A Spiritual Odyssy

[Pindrus]

I just looked at the save. Maybe these questions will be answered in your report (when you post it please make a new post instead of just editing #60 so that the thread bumps), but:

-I thought we had talked about founding the 2nd Bren Block city before a Shaka block one. Shaka will probably make a 3rd city north of his capitol next, not in the jungle towards us. Also, with rice & clams Bren Block #2 will contribute much more to the empire than a jungle city, even with horses.

-Also, no reason to have founded 1 off the coast. The capitol's borders will expand in 23 turns, only 5 turns after the new city's will with the chop. Plus the limiting factor in any case may well be worker turns as we are short on them at the moment.

-We should also have grown Constantinople and improved both its pigs before pumping out more workers. Another reason to not have founded the Shaka city--keep the worker at home for a couple more improvements so we can get off the ground faster. At size 5 we could be working 2 clams, 2 pigs, and a grass-hill-mine to crank out settlers & workers. Now we can't even 2-pop whip one to improve the pigs.

-We are also paying unit upkeep now and should delete the scout. Our borders have expanded so he's not busting any fog where he is.

That all said, sending a worker to Thessalonica and chopping out the monument there was good, and you got some nice scouting done as well. Interesting that the northern landmass may connect up with ours and be where Washington expands, instead of into the desert.

 

[grandad1982]

I'm just looking at the save. I have to say I agree with Pindrus's comments.

The Shaka blocker should have come after the Bren blocker which could worked more grassland cottages pre iron working and worker turns.

Also I fail to see why the city was built 1 off the coast rather than on the tile 1S. If worried about the horses we could have built corn city as the 4th city. We might not be working the horse but at least it would be in an area that Shaka probably won't squeeze a city in. In fact if the corm city was 1SW it would lose 2 desert tiles and gain 2 costal tiles (1 off) but would get the horses in the BFC. Not a bad trade off IMO as at least the sea tiles do something.

We need more workers but I'll grow the Capital first. I'll send a worker back to pasture the pigs. and start a chop for the Bren blocker.

Also without writng we need to get commerce going soon so I'll try to get a cottage or two down.

Will asign ep to Shaka and Washington (1) and Bren (2).

I'm exited to see the rest of the map. Looks pretty cool.

 

[Pindrus]

I think there was already a chop into a monument at Thessalonica (Bren Block #1). After the worker is finished mining the hill he should probably road back north to connect it and Bren Block #2 with the trade network, to address the commerce issues you raise. But yes, more cottages would be good. I think there are a couple open tiles by the Shaka city that we should fill before jungle grows there.

 

[grandad1982]

My plan for the workers was to send the one fro Andripol to the Cap to pasture the pigs and chop the riverside hill.

The worker at Thessa will put a cottage down and maybe a mine before it starts to road N.

Will get the worker out of the Cap but might grow it with a warrior first.

Will try to chop out the 2nd Bren Blocker and maybe get a 4th worker out to.

Tech after IW Writing or Priest/Mono?

Also I'll get some binary research on the go.

 

[Pindrus]

Sounds like a good plan. I'm all for chopping in the cap for settlers/workers, as we have lots of nice land to claim and improve. I also like the plan above for the location of the desert-bordering city.

To be honest when I looked at the save (can't atm) I didn't think much about tech path and didn't look at the religious situation. Are we desperately trying to found more religions? If so priesthood and running a temple may get a bulb for Theo, but it seems sort of late to start that. Perhaps writing would be better to bulb philo. Or are we just going to focus on spreading our one religion far and wide, and one way or another compelling our war targets to join the faith?

 

[grandad1982]

PFT

I delet the scout in the S and move the N scout to see what Shaka's been up to.

I drop sci to 0%


1

....


2

Start to pasture the pigs.


3

Adrian, Mon > Gran

sci up to 100%


4

A forest grows near Thessa.

Livy lets us know the obvious

Spoiler :

5

.....


6

Mine in Thessa done.


7

Start a cottage in Thessa.


8

Pasture done in Con.


9

Start a cottage at Adrian.

Con, Worker > Gran

We see what Shaka's up to and find Liz's land.

Spoiler :

Start a chop in Con.


10&11

.....


12

Drop sci to 0%


13

IBT our W2 Warrior kills a barb.

The Cottage at Thessa is done but I don't work it as I want the gran done 1 turn before the pop grows to 4. In hindsight this is silly as the happy cap is only 4 so the saved food and potential faster growth is wasted and the extra commerce would have been preferable.


14

I start a road from Thessa towards Con.


15

Chop is done in Con and goes in to a Settler.

Sci up to 100%

We have a look at Washingtons new city

Spoiler :

16

Thessa,Gran > Warroir (till growth)


17

Thessa is switched to a Worker.

IwWhip the Settler in Con.

