A thoughtfull letter

[Dogberry_Old]

There is a real difference between a trickster god ( Loki.. Mercury.. Hermes.. and perhaps Dionysus )... & the God of Abraham, especially in power & granduer. Comparing the two .. is like matching the flea against the heavens. One is knowable... the other is forever obscured to mortals.

Dog

 

[stormerne]

I respectfully suggest Dog, that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

For one thing to say that Loki is a trickster god shows a profound (though all too common) ignorance of Loki. I doubt you have met or worked with him as I have.

For another, I was mainly refering to Odin as a stirrer of strife and only the parentheses refered to Loki. Again I doubt if you have met, known, experienced or worked with Odin as I have.

And finally you are quite and utterly mistaken when you say that Yahweh is unknowable. He is knowable just like any other god, and his power and grandeur does not exceed that of any other god I know. I know him but choose not to work with him because I don't like his character or his ethics. All you can say for certain is that you personally do not know him, and your flea/heavens analogy only proves you know neither him nor any other god.

If of course you base your belief on so-called holy writ, largely inspired by Yahweh himself, it is hardly surprising that, based on his fundamental character, he will encourage you to believe these things. In effect: "He would say that wouldn't he."

If instead you cared to base your opinion on knowledge and experience, you would come inescapably to quite a different conclusion. And if, in addition, you expanded your experience to encompass other deities, you would understand my point.

Ah, but your own belief prevents you from knowing the allegedly unknowable. I guess you're stuck then in relying on belief in someone else's say-so.

I'm not going to persuade you otherwise. I'm not even going to try. Only you will do that or not do that, depending on the risk you take to know instead of just believe.

Until then, I would respectfully suggest that you speak only from knowledge and experience and not from belief.

 

[Dogberry_Old]

My familiarity with the Norse Pantheon is only via my reading, as with the Graco-Roman, as with the Ahbrahmic singular Diety. The only real acquintance that I have with spirits is with the lesser more natural & helpful kind. They, unlike the ones that you mentioned, do not try to extract bargains .

Like I said elsewhere... the best advice to me was to do something useful with my life.. all spiritual voyaging reaches an end at some point. This varies with different people. It also has different conclusions.. witness the differing ends of Ghandi & Aleister Crowley.

My voyaging ended ( for the most part ) when I reached the point where I could fully experience epiphany, the fullness of grace, reconciliation with mortality, & most importantly, channeling anger into constructive things. Beyond that, I have no desire to meet any diety/ God, unless it were to be purely out of academic curiosity. This, as I am sure that you will agree, is insufficient reason to dabble in these things.

Dog

 

[Huitzilopochtli]

That vision of America as the great deliverer... the all too omnipotent jusitifier; if only you knew what bloodshed was spread in order to create a system... if only you where to remember where our origins are...

Starlifter listen to Simon.. by your own definition every american (I mean every inhabitant of this continent) that has descendence from some european source is accountable for the genocide that was perpretated against natives from this continent, and could justifiably be called a terrorist... ... yes that is you.
and me.

Peace is a long process. There is nothing easy in it.
But it only requires one thing... our will..

If it is our will to kill
or to ammend

That is what defines the human world... will...

It is our task as human beings to focus it towards general well being, not toward hipocrytal "justice sword weilding"...

btw I can produce data to back all this up..


[

But that's where it stops. The Afghanis are not in general victims of Western oppression. In fact, perhaps the best thing that could happen to the general populace of Afghanistan is for the western world to blow the place up because we have a history of cleaning up our messes when we're done - e.g. Japan.

This is the kind of hogwash you've been fed all your life my brothers.. did you clean up your "mess" in sioux, apache, tojolabal, tzental land?, in El Salvador, Haiti, Somalia, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Irak, Vietnam, Cuba, Panama, Kurdistan, Corea, Argentina, Libia, Palestinia, Nicaragua ?
Just to mention a few places where the "west" didn't care but about it's own interests, where people where left to support totalitarian Killer governments fostered by the US.. remeber Nixon when he spoked about the oppresion that was perpretated in latin america and specifically in Chile that was backed up by the US: "He may be a son of a *****, but he is OUR son of a *****".... (speaking of Pinochet.) That would also fall in a definiton of terrorist.



It is only our will that can change the world....




Aqui se queda la clara
La entrañable transparencia
de tu querida presencia
¡Comandante Che Guevara!

Oscar Chavez

 

[joespaniel]

In Somolia, the US and many other nations tried to give the people tools to rebuild their country in the way they saw fit.

One man, Aideed, with greed and lust for power, f*cked it up for the rest of the Somolis. The effort was made on the part of the US and the world.