A question about ancient europe

[The Everard]

I just finished the Rome UHV on monarch although I almost failed the third objective because I was fortifing my legions in alcase-lorriane and north africa preparing for the barbs - then my spanish cities were under attack. I was like WTH? Why do all the barbarians spawn in spain?!

But back on topic- while playing as rome I noticed I had to whip settlers and leigons non-stop - Leigonaries fine but SETTLERS? All of europe with the exeption of some gallic towns was copletely and utterly empty!

Why? Historically Rome conquered an empire and extremely few (Perhaps none) were founded by rome other than quite obviously rome, there should be some celtic cities in spain and they should spawn earlier in the british isles.
There should also be independants in macedonia and thrace maybe even be sparta (But I know sparta cant work but the others could).


My point is Rome should not be like china - alone as a beacon of civilization in an otherwise barbarian world.

The same also goes for germany and Japan.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Barbs don't spawn in RFC, they come historically.

Well, I think that Gaul villages are too small to be cities. It would be weird to see some small Gaul village to be huge production city nowadays.

 

[vidimce]

Yeah there should be some independents in the Balkan Area, Dacia and Macedonia, below that would be the Greeks. Also some independents in Spain and France and England. Maybe 1 or 2 cities in each area.

 

[The Everard]

Thats what I was complaining about - since when did the barbarian invasions begin in spain.

"Well, I think that Gaul villages are too small to be cities. It would be weird to see some small Gaul village to be huge production city nowadays."

The same could be said of ancient greece and they had a huge influence on western civilzation and remember history was written by the victors the gauls were considerably more advanced than popular belief. They had agriculture, organized religon, social classes, and advanced weapons and armour (Which is different from tactics) and an ancient and rich culture.

Romans for example during the punic wars made all sorts of horrible tales about the carthiginians, such as sacrificing their own children. Or today when europeans think all Arabs are religous fanatics who all support all al-quida - In fact their are as many fundementalist christians supporting the death penalty for all crimes or neo-nazi repuplicans supporting a berlin style wall across mexico.ect.ect.ect

Probally a way to long way of arguing for gallic cities but you get my point.

 

[The Everard]

Yes it would stop the greeks taking over russia occasionly or taking dacia.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

But how big were the biggest Gaul cities? Sure smaller than Greek.

 

[Rhye]

please name a few barbarian or celtic city that was more than a village at that time and that's still a known city nowadays


p.s. barbarians are spawning in spain probably because you colonized all of western europe except spain. They are placed outside your borders.

 

[kairob]

I am sure I have seen barbs emerge inside my borders on sevoral accasions, although it might have been on older versions...

 

[The Everard]

"please name a few barbarian or celtic city that was more than a village at that time and that's still a known city nowadays"

Ok what about these:
Noricum (Celtic,In the Alps)
Eburacum (Celtic,In scotland)
Dal raida (Celtic,Also in scotland)
Tingi (Numidian, in the atlas mountains)
Gallaecia (Celtic,In the pyrenees)
Damme (Celtic,In spain)
Apollonia (Macedonian, in Epirus)
Dimmidi (Numidian, near carthage)
Tara (In Ireland)
Siwa (Numidian, Near libya)
Alesia (Celtic, In alsace-lorriane)
Brest (Celtic, In Breton)
Syracuse (Greek colony, In Sicily or maybe greeks should start of with a galley so the AI would settle there, bringing conflict with Rome.)
Pella (Macedonian, In Greece)
Belgica (Celtic, In Belgium)
Dalmatia (Illyrian, In former Yugoslavia)
Pripet (Scythian/Barbarian, In Russia
Paionia (Celtic somewhere in spain)
Bordesholm (Germanic)
Samarobriva (Sarmatian/Barbarian, In ukraine)
Lovosice (Celtic, In gaul)

It would also be good to see carthage AI do a lot more settling in spain and greece more settling in southern italy before rome spawns. That would be fun to see Greece, Rome and Carthage all contesting for southern Italy and CArthage and Rome battling for spain. Because currently as rome I kill Carthage as soon as spawn and greece a few turns later leaving all of Europe to myself. The Celts are so easy right now that dont count, I just take 3 leigons into gaul and wait for their initally defencess cities to spawn - pretty soon after I,ve settled europe.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

some of those aren't cities but kingdoms/areas... like Noricum and Dalmatia- but yes they were barbarians with culture.

part of the "large city" problem is that many of the "barbarians" such as Germans and Celts did not centralize themselves into traditional city structures and were spread out across agricultural plots and homesteads, which then must be represented by a stronghold/trading center/city... which is to say that Rhyes does well

 

[davbenbak]

Perhaps the Celts should be added as a playable civ?

