[BTS] A very late ALC attempt - IV. Mehmed

[Choeimok]

After a long break, it's time to get back A bit rusty, but I recently had a Prince game as Shaka that was actually way too easy. Unless this turns out to be a screwy start like Catherine, Monarch should be manageable or at least not boring.

Mehmet is the leader for this game, on a Great Plains type map. NVNHNE as usual (NHNE being standard, and I really don't like the vassal implementation in this game... the whole mechanic is so broken)

Mehmed has a multitude of reasons to be considered a high-tier leader, maybe even the best without the ever-overpowered FIN trait, those being:

Expansive/Organized
Wheel/Agriculture
Janissary: Musketman with +25% against Melee, Archers and Cavalry
Hammam: Aqueduct with an added +2

Strong starting techs opening up a direct route to either Pottery or AH. The only combination I'd prefer would be Agri+Mining, which is rare.
Both traits are pretty good for sustaining expansion - cheap Granaries and Courthouses are core infrastructure. Reduced civic maintenance, cheaper workers, free base health, what's not to love? He also gets cheaper Lighthouses and Harbors, those are probably going to be of limited utility given the map type.
As for the uniques, the Hamman doesn't get reduced by Expansive (somehow I tend to believe Aqueducts do) so it's kind of expensive at 100 ... but beats Colosseums and Temples as far as per gained go, with the as an added bonus - suddenly it doesn't look that pricey anymore. I'm not familiar with Great Plains, but I think it's probably similar to Oasis in that it has lots of dry land with a rather narrow selection of resources (some of which are abundant), leading to city growth issues. The Hammam might really shine here.
The Janissary... feels like the weakest link in the package on paper, turning a bad unit into a decent one. I never used them in practice. The player is probably intended to play historically and beeline Cannons in order to use Janissaries, otherwise I could see Longbows beating them hammer-for-hammer, maybe even Knights are preferable vs LBs with less power but speed and a better First Strike situation.


As for the start:

A bit too many hills to be worthy of the map name, but it looks dry enough. We're starting on a Desert tile and that is Desert Hill Cow (Buffalo?) right there... a 2/3/1 tile when improved?
Not sure if that is the southern end of the map or if those are some odd-looking hills, either.

The Warrior is placed a bit unfortunately - right now, I'd mostly care about the west - the river probably has at least two more Floodplains (NNW and NWW). I will probably move him 1N on the cow tile as 1NE offers no real sight benefits.

As for settling... I'm always uncomfortable those lake-but-1-off-the-river starts. Going on the PH 1W might be nice, but loses a turn and the Cow. Even this crippled cow is still an above-average tile, and I'd have to check the health situation. That Expansive might be helpful right away here. Early Pottery seems appealing with all those FPs and our starting techs, then probably Mining, AH... Writing? Just from the way things look right now.
1 NE would grab the river without losing a turn, but seems very likely be a worse long-term city unless the Warrior reveals something spectacular (green river Grain tile please?).

Link to summarizing ALC Thread: Here.

I'll also need to fiddle with those BUG settings, some things are still looking a bit weird here.

 

[AcaMetis]

Definitely looks like the southern end of the map to me. As for moving I'd say Warrior 1N, then settler 1NW and 1N? Could still move 1E next turn and settle 2N of starting position, or move/settle more west if the Warrior's second move reveals complete junk further north?

 

[Choeimok]

It has to be the map end - not only does it look more cut-off than other screenshots, I can't hold-right-mouse-over. On the same basis, we don't appear to be close to either the eastern nor western end.

Spoiler Just moved the Warrior, still a bit indecisive :

I did send my Warrior onto the cow tile, and he did reveal a couple more useful tiles up north... but resource-wise, this is still looking a bit poor.