IW in and I stop here.


So a pretty dull set but lots of worker managment.

We haveIron in the 1st ring of the Bren Blocker 2. Which is nice. Shaka has Iron. Which isn't nice.

The worker from Thessa should probably go straight to Bren Blocker 2 when its built.

I set Priest as a place holder. I've been confusing Priest and Med and ment Med in my previous post and also ment to set it as a placeholder.

I forget which turn it was but I OBed with Shaka (mid set?).

Here's a screen that lets youknow what the world thinks of each other....

Spoiler :

Sadly we don't have Alpha or any trade techs to bribe a war or two.

We still need more workers.

Get the Iron up as a priority and get our power rating from its lowly position to something a bit safer.

Umm. I think thats it at the mo.

Roster
Sirlion
Grandad1982
cripp7 - up now
Pindrus - on deck
White Dragon
narri - on holiday

The save

 

[Pindrus]

1st off... eew, tile grid!

Just kidding, though I have turned that on about 3 times since getting civ4, and two of those were probably by accident!

Liz's geography (not like that, people!) is interesting--either she's on a long peninsula or that's an inland sea. I probably would have signed OB with her and then... oh neither of us have writing yet.

Good micro in timing the growth @ Thessalonica too.

Couple questions I have--

1. Did you work out math about whipping the settler? I think usually it's better to work high-yield tiles if there is no granary, but maybe imperialistic changes that? I always make these decisions intuitively (no math micro here!). Either way we'll regrow quickly with the pigs & seafood.

2. I thought we were going to groom Thessalonica (Bren Block #1) for production with all those hills. If this is the case there's no point to spending turns developing cottages or worker turns in building them. I'd vote for 2-pop whipping the worker in queue and building some mines. Even if we don't need military we will be needing to crank out some missionaries.

For the next set--

Settler should definitely head to Bren Block #2 and secure some metal.

As for tech path, in retrospect I'm not sure if IW was the best. AI's usually research it early enough and if we had gone writing->Alpha we could backfill for that plus things like sailing/meditation/priesthood/maybe mono. I'm not sure when this crew will get to Alpha (is it a bad sign that a fin. civ doesn't yet have writing even?), so it may still be worth it to head that way ourselves (definitely do binary research here).

We should also trade our clams for Shaka's fish ASAP to build good diplo. Probably then trade our 2nd clams for crabs from Washington, for the same reason.

 

[cripp7]

Couple questions I have--

1. Did you work out math about whipping the settler? I think usually it's better to work high-yield tiles if there is no granary, but maybe imperialistic changes that? I always make these decisions intuitively (no math micro here!). Either way we'll regrow quickly with the pigs & seafood.

I use the math that shows in BUG, which is great about that! I always hated having to do all the math manually.

2. I thought we were going to groom Thessalonica (Bren Block #1) for production with all those hills. If this is the case there's no point to spending turns developing cottages or worker turns in building them. I'd vote for 2-pop whipping the worker in queue and building some mines. Even if we don't need military we will be needing to crank out some missionaries.

Right now there is only one tile that is able to produce a farm. I also agree about 2-pop that work are also, start working on some mines. There's also a lot of forests around Thess to chop out workers or units.

For the next set--

Settler should definitely head to Bren Block #2 and secure some metal.

As for tech path, in retrospect I'm not sure if IW was the best. AI's usually research it early enough and if we had gone writing->Alpha we could backfill for that plus things like sailing/meditation/priesthood/maybe mono. I'm not sure when this crew will get to Alpha (is it a bad sign that a fin. civ doesn't yet have writing even?), so it may still be worth it to head that way ourselves (definitely do binary research here).

We should also trade our clams for Shaka's fish ASAP to build good diplo. Probably then trade our 2nd clams for crabs from Washington, for the same reason.

I think going writing>alpha is best, at least a couple turns into it to make it cheaper. I also agree about the trades to build diplo because we need Shaka to play nice right now.

 

[narri]

Sorry for lack of contact. You can now consider me available for duty as my holiday is over! Give me a couple of days to explore what has happened so far.

(btw, what happened was that the comp I was using for internet (which wasn't my laptop with civ on it) malfunctioned hours after I got my save uploaded for Expansive Dreams)

and i'm back on my comfy 3mbps internet again, so the pictures will come back

 

[Pindrus]

Welcome back to the land of CIV!

 

[cripp7]

Pre-Turn
Make a trade with Washington

Spoiler :

Make a trade with Shaka

Spoiler :

hit enter.

