A parade of cattle. How would you like your steak?
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Nice, must be the Santa Fe trail. A beautiful HoF starting spot if I ever saw one. Please don't play that as an OCC, you'd lose 2 of the 5 without another city. However, that would be a nice OCC area, food and shields galore.
timerover51
Deity
Plus you have gems and gold as well for commerce. That is what I call one fantastic starting location. And thanks much for posting the world seed, so that it can be duplicated. I have discovered that setting the same world seed and other requirements allows you to duplicate the maps on other computers. Nice.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Timerover, you'll need the exact parameters to duplicate that start. You need to know all opponents and all the land stats such as landform, age, climate, temperature, etc. Easier would be to have Mathias post the save.
timerover51
Deity
No this is quite interesting. Putting the parameters that were given, world seed, landform, water percentage, etc., into the editor, it looks like it duplicates the terrain, the starting locations, and some of the resource placement. On the map in the editor, instead of the line of cattle, I get two wheat. If barbarians are in the parameters, I have a goody hut just to the northeast of the starting location, that probably would trigger immediately. The addition of barbarians does not appear to change the resources or starting locations at all. I do have the gems and the gold, located in the same tiles as on the thumbnail. By the way, it is a nice Pangaea, nice spread of strategic resources, but a fair amount of marsh.
I do have one starting location, although it does not have a cattle drive, the location does have 4 cattle and 1 wheat in the fat cross layout, and is located on a river, with forest included as well. Another starting location is on top of an elephant, with a circus parade of elephants included in the city square. That one is also on a river. Mathematics and Statue of Zeus, here I come. I think that I will save this map for a solitaire Space Race game that I was planning. I am including this information, as it appears that although the terrain is the same, the difference in resource locations is such that it would not give Mathais any additional advantage.
Mathais, as a matter of experiment, could you give the barbarian setting, your starting civilization, and the other two civilizations in the game? As you indicated that they were Seafaring, I assume that you preset them on start up. Also, do you have it set for culturally linked starting locations? I would like to see if I can duplicate your map in the editor.
I do have one starting location, although it does not have a cattle drive, the location does have 4 cattle and 1 wheat in the fat cross layout, and is located on a river, with forest included as well. Another starting location is on top of an elephant, with a circus parade of elephants included in the city square. That one is also on a river. Mathematics and Statue of Zeus, here I come. I think that I will save this map for a solitaire Space Race game that I was planning. I am including this information, as it appears that although the terrain is the same, the difference in resource locations is such that it would not give Mathais any additional advantage.
Mathais, as a matter of experiment, could you give the barbarian setting, your starting civilization, and the other two civilizations in the game? As you indicated that they were Seafaring, I assume that you preset them on start up. Also, do you have it set for culturally linked starting locations? I would like to see if I can duplicate your map in the editor.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Ooh, steak party!
(glad it's not time of Lent
)
(glad it's not time of Lent
)
darski
Regent in Training
I have never played a "seed" map. Does this mean that I can set my own level? Can I play this at Warlord or (possibly) Regent?
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I thought it was necessary to have the seafaring civs in the same relative slots to avoid changing the starting locations.
Darski, in the startup screen you should see a box to enter the World Seed (set at zero by default, for random). If you enter the seed number and keep the parameters the same, you should get the same map.
Darski, in the startup screen you should see a box to enter the World Seed (set at zero by default, for random). If you enter the seed number and keep the parameters the same, you should get the same map.
timerover51
Deity
I ran a test last night of putting the seed into the starting map parameters, and got the same starting position and resource layout, when I put the Americans in as the my civilization. If you use all of the same parameters, it appears that you WILL get the same map, and very likely the same starting position if you are a non-Seafaring civilization. When I plugged in the Byzantines, my starting position was in the lower center, right next to a freshwater lake, and on the coast.
The interesting thing is when I input the seed and other parameters into the editor, I get what appears to be the same terrain, but the starting positions appear to be displaced by one tile, and the resources are slightly different. At the starting location in the thumbnail, I get EXACTLY the same location for the gems and the gold, but instead of cattle, I get two wheat. This occurs even when I set the scenario properties to 6 landbased and 2 Seafaring civilizations. Changing the barbarian setting does not influence the map at all.