So what are the options here?
- SIP: 3 FPs (1N2E really looks like a Flood Plain, might be Grass though), DH Cow, 4 PHs (2 wet), lake, rest is plains.
- 2N: 4 FPs, 3 PHs (1 wet), DH Cow, Lake, 1 wet Grass, 1 desert, rest is plains. Further off the map border.
- 1W: 3 FPs, 2 PHs (1 wet), the Desert and no Cow, hoping for further useful tiles in the western darkness... but it gets that sweet 2 capital tile.
- 1NE: 3FPs, 3 PHs (1 wet), DH Cow, 1 Grassland (probably wet), 1 Forest (probably also wet flat Grassland), Lake and Desert, rest as always.

In the middle two options I should definitely move my Settler 1 NW first as you suggested. 2N1W doesn't seem that appealing unless 1NW were to reveal something good that 2N would miss.
What I don't like is the idea of going onto the northeastern dry PHs... although the Eastern river might have more good tiles, that's as much of a gamble as going west, except with no river.

I might actually like just 1NE where the warrior started the best - gets the river, further off the map end than SIP, doesn't lose a turn, only 2N has a slightly better Cottage situation with that extra FP, the really interesting part is the forest - even if it's just one.

 

[lymond]

It's in the Southwest corner...just to the E of the very SW section of the map that has a lot of floodplains...no food in that area. Unless you luck out on a flood plain corn.

 

[Fippy]

edit nm, map end there lol..
but Desert hill cows are still irrelevant imo

..sooo i would forget SIP, useless compared to 1w.

 

[Choeimok]

lymond: I never played the script before, only peeked into it - of course the further west you go, the drier it gets, but I wasn't sure if this is southwest or just south-center? Anyway, I'm already pretty glad to have an Expansive leader here...

Fippy: Unless I'm getting it wrong, they're a... food neutral 3 tile. Not spectacular, but still among the better tiles available here. The +1 doesn't require . I am, however still interested in researching AH early most likely, probably before Mining, because there seems to be a good chance I'll be having barb troubles, and given the terrain, Chariots seem like an attractive approach to deal with that. If I have horse, of course.



As for settling, I am probably going to take the 1NE position. The lategame Levee seems worth the dead tile, the extra Floodplain from 2N doesn't beat having the grass forest and losing a turn, and I may not be that interested in settling further west just yet, even if it wasn't nearly guaranteed to be the shorter end of the map, it's just a massive gamble.

 

[AcaMetis]

I think I'd move the settler 2NW, and if there's nothing tasty in the fog move 1E and settle NNW of starting position. 1NE of the warrior is a good spot for another city.

 

[Swordnboard]

food neutral 3 tile

Actually only 1/3/1 I think, so just about like a grassland hill with a mine on it.

Yes, running across the map with the settler for a few turns is a bit of a gamble, but this start is total garbage as it is, so IMO you don't have much to lose by exploring some more before committing to a junky capital. Also, there's a good chance game will be over before levees really come into play, so I wouldn't consider that at all in your decisions.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 12 / 2520 BC :

Thought I would just be grabbing a river, but no, turns out there's more to that eastern Floodplain That.. improves the position quite massively. Drawback is that contrary to expectation, that unforested grass tile is dry.
I was planning Pottery -> AH -> Mining, but in this case, I probably want to switch that around?
Pottery is 10 turns, AH is 12.
60 for the worker, and this is where it gets confusing.

.. because I'm not sure if the Expansive worker building bonus gets applied to food converted to hammers. Based on this indicator, it doesn't - I would need actual hammers.
So if I get the border pop on turn 5 after working the floodplain, that's 2/3 of that left when switching over to the Cow FP. Assuming I don't get the bonus, that'd be 8 more turns for those 40 hammers, getting the worker on turn... 13. One more to reach the tile. Improving it will be slowed down by ... was it 25% with a minimum of 1 (since roads are 3) or 50%? At 3 or 4 turns base, that's 5 or 6 turns... by the time I reach another floodplain, I will definitely have Pottery in the bag.
Also, since the DH Cow actually is a 0/1/1un improved, with only +1 from pasture according to mouseover - looks like Desert Hill is -1 rather than 0. So... ew. That alone definitely wouldn't be worth going directly for AH. But I shouldn't complain, given the other Cow.

