A simple way to fix Maritime

[Bibor]

Maritime city-state bonus:

(Allied) increases food yields in cities by 6/12/18/24% depending on era.
(Friendly) increases food yields in cities by 3/6/9/12% depending on era.

Actual % are open to discussion.

This would mean you still need to work farms, less so in industrial age.
Also a suggestion would be to introduce +1 to mines at either Engineering or Dynamite depending on balance you want to accomplish.

***
Yes, this would mean a 72% increase with 3 Maritime Allies at Industrial and beyond, but it would still depend on the number of farms or fish that are being worked. So a 10-pop city in industrial with all tiles being worked generating 1 food = 17,2 food (7,2 surplus), but with two grassland farms that's 27,5 food (17,5 surplus).

 

[lissenber]

How about 12% during all eras? A percentile based bonus does not need to increase to stay effective.

 

[Bibor]

How about 12% during all eras? A percentile based bonus does not need to increase to stay effective.

Actually you're right

 

[Bibor]

double post

 

[Celevin]

I'd be really turned off Maritimes until the late game if this is how they worked. I'd see almost no food, VS the massive culture from culturals.

 

[lissenber]

I'd be really turned off Maritimes until the late game if this is how they worked. I'd see almost no food, VS the massive culture from culturals.

This could also be balanced by just making the cultural benefit from cultural City States based on a percentile.

It would also make the ICS playstyle weaker.

 

[Tylerryan79]

I think a good fix would be to make the AI use city states right, so the player can't have his choice of all the city states in the game. Right now I think they are too overpowered because I can basicly get every single one of them. If the AI valued them, and tried to stay allied with them, it would be harder to exploit them. Leave them as they are, just make the AI go for the
too.

 

[Ahriman]

Please see this thread, where this kind of proposal and several others have been discussed.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388179

The main proposals are:
1. MCS provides +X% food in all cities. eg 10%.
2. MCS provides +X food (scaled by era), allocated somehow across cities.
3. MCS provides +X food per population point.

 

[Bibor]

Please see this thread, where this kind of proposal and several others have been discussed.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388179

The main proposals are:
1. MCS provides +X% food in all cities. eg 10%.
2. MCS provides +X food (scaled by era), allocated somehow across cities.
3. MCS provides +X food per population point.

Agreed, valid options. You're also right about the AI needing to learn how to use city-states properly, in which case the % bonuses could be higher.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

I think a good fix would be to make the AI use city states right, so the player can't have his choice of all the city states in the game. Right now I think they are too overpowered because I can basicly get every single one of them. If the AI valued them, and tried to stay allied with them, it would be harder to exploit them. Leave them as they are, just make the AI go for the
too.

+1

I know exactly what my 250, 500, or 1000 gold is going to get me with a CS, but if the AI played competitively for CS alliances it could dramatically alter people's approach. They probably need some kind of nerf on top of it, but the fact it's basically a gold->food or gold->culture mechanic that the AI doesn't handle at all is the why it's such an unbalancing piece of the game. If it's equally overpowered to your opponents, then it's just a crucial part of gameplay (although I would probably quibble with its implementation if that were the case too).

 

[civnoob13]

3% would be absolutely useless. Maritimes themselves would basically be pretty useless.

The AI just has to learn to use maritimes properly, and then we can keep them exactly the same

 

[bryanw1995]

I think I'm going to start reducing the # of CS's. they are way OP'd in the mid/late game imho.

 

[UncleJJ]

Please see this thread, where this kind of proposal and several others have been discussed.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388179

The main proposals are:
1. MCS provides +X% food in all cities. eg 10%.
2. MCS provides +X food (scaled by era), allocated somehow across cities.
3. MCS provides +X food per population point.

It seems from your list that you've missed the most obvious option which might be a combination of 2 and 3. That is for each maritime CS to give a fixed amount of food to an empire and for that to be shared equally among the population.

That would mean big cities would get more food than small ones (a good thing). It would mean that small empires get the same food as big empires (a good thing) and might help alleviate some of the problems with ICS. It would make a few big cities, fuelled partly by CS food, more attractive than spreading that food out among a host of small inefficient cities, as pi-r8 has shown can be so effective with the current maritime CS.

Not sure if that option is included in your thread Ahriman, but it is too long and deals with a whole host of other issues that I didn't have time to plough through it.

Anyway that's my take on it, and it could be added to your list as:

4. MCS provides +X food shared equally among all population.

 

[KingMorgan]

If the AI learns how to use city states then you'd never get an oppertunity as the AI has far too much gold. You'd be back relying on random events to gain enough favour + all your gold, but then 10 turns later the AI buys the CS back and your poor and hungry.

 

[Ahriman]

That is for each maritime CS to give a fixed amount of food to an empire and for that to be shared equally among the population.

That's what option 2 is. +X food to the empire, with some kind of simple allocation rule (eg to largest cities first, proportional to population size, whatever).

On gold, I think in part the AI deliberately keeps a large gold reserve to use for buying soldiers. Its the only way it can rapidly replace an army if its army gets decimated.
If we force the AI to spend its gold, we risk making it fall apart even more severely when it loses its army.