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A Spiritual Odyssy

1.) Shaka built "Shaka Block 2" and has another party headed somewhere just to the east of Adrianople.

2.) Instead of settling gold city, we move to block Shaka somewhere.

Yes that's a good idea, get a blocker before we're boxed in between Shaka & Brennus

3.) Before end of turn, switch Constantinople to settler. Whip on next turn. Not ideal, but then we can settle gold city in just a couple of turns.

Con has enough food for faster regrowth so that would work, we need cities right now.

4.) At the "new" location of gold city, aka 1S then 1SE of gold, it looks like we are overlapping 6 tiles. Couldn't easily find old location but 1W of wheat only has 4 desert plus we gain 2 grassland tiles.

I think the other overlapping spot was to make-up for the desert tiles, 1W of corn is fine with me. Once cottaged out, should be an alright hybrid city.

5.) For tech, what does everybody think about Writing -> Sailing? We have no trade routes and it would take quite a while to get them all connected via roads or to tech Alpha then hope for a trade. Plus, we could settle on those islands for some nice overseas trade routes.

I think Alpha and trading for Sailing would be better, putting cities on :science: will help too.
 
I was wondering about sailing and settling those islands too.

I'm not sure what the benifit of the shaka blocker would be. Surely about the only thing it would block is the gold/wheat city? It would remain small and hungry for the majority of the game. I guess it would capture the wine and spice.

Its a shame Shaka didn't get Islam from us in my save....
 
Oh yer.

I think Alpha before Sailing too but sailing should come soon after. Once writing is in lets try to get a GSci fast for a bulb or to settle as it will really help us out.

Also whoevers up next (sorry I've forgotten) could you lable the cities with there intended uses, i.e. production, commerce, GP etc.

Despite being absent for a week due to internet issues I'm affraid that I'm away till next tuesday now as I'm off to a festival to get some quality muddy field time in!

Have fun guys.
 
Roster
Sirlion
Grandad1982 - Out until 8/25
cripp7 - Just played
Pindrus - up now
White Dragon - on deck
narri
 
Glad you were able to get some turns in here Cripp. I haven't looked at the save yet, but I think I should be able to get this in time (possibly tomorrow?). Working on a setup where the net connection is on a different computer than my Civ install but I should be able to overcome that. I agree on heading to alpha, with 0 or 100% research. If another AI gets alpha before we turn on research, we could swap to aesthetics for trade bait and then trade both of them around to backfill for sailing & others.

As for Shaka blocking, I think if we want to push out a bit a city a 2 north of the blocker labelled in WD's pic would be preferable to settling in Shaka's face. The point of that city would be to grab those spices, incense, and wine. 2N does this with less border tension. After that and the gold/wheat city (which should be geared towards commerce I think), the islands hold good possibilities for expansion.

I'll also try and add some city specialization tags :)
 
All righty, sorry for the delay but I have the save now and will be playing & reporting in a few hours.
 
Preplay:
Notice that we haven't started any of the relations-improving resource trades, so take care of that right away. Also added city specialization tags. None of our cities are connected to the capital for trade routes, which is 4:commerce: at this point and more when we make an island city. This will need to change.



I see we have a settler en route to either the corn/gold or a shaka blocker. I think the gold city should be founded where the settler is now, within range of the pigs too, but I decide to found the next city to the east. There are no less than 3 :) resources there (wine, spices, incense) and it will be a decent spot to work grasslands cottages with little production or whipping potential.

I also micro Adrianople to whip the granary sooner.



I note a possible bug- Is Hammurabi the last un-met civ? Liz has brought the English people under the Jewish faith even though they are not the founders themselves. Hammy is known to beeline for Monotheism so I would guess that he is to the west of England. I'd also guess Hammy is on an island as this is Big & Small.



Turn 1 (128 - 800 BC)
Bren wanders into the palace asking if he can flood our lands with missionaries. Seeing as he is 2 other leaders' worst enemy I send his monks packing. He obviously has writing now though, making 3 others who have it before us.

Turn 2 (129 - 775 BC)
Granary in Adrianople is whipped, with the citizen put back on the riverside hamlet. Barracks next just to grow.

Shaka was also out to nab our spot! Now we'll see if he heads east or plops down a town in our backlands.



Turn 3 (130 - 750 BC)
We complete a warrior in Thessalonica. I thought about changing this as all of our cities have token garrisons and this is one of the few places we can actually build axes. I guess this guy can go fogbust the little peninsula towards Shaka.

Antioch is founded and Shaka continues to move his settler NW. Slider down to 20% so writing is dragging out but cottages will be going up soon.