While the west does reveal another cow (that would have been just missed by settling the PH - but going 2NW would have found it), I'm pretty glad I didn't take that chance now. So many brown tiles. I also believed that grass tile to be a Floodplain, wrong. (and I also didn't see the southern grassland, thought that to be a plain...)
The border pop confirms though: 8 more turns, and no EXP bonus from .
Should I have run a calculation on warrior+growth first? Probably. Now it's a bit late. *

For a moment, I thought "Did I put on unrestricted leaders?" - but no, Joao is directly in the west according to minimap. That iron cross belongs to a different guy, visible in the scoreboard.

Rather than investigate his position further, I moved north in a crescent... which, with the advent of AH, reveals some animals. Not sure if I'll want to take that fight behind the river or avoid the lion by moving 1SE, maybe even 1NW. Freddy's capital must be close to this since that is the direction he came from, but no sight of his borders yet. 1NE of the plains horse on the river bend looks pretty nice.

Worker finishes in 1. I've not put any actual research into Pottery yet, but it looks the most appealing.

* let's see... 15 for the guy, 22 for growth. 15 in 5 turns means growth after 7.
At that point, I probably don't have an interest in finishing the warrior before getting my worker out -> 51 per turn means 10 turns for the worker at size 2, finishing exactly 4 turns later on turn 17.
If I do finish the warrior intending to grow to size 3... is that also 22 food or 24? Don't remember right now. 1 overflow, 3 /turn, that's 7 or 8 more turns, almost exactly when finishing the warrior, maybe one earlier if the growth cost is 22 as well. That's 7 or 8 more turns, starting to build the worker on turn 14 or 15 respectively with one extra surplus , should take... 9 turns. So turn 24, or 23 if it's cheaper and I delay finishing the warrior. By that time, I should have finished the pasture (turn 20 approximately?), grown to size 2 and be almost done cottaging the other Floodplain using the current approach. Loses out on some from the delayed growth, but that seems worth it, and I'll get it back and more by having the first cottage 10 turns earlier.
So, I kind of decided this impulsively at first, but I do like Worker->Warrior a lot better than Warrior->Worker here.

 

[Choeimok]

I think I'd move the settler 2NW, and if there's nothing tasty in the fog move 1E and settle NNW of starting position. 1NE of the warrior is a good spot for another city.

NNW wouldn't have been bad actually. 3 FPs and a tile I believed to be one, I would have seen the plains cow making it beat 2N (previously it would have just given up that northern grass river tile for more brown plains), for the price of... less hills. Not that I have the food to actually work those hills, anyway.

Actually only 1/3/1 I think, so just about like a grassland hill with a mine on it.

Yes, running across the map with the settler for a few turns is a bit of a gamble, but this start is total garbage as it is, so IMO you don't have much to lose by exploring some more before committing to a junky capital. Also, there's a good chance game will be over before levees really come into play, so I wouldn't consider that at all in your decisions.

DH Cow: Yeah, I eventually noticed that as well. Apart from the possibility of trading that -as it turns out, surplus- Cow away (but given the map theme, I wouldn't be surprised if Cows are like Deer on Boreal here), it actually seems inferior to the mine - the mine could at least have or pop metals underneath...

Settler exploring: I don't think I've ever wandered for more than 1-2 turns. Is that actually a thing people do? I mean, even with the FP cow which will be an amazing tile, the capital is still probably easily below-average - decent until maybe size 10, after that...

Levee: Of course, most of the game happens without one - but here, 1NE compared to SIP grabbed the opportunity to have it if things get that far without really giving up a lot in the direct comparison (unless the two southern dark tiles would have had a resource worth working... or something like copper on the western PH I moved away from)... and all the somewhat appealing further away options would have been on the river as well. So this motivated the choice.

