indian and are happily toiling away. Rush settler, city is starving anyway.

    Need to learn recycling to get to SF. Due in 4t @ -152gpt. Finally something I can’t research in 4t at a profit!

    Pillaging cav disconnect coal. Oddly, rushed settler has ‘barbarian’ status, not Persian. Put him on grapes and found city to capture 8th native luxury. When the city founds, it is an Indian citizen.

    Open field battle:
    4/4 tanks vs 4/4 rifle – win, -1hp.
    5/5 cav vs 4/4 LB – win, -2hp.
    13/13 cav army vs 4/4 rifle – win, -5hp.
    4/4 cav vs 4/4 LB – flawless win.

    Battle for Persepolis (size 14 city on grass, top defender 3/3 rifle):
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – flawless retreat after being hit by cannon.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, redline after cannon misses.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, -1hp after hit by cannon.
    4/4 tank vs 3/3 rifle – win, redline.
    Persepolis has the pyramids. Raze the city. +7 slaves. +3 cannons.

    Decide to press the attack on Antioch with cavs. Tanks will arrive next round.

    Battle for Antioch (size 16 city on grass):
    17/17 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – lose, redline rifle, -1hp, promotes.
    14/14 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -10hp.
    2/4 rifle on top.

    Send 2 cav to back up tanks by Pompeii.

    IBT – cannon in Antioch hits battleship for -1hp.

    1824 AD – Many cities got into WLTKD due to 8th luxury.

    Histograph: India: 1016, China: 545, Persia: 426, Egypt: 411, Japan: 344, Rome: 279, France: 212, Germany: 198.

    Battle for Antioch (size 15 city on grassland):

    4/4 tank vs 3/4 rifle – retreat, -1hp.
    4/4 tank vs 2/4 rifle – flawless retreat.
    4/4 tank vs 2/4 rifle – win, redline.
    4/4 tank vs 2/2 rifle – win, redline.
    Raze Antioch. Capture cannon. +7 slaves.
    Persia Destroyed.

    Battle for Pompeii (size 2 city on hills):
    5/5 tank vs 2/3 LB – flawless win.
    Raze city, +1 slave.

    Rome managed to sneak in another city.
    Battle for Rome (size 1 city on grassland):
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 rifle – flawless win.
    4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp.
    5/5 cav vs 3/3 LB – flawless win.
    Raze Rome. +3 slaves.
    Rome Destroyed.

    Disperse Barb Camp with mech.

    1826 AD: Conquest Victory. History will remember me as Gandhi the Terrible. Final Score 1472.

     
  10. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    I like that picture of you destroying the Egyptians - if you don't look too closely, it looks like you have some kind of cyborg Worker with a Tank body in place of legs.
     
  11. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    I think that was an upgrade allowed by replaceable parts. :lol:
     
  12. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Difference between Vanilla & PTW
    • Can make multiple palace builds.
    • Palace & Armies only cost 400 shields (not very good pre-builds)
    • Swords & Archers don’t upgrade.
    • When the advisor suggests that you change a build, you can’t go to the city view to evaluate.
    • Science research is resolved after all city builds are completed.
    • In the city view, can’t right click on a unit to see stats and shield costs (Civopedia entry).
    • Armies can’t pillage.
    • Can’t ship chain– couldn’t find a way to wake up units at sea to transfer them.
    • Resources and luxuries have tight grouping.
    • Workers are not disbanded when captured by the AI. Usually the AI will disband if the workers can’t be evacuated; they tend to disband non-native units while trying to save native workers when possible. Not in Vanilla. All workers are saved, even if there is no hope of evacuating them from the battlefield.
    • Razed cities always produce slaves equal to 50% of the citizens, round down. This is much higher than PTW and PTW is not reliable.
    • Can capture all cities, no auto-raze.
    • Can’t abandon cities at will – need to ‘produce’ them out of existence, disbanding into workers or settlers.
    • When ToE builds, can’t pick techs that are learned – they automatically backfill the tech tree. ToE is practically worthless.
    • When a new tech allows a better unit to be built, cities already set to build outdated units remain as set. For example, cities set to build musket remain as muskets even when infantry becomes available.
    • Slave workers and settlers become ‘barbarians’ after their civ is destroyed, or shortly thereafter. Not sure what determines this. When a barbarian settler founds a city, the citizen is of the native civ.
    • The AI will attack armies in the open, even on suicide runs.