Turn 4 (131 - 725 BC)
Arrg, Constantinople also builds a warrior? I don't really understand here. We don't even have a barracks. I should have micro'd this better, but better late than never and work is swapped to the clams for growth & commerce.

Monument -> Granary in Nicea. I don't think we'll ever really steal the rice from Bren though :(

I also notice this! Please do not have workers do automated moves that extend beyond your turnset in SG's. The road-to is a nice function and saves time, but I shouldn't have to click on every single worker to see what they're up to.



Turn 5 (132 - 700 BC)
I sign OB's with Liz to scout through her land. She is WE of Bren though, so we should cancel this deal at 10 turns or when we finish scouting, whichever comes first.

Turn 6 (133 - 675 BC)
Looks like the Barbs got lucky and spawned in one of the two spots possible over here. Our warrior lost a toss-up battle in the woods so the archer is 2.0/3 strength.



Shaka has also founded in our backyard. Unfortunately our capital won't pop its borders for a long time, so we will have to live with this for now. Not a big deal and it's a decent enough spot to take later on. Probably the worst thing will be extra border tension.



Turn 8 (135 - 625 BC)
The crafty Byzantines have discovered how to carve representations of their thoughts onto stone tablets. The joys of this discovery send all the sages in the lands off partying, which halts all research but generates tax revenue on all the booze they down. All the commerce cities building barracks swap to libraries.



Constantinople grows into unhappiness in anticipation of a 3-pop library whip next turn.

Turn 10 (137 - 575 BC)
Our first library is built and Constantinople is set to regrow on the crabs and mined pigs.

Turn 11 (138 - 575 BC)
Indeed, we meet Hammurabi of the Babylonians to the west of England and he is the founder of Judaism. In other news all 4 of 5 cities are connected to the trade network, yay! To celebrate the occasion the warrior in Thessalonica beats back the barbarian archer who ruined the city's micromanagement!



Constantinople has also regrown to 4 pop and we hire 2 scientists and stagnate working a clams + mined pigs. Currently Alpha takes 15 turns at 100% research, with -19gpt. So it will cost us 285 gold to run to either alpha or aesthetics at this rate. Hopefully this will improve shortly...

Spoiler Capitol City Shot :




Turn 13 (140 - 500 BC)
Not really at a stopping point, but back to a nice round number. Here we get a free Islam spread to Adrianople, thanks RNG. Otherwise a quiet turn and hopefully that will continue for a while so I will end my set here.

Closing Thoughts
GW went to Greece and GLH to England during my set. England will likely be an economic powerhouse this game led by Liz and buddied up with co-religionist Hammy. No religious changes on the international scene either.

The continent seems to be a very long and snaky pangea, as we have found Hammy's borders with our warrior. Nicely enough we also have a coastal sea route to Liz that bypasses Celtia and Greece.

Shaka still has his hands free and would declare on Pericles or Washington if we could give him something for it. It doesn't look like he has any metals, which is great news. We should have no problems whipping a few axes if he decides to spam offensive archers. If he does go WHEOOHRN though, we should assume it is targeting us.

Some Micro:
-Constantinople is stagnant running 2 scientists at 4 pop. Whip anger will subside in 11 turns, so be sure to set it to grow to size 5 to coincide with that (keeping the 2 scientists but working the clams or pigs).
-Thessalonica grew to unhappiness thanks to the barb archer pillaging a mine. Currently it's starving down by working cottages and a mine. Be sure to swap one citizen back to the pigs before it shrinks though.

Tech path:
We are currently working on Alpha with 2 scientists and the 1 free beaker. 62 gold in the bank would only support 3 turns of 100% research, and at 0% we are at +10gpt, so it will be a while before we can afford another tech. I'd keep our sights on Alpha until we can fund research, then go for Aesthetics if someone has picked up Alpha at that point, and Alpha ourselves if not.

Team decision:
Up to this point we have been in NSR for diplo but we are running into the happy cap in Constantinople with good tiles yet to work (and the food to support lots of specialists). Is it worth the diplo malus with England, Babylon, and Celtia for the happy face? I'm inclined to say no and hope to get to calendar/monarchy soon enough.


Roster
Sirlion
Grandad1982
cripp7 - Second time is a charm
Pindrus - Just Played
White Dragon - Up now!
narri - On Deck

And the save:
 

Attachments

  • A Spiritual Odyssy BC-0500.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Looking back we should probably farm over a couple riverside tiles at Adrianople at least temporarily for quicker regrowth while whipping out infra (and possibly units if Shaka starts sharpening his spears).
 