 

[Fippy]

Yep can see what tiles will give when improved, with mouseover.
Cow pastures always give +1 , and your screenie showed that desert cows are 0

Worker first was certainly right (no exp bonus, but still just 13t with super-fp cows ),
unless you would play worker stealing style. But Monach AIs start with none i think?

Pottery for fp cottages yup, farms are not needed now with super cow.

 

[Swordnboard]

Settler exploring: I don't think I've ever wandered for more than 1-2 turns. Is that actually a thing people do? I mean, even with the FP cow which will be an amazing tile, the capital is still probably easily below-average - decent until maybe size 10, after that...

The FP cow really changes a lot. The capital you have is good enough in that it can "escape" by building some reasonably fast settlers to claim better land. But without that tile, the city really is so terrible that I would consider wandering, even if it meant settling on T3 or 4. On more "normal" mapscripts, where you are guaranteed food and no deserts, wandering is almost never necessary, but great plains can give you a start without a single resource, so that changes things a bit.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 26 / 2960 BC :

The lion is clearly screwing with me for the decision to not fight him by taking the scenic route. There is, however, another AI closeby. Probably Gigi, maybe France? I'm not in a hurry to be meeting the guy just yet though, slowly heading southeast seems more interesting. Buddhism is founded as I start to work the pasture.

The brown-ish grass looks much greener up here than back home in Istanbul in comparison, nonwithstanding our border color... and I finally find Freddy's border. I also did end up fighting that lion eventually as it kept handing out around the area, but at least in the forest. 1.7 health left, enough to continue exploring without being too worried to get eaten by a wolf.
This is also the turn the pasture finishes - growth in 1, warrior in 4. Somehow I'm pretty interested in grabbing a Settler fairly soon.

Turn 19, Istanbul grows. Warrior in 3, Growth in 4 (it is 24 cost, so maybe my very vague memory of 20+2*size wasn't all that wrong). I realize I could have put the worker overflow into something else, bit late now. A settler at this size would be 12 turns... I can overflow 2 into a Settler, build a Warrior for 1 turn to grow and then build the settler slightly faster with that new tile I'll be able to work... the main benefit actually is the commerce, I suppose. Briefly thought about mining the river PH instead of getting the second cottage, but I probably won't have Mining by then - and FP farms don't seem like a great idea here.
The only option to actually get a higher effective production tile than the Cottage would actually be the Desert Hill Cow at 4.

Next turn, I also notice that I messed up because I've reached the FP tile 1W of the capital that is to be cottaged without having Pottery yet... Gah. Have to put a turn into a road that might have been better spent starting the pasture or a road to the north.


Pottery finishes, I start on Mining, it seems like the only viable option. I mean, Fishing for that one Lake? Mysticism or Writing this early? HBR?

Only two hammers of overflow. If I put them into the Settler and then grow next turn rather than putting them in the warrior and grow immediately, I trade... 1 for 1 if I'm not mistaken.
My production should be 7+3 starting the turn after growth, I'll have 11 into the Settler if I overflow, 89 missing -> 9 more turns after that, 11 in total.
If I overflow into the Warrior and grow, then switch: exactly 10 turns to build, plus one for growth -> also 11. This would be stronger by exactly that one , but does production converted from overflow into later builds?
Let's see... my warrior needed 3 more turns at turn 19 and overflowed 2, so 15+2-3*3=8. Before that, I was producing just 1 from the city tile. This is where I realize the whole calculation is completely useless because the 60 Worker was created off 5*4+8*5, exactly 60. But I'll sacrifice the 1 to try the overflow twice variant. You guys all know this already, but this way it's more fun.
Fun? Yes. I would never, ever do these crazy calculations in a normal game, but when trying to justify every step, it actually is quite fun... even if it's the type of stuff nobody reads or wants to.