Turn 98
drop to 0%, to build binary research

Turn 99
zzz

Turn 100
Adria monument>granary
to 80% IW in 12

Turn 101
We are the poorest civilization!
worker in Const

Turn 102
zzz

Turn 103
Border pop in Thess switch to settler @pop3 due in 12

Turn 104
zzz

Turn 105
OB with Shaka

Found Elizabeth

Spoiler :

A Brennus axe shows up at the border

Turn 106
Const at pop3 switch to settler, worker has 2 chops left

Turn 107
zzz

Turn 108
zzz

Turn 109
zzz

Turn 110
zzz

Turn 111
Thess settler continue granary

Turn 112
Thess granary

Turn 113
Thess worker
settle Nicaea >monument

Spoiler :

drop to 0%, to build

Turn 114
Shaka is now an Islamic state!

slider back to 40% IW due in 2

Turn 115
zzz

Turn 116
IW>Writing


We have iron in Nicaea! And another source 2S of rice by Adria .
Brennus's borders are closing in to Nicaea, we can OB with him but waited for input.
Worker is on its way to that iron, and other settler is going to the corn/gold
Need to start getting more workers out

 

[Pindrus]

Um, nice turns cripp, but I think you have played from Sirloin's save, not Grandad's Maybe I added to the confusion by looking in hindsight at the IW tech choice.

He popped IW during his set, so we already knew it was there. I can't open the save at the moment, so I'm not sure which situation would be preferable, but I think in the SG spirit we should play on from Grandad's save. If you have time to play & report again I'd say go ahead and do so.

 

[White Dragon]

Hello, McFly. Anybody in there?

 

[Pindrus]

I'm up next in the roster, but hadn't heard from anyone about how they think we should proceed. It looks like we have two saves to choose from a couple turns apart. I could play tonight and may just to keep this moving along (from Grandad's save), but was hoping to have this be a team endeavor. Even if we go back to Grandad's set there has been very little feedback--and not even a report for the set before that . I could just go play and do what I think is best, but I feel at that point I may as well play single-player. The pace of this SG is slower than others (47/72 got it/report) so I was waiting to see if others would chime in.

I'll be moving over the next few days, with no firm ETA on when I will be set up. Hopefully no more than a couple days. So if someone else would rather take it I'm fine with that. As I said, I could still play tonight though (4-8 hrs from now or so).

 

[cripp7]

I sure did, I can't believe I did that. Ok then, take it away Pindrus!

 

[White Dragon]

Um, nice turns cripp ... I can't open the save at the moment, so I'm not sure which situation would be preferable, but I think in the SG spirit we should play on from Grandad's save. If you have time to play & report again I'd say go ahead and do so.

I guess I thought that this was the decision so I didn't provide any more comments.

 

[cripp7]

i can replay from GRANDAD's save!! probably today, or in the morning

 

[grandad1982]

Sorry for the absence guys but my internets been down for some since last tuesday! Serious head f@#K.

@ Prindrus
I tend to us BUG to do the maths for me to get my whips out (used to do the maths the old fashioned way).

As for the cottage at Thessa, I simply forgot what we had decided. I like to lable cities with their primary role so I don't make these mistakes!

@ cripp7 doh!

For the future plans I would consentrate on getting to Alpha so we can back fill our techs.

As ever more workers is always nice.

Settle the gold city (either were we origanally planned on 1SW to swap desert for coast).

@ narri
Nice to have you back! Hope your holiday was a good one.

@ Sirloin
You out there dude?

 

[cripp7]

Pre-Turn
Switch tech to writing, with the correct save!

Turn 112
Con settler goes to iron

Turn 113
Con granary>warrior

Turn 114
Thess 2pop worker> worker

Turn 115
slider to 0%
worker chopping worker

Turn 116
zzz

Turn 117

Turn 118
Con warrior>warrior
Settle Nicaea > monument
Brennus's border is encroaching
Slider to 80%

Turn 119
zzz

Turn 120
Con switched to settler

Turn 121
zzz

Turn 122
zzz

Turn 123
slider down to 20%

Turn 124
worker roads iron

Turn 125
zz

Turn 126
Con settler>worker

Turn 127
Stop here.

Settler ready for gold/corn
Writing due in 7t at 40%
Horse is pastured/road, so is iron

 

[White Dragon]

1.) Shaka built "Shaka Block 2" and has another party headed somewhere just to the east of Adrianople.

2.) Instead of settling gold city, we move to block Shaka somewhere.

3.) Before end of turn, switch Constantinople to settler. Whip on next turn. Not ideal, but then we can settle gold city in just a couple of turns.

4.) At the "new" location of gold city, aka 1S then 1SE of gold, it looks like we are overlapping 6 tiles. Couldn't easily find old location but 1W of wheat only has 4 desert plus we gain 2 grassland tiles.



5.) For tech, what does everybody think about Writing -> Sailing? We have no trade routes and it would take quite a while to get them all connected via roads or to tech Alpha then hope for a trade. Plus, we could settle on those islands for some nice overseas trade routes.