A Dragon's Spiritual Quest, Part 2
Spoiler :

There hasn't been much comment in the last 3 days so I just ran with Pindurius's post play plan. Played the entire set on alert looking for Shaka to send a settling party to collect that Iron since we have OB with him.

Turn 140 Minor MMing

Turn 141 Washington wants open borders. I don't see the harm and say OK.

Turn 142 Sent a warrior into Shaka's land to see if he really had metal or not.

Turn 143 Washington has ABC but won't trade it with us.

Turn 144-145 Z

Turn 146 Whip Library in Thess.

Turn 147 Shaka converts to Islam.

Turn 148
1.) We convert to Islam
2.) Shaka cancel our resource trade.
3.) I make another with him.

4.) Open Border with Hammy to explore past his land.

Turn 149-150 Z

Turn 151
1.) Most wealthiest list.

2.) Bren wants us to cancel deals with Lizzie. I say no.
3.) Washington cancels our resource deal with him. He won't be swayed into another.

Turn 152-153 Z

Turn 154 Pericles has ABC but we have nothing to trade.

Turn 155-156 Z

Turn 157
1.) Alphabet is completed.
2.) Queue Aesthetics.
3.) Shaka has Sailing so we need to back fill so prevent him from getting iron.
4.) Lizzie will trade ABC for Sailing and Priesthood.


Roster
Sirlion - On Deck
Grandad1982
cripp7
Pindrus
White Dragon - Just Played
narri - Up now!
 

Attachments

  • A Spiritual Odyssy BC-0245.CivBeyondSwordSave
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I'm back!

Nice sets while I've been away.

I would trade Alpha and back fill sooner rather than waiting for Aes. We can get some Island cities up if we trade for sailing.

Bummer about that Shaka city but its goo we can now DoW on him if we want (not that we have designs on our friends and niebours).

Will look at the save and coment later.

Liz could be a good long term friend, esspecially as she is likely to stay Jewish for a while yet.
 
Got it. My comments:
-Well, this definitely isn't the sprawling empire we had in Expansive Dreams!
-We have only warriors and workers....that's not good, especially since Shaka has 2 archers in all the cities I see! I'm going to have to check for war readiness mode every turn!
-We're getting a GS in 6. What to do with him? (I think GS currently bulbs Math). I feel inclined to settle the guy in the capital.
-In 2 turns, I'm going to take a citizen off a hamlet in Thessalonica and put him on a 1F/3H tile to stagnate
-I don't see us attacking Shaka for the forseeable future
-Diplomacy is going to be difficult here. Liz will give us Sailing+Priesthood for Alpha, but of course she has to be worst enemy of both Brennus and Shaka :(.
-We could use Calendar soon for the happy
-Nasty amounts of jungle in our territory, must fix soon
Plan:
Goal: get some more advanced units to hold off greedy people while continuing infrastructure
We are so close to happy cap in many places, the whip is going to be used sparsely.

Thessalonica:
Almost grow over happy cap, then stagnate to finish Barracks>Axeman, will grow when anger wears off

Nicea:
Probably 2-pop whip the library when available, then slot in Barracks while growing to happy cap, emphasizing cottage development

Constantinople:
Grow in 1 turn, then stagnate to get some hammers into Barracks>Axeman>{2-pop whip} worker. 2 Sci will be left alone to pop a GS in 6. Shall I keep them going after the GS, or put them to work in the fields to get us some more workers?

Adrianople:
Transfer a citizen from 2F/1H forest to 1F/4H/1C horse tile to increase production a little bit. Barracks>Axeman

Antioch:
Will whip granary>Library
 
I agree with settling the GS in Const and the plan as a whole. Fire the Sci for a bit to get some more workers out IMO.

We should be warry that Washington has Sailing so he might start to settle those islands soon.

A nice spot for an island city is 2N1E of the cow on the peninsular. Also that norther fish spot with the bronze.

Its a shame we can claim that iron by shaka and have the food.

Consentrate on the border with Bren first as we can try to keep Shaka on side via diplomacy as we share a religion.

Does Shaka hate Liz due to the hidden peace wieght?
 
Return of the Pictures

I hope I don't play too badly (I just finished participating in a Settler-level gauntlet, so the jump to Monarch may be a bit abrupt!).

245 BC (Inherited):
Examine cities again and do some MM. Exploring warrior goes deeper into Shaka territory.
I just realize that I don't need to stagnate Thessalonica as it's 4 turns to growth and 4 turns to wear off slavery.
Ok, let's begin.
Going for Aesthetics and hope for some trading that doesn't make my neighbors angry!
0% for some money.