 

[kairob]

If the are more turns in the ancient era and they didnt survive to the modern day then yeah sure it'd get my vote ):

 

[The Q-Meister]

More turns in the ancient era (particularly the Greco-Roman era) would be wonderful!!

 

[davbenbak]

Ceasar's Gallic Wars were no walk in the park so it just seems to me that it is way to easy when I play Rome to conquer Western Europe and the British Ilses. I realize adding the Celts makes Europe a pretty crowded place but that didn't seem to be a problem when adding the Babylonians, Persians, Arabs and Turks all spawning pretty much on top of each other.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Agreed. I found that playing Rome and taking care of the Euro barbs was MUCH easier than playing as Persia and attempting to do the same.

Gaul falls to Rome almost immediately in the game I play (monarch level) BUT the I suspect the reason this is done is because the player is simply on a a very, very tight time frame to conquer a lot of land area in a short amount of game time. The solution would be (sound of broken record echoes ) more turns in the ancient era so to leave room for the big battles Rome faces in Gaul, Spain, Germany etc.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Agreed. I found playing as Rome and taking care of its barbs MUCH easier than playing as Persia and attempting to do the same.

Gaul falls to Rome almost immediately in the game I play (monarch level) BUT I suspect the reason this is done is because the player is simply on a a very, very tight time frame to conquer a lot of land area in a short amount of game time. The solution would be (sound of broken record echoes ) more turns in the ancient era so to leave room for the big battles Rome faces in Gaul, Spain, Germany etc.

 

[Corm]

So far Rome is one of the few Civs I have completed the Historical Victories with and when I did I allowed the Celts to found cities in France that I promptly walked Praetorians into as soon as they hit 2 pop. That way it was easy. I also founded Londinium early and demolished Carthage and Greece early.

If there were cities in the areas that The Everad suggests I think it would be too easy. I see the argument completely and do sort of tend to think its a good one from a historic point of view but ultimately its what works for the game that counts and the way it is now, I think works perfectly.

 

[Rhye]

"please name a few barbarian or celtic city that was more than a village at that time and that's still a known city nowadays"

Ok what about these:
Noricum (Celtic,In the Alps)
Eburacum (Celtic,In scotland)
Dal raida (Celtic,Also in scotland)
Tingi (Numidian, in the atlas mountains)
Gallaecia (Celtic,In the pyrenees)
Damme (Celtic,In spain)
Apollonia (Macedonian, in Epirus)
Dimmidi (Numidian, near carthage)
Tara (In Ireland)
Siwa (Numidian, Near libya)
Alesia (Celtic, In alsace-lorriane)
Brest (Celtic, In Breton)
Syracuse (Greek colony, In Sicily or maybe greeks should start of with a galley so the AI would settle there, bringing conflict with Rome.)
Pella (Macedonian, In Greece)
Belgica (Celtic, In Belgium)
Dalmatia (Illyrian, In former Yugoslavia)
Pripet (Scythian/Barbarian, In Russia
Paionia (Celtic somewhere in spain)
Bordesholm (Germanic)
Samarobriva (Sarmatian/Barbarian, In ukraine)
Lovosice (Celtic, In gaul)

It would also be good to see carthage AI do a lot more settling in spain and greece more settling in southern italy before rome spawns. That would be fun to see Greece, Rome and Carthage all contesting for southern Italy and CArthage and Rome battling for spain. Because currently as rome I kill Carthage as soon as spawn and greece a few turns later leaving all of Europe to myself. The Celts are so easy right now that dont count, I just take 3 leigons into gaul and wait for their initally defencess cities to spawn - pretty soon after I,ve settled europe.

Alesia? Damme?
As you can see, they aren't important nowadays cities. You should realize that if I put those celtic cities in, you'll see no Madrid, Berlin and many other later ones.

You named a lot of "regions" btw
Syracuse as a Greek Colony is expected to be founded by the Greeks, not placed. Same for Pella and others

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Not enough turns to do much as Rome before 450 AD IMHO

 

[Edungeon]

Alesia? Damme?
As you can see, they aren't important nowadays cities. You should realize that if I put those celtic cities in, you'll see no Madrid, Berlin and many other later ones.

You named a lot of "regions" btw
Syracuse as a Greek Colony is expected to be founded by the Greeks, not placed. Same for Pella and others

Well, you can "distort" the reality a little... take a tribe from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_peoples_of_the_Iberian_Peninsula, but their city in the same tile of Madrid.

I have no problem naming city with Barbarian names ( in normal CIV is already this way ).