A System of Theoretical and Applied Research

[Trade-peror]

Would this type of system be moddable with the SDK now out?

In this system of research, theoretical research would be what Civ traditionally considers the "tech tree," in which new technologies yield new units, buildings, and other benefits, and lead to new technologies to discover. Applied research, on the other hand, is refining the benefits of theoretical research, and is more akin to upgrades than traditional Civ research.

For example, a civ could order theoretical research on Engineering. When completed, the civ would have access to Knights, Castle, Hagia Sophia, and +1 road movement. None of these benefits would be very strong initially, however, since the theoretical research only provides a framework for their design. To be practical, most likely several rounds of applied research on the items would be necessary. Applied research works on individual items and boosts one of their stats or abilities. So some applied research could yield +1 Strength and +10% Against Meless Units for the Knight, and +10% Defense for Castle, for example.

Since the newly-conceptualized Knights and Castles are initially weak, these bonuses are not overpowering. In addition, each new refinement costs more, so though there may not be a hard limit on the number of times applied research can be used to enhance a particular item, the cost of additional upgrades will become prohibitive at some point. Also note that applied research would only apply to "generic" items, which excludes Wonders and National Wonders (although it might be feasible to allow "after-the-fact" applied research that enhances unique structures after they are built). Suggestions are welcome.

Applied research is also not necessarily limited to buildable items. Civics, road movement bonuses, and trade route bonuses might also be improved with applied research.

Ideally, this system would involve separate interfaces, one for theoretical and one for applied research. The theoretical interface would be very similar to Civ's current tech tree, while the applied interface would be more of an "upgrade screen." Science beakers are necessary in both cases though, and I am not decided on whether there should be separate allocations through a slider or some other method.

This system would allow for more flexibility in research and overall strategy, as well as differentiation between civs. There could be a very practical civ that concentrates a lot of improving what it has. Or there could be a civ that just flies ahead into the future with all its theory and ideas. A civ that is landlocked can mostly ignore the sea-based items and concentrate more on land items. A very commercial civ may devote more research into improving its banks and trade route yields. A seafaring civ can develop a highly specialized navy.

In this way, civs can become specialized and more adaptive to their particular circumstances, in a way giving civs unique units, buildings, and even civics. Such a research system could add a lot of flavor to the game, and in a flexible and strategically important way.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this idea, and whether it is moddable.

 

[Chalid]

It is doable for sure.

It might even be relatively simple for Units as you could add Promotions on them for each further applied research. It might be more complicatet for the other items through, as you would have to add to each call for item stats a call for the changes applied by the civilization (or save each stat civilization dependend - both things take equall amounts of work).
I'm not sure if the work needed to do that will pay of (we are speaking here of up to several thousand function calls dependend on how much you want to change)

So i would say: for units relatively easy, for the rest

 

[Padmewan]

Not sure why this isn't possible pre-SDK, given some Python UI adjustments. Can't the tech tree just have a completely different trunk with certain dependencies on the theoretical tech tree?

For example, the regular tree has "Guilds."

On a row separated out from the regular tree is the "Knights" trunk, the first one dependent on "Guilds" and each one researchable to the next level for upgrading purposes. Each would would enable Knights Mark II, Mark III, etc.

I suppose you'd have to pay to upgrade the knights, so that may be what you are proposing? But it still seems that Python could automate these upgrades costlessly.

Seems like even in Python you could code it so that GridY > 15 would go on to a different interface, again coded in Python. But I might be overestimating what Python can do.

 

[Trade-peror]

Thank you for everyone's responses. Here are a few more considerations/clarifications:

The applied research concept can be likened to "permanent stats upgrades" for the items in question. The original intention is that civs can develop particularly expert Archers or more effective Banks, but each project would require separate concentration of research resources. In other words, no items will "happen" to be improved without deliberately devoting resources to their applied research. This is one difference between Lord Olleus's system and the system I am proposing here. But since the ideal may be difficult to implement, Lord Olleus's system can provide a good approximation, when more non-essential "upgrade technologies" are dispersed throughout the tech tree.

Padmewan's suggestion of having separate tech tree "trunks" could be difficult simply due to the large number of trunks that would be necessary. In addition, it assumes the linear progression of upgrades on an item as a whole, which differs from the original intention of linear progression of upgrades on single aspects of items (strength, gold bonus, etc.). But Padmewan's suggestion could also provide a good approximation.

Ideally, the programming for applied research would be less item-specific, as seems to be the suggestions so far. My programming experience is relatively limited, but here's is how I envision the script:
1. There would be a button or command on every upgradable item for applied research.
2. Pressing this button would enter the item into the "applied research function" (ARF). This essentially means that the stats and characteristics for this item (cost, strength, happiness bonus, required resources, etc.) are entered into the ARF template.
3. ARF then narrows down the template to only the stats and characteristics that have a value for the entered item, and thus are the only stats that are pertinent. So a unit entered into ARF would have all the building stats (happiness bonus, health effects, etc.) pared away, because the unit would have 0 or none for those stats.
4. Once narrowed down, the ARF offers the player the option to enhance any of the remaining stats. The cost in science for upgrading each stat should be determined through playtesting for balance, and any additional costs in gold or hammers would reflect the upgrading of any old facilities as soon as the applied research is complete.
This is a highly simplified scheme, and I do not know if it is even programmable. But if realistic, this script would cut out the tedium of separately programming the numerous upgrades available for every item, and keep the variety of upgrades that are available to each item appropriate.

Chalid, Padmewan, and Lord Olleus, I would be very interested in your opinions on whether this script would be doable. Lord Olleus, I also would be interested in the script you have written so far for your mod.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Perhaps the system could be linked with existing Promotions so the player is presented with a list of Promotions as their Research options. Research the Promotion to give it to all existing units and get it for free imediatly on all subsequent ones. The researchability tree is identical to the promotion dependency tree so you would have to do several rounds before you got "Drill III" as an option. Units which already have a Promotion get to skip research on these promotions, likewise you can skip if Agrressive trait gives you that free Combat I. This would just about fully cover units with the sole exception of cost reducing improvments though personaly I dont think these will be missed much.

Buildings are realy not very improvable, nothing but cost reductions realy springs to mind so in my opinion they could just be skiped. A system of Applied Research thats restricted to Unit Promotions will still be very cool and will probably be much simpler to implement then one that needs to work with other kinds of game objects.

 

[Trade-peror]

Improvements for buildings would include increased gold bonuses, increased hammer bonuses, ability to utilize different resources to generate benefits, increased trade route yield, and conferment of more experience points (e.g. improved Barracks), besides just cost reductions. Similarly, civics could become more effective, with higher commerce bonuses from towns, more additional trade routes, and lower upkeep costs.

Impaler[WrG], your idea with the promotions differs from my original intentions in that the entire army as a whole is improved through applied research, rather than specific unit types. This would indeed be much easier to program though, and I would very much enjoy such a change.