Anyway, the previous worker blunder at least allows me to improve the offside FP first. Since most of by better tiles are on the other side of the area, that might at least save a turn in movement later on.

Harder question is, where do I even move that warrior. I can move him east and then use as a settler escort and have the injured guy double-back to the north, discover some more land there and meet the blue AI. Or I can have him find Joao and have the other guy clear the path for the Settler. But there's a lion in the west with little defensive terrain, that seems like unnecessarily risking 15 very early. Even if the southwestern FP spot does look at least kind of intruiging as a moderate commerce city.

I wonder how distant that discovery may have been. His land looks really crappy.
There also is a lion in the east now, so that decision was useless. Oh well, it's the more likely direction to have better settling land.

To my very astonishment, I actually managed to do the production queue switcheroo without skipping a turn too much. 9 more turns as expected. The lion could have attacked me over the river (my warrior is standing 2NW of the capital behind the river bend), but actually chose not to. Weird.

First cottage - and the East doesn't actually look that bad. The current warrior position might be another... decent commerce city. The Clam certainly is very welcome.

A first dotmap attempt at the soon-to-be three-state-region.
Purple: Long-term the strongest city on the PH with double Cows, and probably the best Frederick-deterrent - this leaves him with the pretty bad Spice/Stone location. Problem: I'll be in need of Mysticism, badly. Both to discourage settling in my face and get all the tiles.
Yellow: Nearly the same, but trades the better northern tiles for horse in first ring. In how much of a hurry to get horses am I? Despite the flatlands, the AI concentration seems high enough that barbs will likely be manageable with warriors.
Green: looks terrible but has decent production and is the least likely to run into very early issues. 1NW would be another option, delaying the horse for an overall much better city (but then again, greater need for Mysticism).
Red: Looks a bit weird, but denies Sumeria/France* at least 3 FPs and both of those horses. 1S might be stronger to do the same thing while exchanging the grass tile for the second horse with less cultural trouble.
* that's already a 50% chance of creative... and the blue looks dark enough to not be France, I think. Pretty sure it's going to be Sumeria, just not entirely.

Now, I could settle the Clam city or even the one towards Joao, but while this has lower maintenance and roads, what then? I'll be completely boxed in or snaking towards the east, whatever might be there. I feel like the push north and later filling in those spots is better right now.

Tech-wise, I'm very tempted to finish that one turn of Mining and then go straight for Mysticism - even if I maybe want to go HBR* or something after that. Probably-Gilgamesh is probably creative (if it isn't him, it's probably Louis or Mr. Stonehenge-lover), and Freddy has a religion - that northern city will be losing tiles quickly... unless they have better settling options in their backyards and leave those two spots to me. This also saves the fishing detour.

* the thing is, the AI lands I can currently see or guesstimate look just as bad as mine, so I don't necessarily want to take these over just yet. Depends heavily on how much and what land my direct East offers. Writing would be nicer for Library and OB scouting, maybe even Writing before BW.


My preferred route, if the AIs don't settle faster of course, would be to go for Purple+Mysticism and sit on quite the production beast for the rest of the game. My southern land is not going to be producing a whole lot, I will need it if I'll want to stand a chance.
Then BW or maybe even Writing as getting the Hindu spread might be beneficial. Blue guy can't be the Buddhist I think - that must have been a Mysticism starter.

Worker: Cottage the second Floodplain. By the time I'd finish the Desert Cow (5 turns to build), the benefit for the Settler is nothing. After that, probably road the northern plains tile for the Settler, then improve the Cow? I'm not sure if cottaging dry grass is better than cottaging river plains (it probably is, slightly), and the Grass tile is in an awkward position I have little incentive to go to as long as I lack BW. Could mine the riverside PH rather than getting a third cottage...