    Observations:

    Cavalry retreats seemed to be 100% if not fighting a redlined unit. When I started in 1420AD, no failed cav attack against a non-redlined unit resulted in a loss of the cav. I noticed this earlier with horsemen and then thought it had changed for War Elephants. But now I am convinced the retreat rate is 100% (or nearly so). Not sure if War Elephants were different because they are a UU?

    Research was 4 turns on almost everything well into the Modern Age. Most of the time I was at 40-50% research for 4 turns as a republic/democratic government.

    RNG was brutal, worse than I’m accustomed to.

    AI was very erratic – it would often DOW after begging for peace.
     
  13. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    The differences that you are seeing, at least most of them, aren't differences between Vanilla and PTW. They are differences between early releases of C3 on one hand, and later releases C3 and PTW on the other hand.

    Chances are that in your version you can also go and plant forest over terrain improvements in foreign territory and that you receive more shields from pop-rushing.


    ETA: And some of what you point out simply does not sound quite right:
    The cost of the Palace depends on the size of your empire. Armies cost 400 shields in any version and expansion.

    I would be very surprised if that were true.
     
  14. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Can't say there - the Version that this was played on is Vanilla 1.07. Maybe that accounts for some of the differences.

    Didn't test this, so I don't know. However, one thing that was annoying is that immediately after razing an enemy city I often could not rail my way through the territory, sometimes for several turns. Very annoying.

    Hmm, for some reason I thought armies cost more. You are correct, of course. However, regarding the palace, I did check. It is 400 shields. I realized the problem when I started a prebuild for Hoovers. I wasn't paying attention to the shield count and switched the palace with only a few turns left over as a prebuild - and suddenly Hoovers required 19 more turns to build.

    Here is 520AD when I have 7 cities. The palace build is 400 shields. 8spt@50 turns.



    Here is 1824 when I have 70+ cities. The palace build is 400 shields.


    Either that is one tough sliding scale or the palace build is always 400 shields.

    RE: research after city builds - well, there's really no screen print I can provide that would prove this point. I came across this when I was expecting Motors to come in and when the cities started to cycle I started looking for tanks in the building queue. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't build them, I had the resources. After the cities cycled, the tech arrived and I had to go back and switch all the cities over to tanks after the fact. It didn't even dawn on me until then that it was out of sequence.
     
  15. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    It accounts for nearly all them. I have played a lot of Vanilla 1.29f.

    And I just recall a few more. In the early release you couldn't upgrade to your UU. I remember one game where I wanted to be extra-clever and build a whole number of warriors with the intention of upgrading to Immortals. "Thinking themselves wise ... ", IOW it did not work. I could build Immortals, but I couldn't upgrade and so was left with dozens of warriors; remember, they normally upgrade to Swords, which in turn upgrade nowhere. No swords, no upgrade to the sword-replacement, that's it.

    And if I am not mistaken armies could not blitz at all in earlier releases. This is hearsay, though.

    OK, ok, I am convinced already. :lol: Just chalk it up as a difference.

    Looks like another diffenrence too. I just thought that would be too much, but then again ...
     
  16. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Hey, I'm just glad that it make sense to someone. :crazyeye:

    According to my Vanilla 1.07 Hall of Fame, it looks like I played about a dozen games, most at chieften or warlord. I guess when I went to PTW I accepted all of the changes without question. Probably because I didn't know what I was doing (which is a nice slight-of-hand to suggest I DO know what I am doing now :mischief:). Going back was a real shock - I just didn't remember SO many changes.

    Your comment about upgrading UU also makes sense - at one point in the log I upgraded 9 horses to cavalry. Though I don't remember it, I must not have been able to upgrade them to WE and the first available upgrade was Cav.

    What a weird game. But it did make for an interesting play!
     

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