230 BC:
Umm, who was saying Liz was going to stay Jewish? 'Cause she's a Christian now.
Thessalonica get some Buddhism.
Hmm, Shaka has built another Settler in Bulwayo. I think he's going to settle his northeast fish/clams.

215 BC:
Thessalonica Barracks>Axeman(7)
2-pop whip Library in Nicea.
Washington has now joined the Islamic bloc. Too bad we don't have stuff to trade him.

200 BC:
Nicea Library>Barracks(71)
Constantinople Barracks>Axeman(8)
Shaka has two axes now.
Nongoma (Shaka) has expanded borders.

185 BC:
So much for possibly flipping Nongoma. Islam randomly spreads there.
Whip granary in Antioch.
Put slider back up to 100% for now. Aes in 9.

170 BC:
Pericles wants open borders. I say yes.

Islam spreads in Washington.

155 BC:
GS pops out. He is settled.

Stagnate Thessalonica, while firing the two scientists there.
Slow down Constantinople, firing the two scientists to work some cottages for the moment.

140 BC:
Oh hell:

This could be trouble.
On top of that, Brennus gets a GS. I really hope Aesthetics will let us cement the Islamic bloc.
Time to start whipping again.
2-pop whip library in Adrianople as I see a partially complete Barracks in queue.
Drop slider to 0%.

125 BC:
Hammurabi is probably building Collossus, as he really wants to hold onto Metal Casting.
Thessalonica Axeman>Spy(8). The time is now to find out what the hell is going on.
Shaka has founded a city about where I thought he would:

100% slider, 6 turns to Aes.

110 BC:
waiting

95 BC:
Constantinople Axeman>Axeman.
Wow, I think Shaka has been influenced by our Expansive Dreams play:

2-pop whip an axe in Constantinople.
Hammurabi knows Monarchy as Pyramids isn't gone and he went Hereditary Rule :/.

80 BC:
Constantinople Axeman>Worker(6)
Good news: Shaka is now Pleased with us. Well, Washington is pleased too, but we don't care about him :).
Let's go cement it:

I had wanted to prechop a tree, but completely forgot about it and ended up chopping it out in Thessalonica :blush:. Spy in 1.

65 BC:
Thessalonica Spy>Axeman (8)
We find where Shaka expanded to:


50 BC:
Aes is in. Slot in Currency as a placeholder.

The situation as it stands:

You know it might be a bad day when Brennus has more power than Shaka...
Brennus is worst enemies with Washington, Elizabeth, and Hammurabi. All three are too far for him to be thinking about war with them. It is surely aimed at us!

I've labelled a possible maoi spot (now doable since we have sailing.


We need units and defense fast. Spy should scout out what army is coming. Brennus has 2 coppers, so we can't sabotage that.
Some interesting trades have opened up, though Liz won't let go of CoL.

The save:
View attachment A Spiritual Odyssy BC-0050.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
I would definitely assume Bren is aiming for us. A 2nd axe might have been better than a spy at this point, but oh well. Can't look at the save so I don't know what everything is producing, but I'd say get some axes out of the cap and Thessalonica. Maybe see if a masonry trade is available. No reason to hold onto Alpha at this point (though if others had it we should have gone aesthetics first). Trade it away unless it has diplo penalties, though we've known everyone for a while now so if it's a relatively fair trade the modifier shouldn't be too great.

Bren shouldn't have construction so a defensive war should be pretty easy and low risk. Maybe try and get someone to 10xp for HE.

Pleased Shaka is good news, but he can still attack at pleased and we are his only foreign border. Do we have anything to offer Shaka for him to declare on Bren? If we don't have enough now we definitely should as soon as Bren declares on us (price for war will drop a lot) for the shared war diplo and to ensure he doesn't build up for us. It looks like he is still without a metal though. We should make sure he doesn't settle the iron in our territory. If he doesn't get iron he will be SOL later on.
 
p.s. - I think Sirloin is up now. Got the save sir?

Also, that Maoi spot looks good. Keep the forests, chop the jungle and hope for forest growth. Maybe even coal or alu in the hills? Not an immediate priority though (that would be the iron spot, too bad it can't also grab the cows, stupid shaka).
 
Nice to see you back in the game narri!

Sirlion is up but I have a feeling he may be MIA. I'll give it another 24 before I take the save.

Bren is a big bully face. I think a defensive a war would be our only option anyway due to the variation limits.....

Will peak at the save and post more thoughts later.
 
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