Therefore, it would appear that the random map generator that appears at the start of the game has a slightly different setting for resource generation than the editor, but uses the same terrain generator. So, if you input the same seed into the map generator and the editor, you get the same terrain, but fractionally different starting locations, but most importantly, different resource location. This would act to prevent a player from settng a starting seed in the game map generator, and then getting the same game layout from the editor to use to plan the game. A very nice piece of programming.
By the way, this is a nice map, not a bad starting location on it. I am seriously tempted to playing the game map and running a comparison to the editor map on how closely the resource locations compare. May do that and report back as to the matchup.
The interesting thing is when I input the seed and other parameters into the editor, I get what appears to be the same terrain, but the starting positions appear to be displaced by one tile, and the resources are slightly different. At the starting location in the thumbnail, I get EXACTLY the same location for the gems and the gold, but instead of cattle, I get two wheat. This occurs even when I set the scenario properties to 6 landbased and 2 Seafaring civilizations. Changing the barbarian setting does not influence the map at all.
Therefore, it would appear that the random map generator that appears at the start of the game has a slightly different setting for resource generation than the editor, but uses the same terrain generator. So, if you input the same seed into the map generator and the editor, you get the same terrain, but fractionally different starting locations, but most importantly, different resource location. This would act to prevent a player from settng a starting seed in the game map generator, and then getting the same game layout from the editor to use to plan the game. A very nice piece of programming.
By the way, this is a nice map, not a bad starting location on it. I am seriously tempted to playing the game map and running a comparison to the editor map on how closely the resource locations compare. May do that and report back as to the matchup.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I played some using that start, and yes, that would be a very powerful map for an OCC game. If there are any better starting spots than that, I've yet to see one.
timerover51
Deity
On the map that I generated in the editor using that seed, I got a circus parade of elephants at one of the starting location. Looked at that and thought that is an Indian players dream, War Elephants AND the Statue of Zeus with Ancient Cavalry. Another one of the locations on the generated map had 4 cattle and a wheat in the fat cross city coverage, plus forest nearby. Plant more forest for shields and you are in heaven. As I said, that map's starting positions are really good.
Only the number of seafaring civs is important. Even that doesn't have to be exact. With this seed and same parameters, you'll get that start with anywhere from one to four seafaring rivals. As such, choosing 'All Random' will put you there more often than not.
As if it the terrain wasn't good enough, that conscript warrior headed NW and found a second goody hut. Alesia was founded in 3800 BC.
timerover51
Deity
Mathias, it looks like the goody hut location on both the game map and the editor map is the same as well.
What level of difficulty game again? 3800 B.C. usually seems the time the AI founds its second city. With that sort of start you might actually have more territory than (almost) all of the Deity or Demi-God AIs if you played at that level.
Overseer,
For an OCC space or diplomatic game I'd actually prefer to have less food, but a more coastal start. For a 20k game I'd miss 3 cpt early on and 6 cpt later on that I basically always have in my 20k games. Actually... I don't think I've won a 20k game without my 20k city on the coast. Still, for a 20k game with that sort of start you probably wouldn't mind all that much. It seems like an interesting question actually... for an OCC 20k game do you want more food and production early on... or would you prefer to have less food but have a more coastal start?
For an OCC space or diplomatic game I'd actually prefer to have less food, but a more coastal start. For a 20k game I'd miss 3 cpt early on and 6 cpt later on that I basically always have in my 20k games. Actually... I don't think I've won a 20k game without my 20k city on the coast. Still, for a 20k game with that sort of start you probably wouldn't mind all that much. It seems like an interesting question actually... for an OCC 20k game do you want more food and production early on... or would you prefer to have less food but have a more coastal start?
You may have missed my point: 3800 BC is turn five, and Alesia is my second city. The AI can only build their second city that early when they start with an extra settler or, as I did, pop one from a hut.
For OCC 20K, it's all about production. Coastal locations producing more than 30 shields per turn are few and far between. You won't miss any culture by not building the Colossus, because you'll be building other wonders instead. This start might be tricky, though, because contacts won't come early and tech trading will be limited. I'd go for a Monarchy slingshot.