The currently visible portion of the south for reference:

The lion city with the current state of information is an obvious filler / act of spite to deny at least some land from Joao, and the Clams one... I don't see it as that critical (settling it too early would be an easy route to get boxed in with no strategic resource) and even though I'm warming up to Mysticism, Fishing seems like a horrible tech detour. So it would compete with Istanbul for workers without really contributing anything yet, working empty Floodplains. I'm not going to divert the supercow to the second city.
Both would be commerce cities although I could turn the Clam one into a (miserable) GP "farm". Istanbul is not going to be able to utilize those hills to a full extent for a long time as food will run out quickly, I am going to be desperately starved for production - this is why I want the purple city so badly. (where I would go Monument while growing on the FP -> Worker at size 2 after one filler (warrior?) turn)

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 49 / 2040 BC :

Of course I could have done the same thing yesterday, but for this one I made a quick world builder setup... the river crossing completely negates the benefit of a single road. No need to do that. To think so far as to place the road in WB as well or at least give myself TW after not randoming it as a start tech? No such thing.

Back to the normal game.

There's Giggles - so no such thing as a non-creative Nappy or CDG. He actually found Istanbul before I (officially) found him.

Again, he's not the only one met in a single turn... who'd be more fitting for this map script than him? And yes, the Warrior managed to at least not get mauled completely by the second lion while already having been injured - maybe fortifying for that one turn actually made the difference. Woodsman seems beyond useless, I think Combat is a no-brainer here. Better promote now than dying to a Wolf from the fog.

Yeesh, these cats aren't here to play. Now my planned settler escort is gravely injured while the other guy is threatened by yet another one already.

So, knowing that the single-tile road is useless (and so is completing the 1/3 road on the current tile) before Construction, what do I actually do with this guy right now? Honestly, I like the 131 better than the 041 alternative, and if I go over to the grass tile at this point, I lose movement because BW will still take a few turns.

Alternatively, I could built a riverside Plains cottage... that has 1 less total yield for now and right now, I feel like Commerce is the least thing I'm short of. Guess the Cow it is.

Settler in 1. Undecided between BW and Writing. OB and early libraries actually seem quit nice - I have a food surplus and not a lot of nice tiles. BW for the one forest seems like overkill... and I'm almost certainly going to have at least one source of horse. I'll start on Writing first.

The queued-up Warrior, that I do intend to finish, by the way still has not decayed any hammers. And I'll actually complete him and grow on the same turn. Totally planned out that way from the start!

Even the pasture finished on the same turn, as 2 of the known Civs start to settle their second cities. Oporto is not in the area I have discovered according to right-click-hold-down-settler-scouting (what do you call this?), so probably north of his capital. My settling party is in place but can only settle next turn. Pulling back the injured warrior (he still needs 5 turns to heal in neutral lands) to serve as a guard so the new, full-health one can explore.

Now, what do I actually want to do with my capital and worker?
The latter I could send north and hope for him not to get eaten if anything spawned in the turn or so I didn't fogbust it (although Gilga has an Archer poking around the area). Second city will need him. That honestly seems more appealing than the currently available improvements in Istanbul.

As for my build... as mentioned, I kind of want a Library and probably run 2 scientists at size 5. I can build a Warrior, Worker or Granary... Granary seems like the least profitable out of these right now. Worker would be nice if I push the other guy up north, but I still need fogbusters and coincidentally the Warrior . Overflow is a single hammer, kind of negligible. Speaking of which, I kind of forgot to check if and what the Settler overflowed into the warrior I just completed.
It's turn 37, according to the above screenshot S finished on 33.. definitely not the 9 combined + "hammers". What a waste. Should have taken the 1 extra commerce.


I think I actually want at least one Warrior and Worker before going Library... I'll finish Writing, go BW, build the Worker first and push my first one up north. Then get a spawnbuster and then the Library... Or is that too early? I want City 2 to take over the Settler building role for the later BCs expansion phase, but City 3 will probably require having its settler built in the capital until City 2 is ready.

Also, Writing will not actually finish in 3 turns, as I'll be starting to run a deficit. The question is, does any of the land available justify prioritizing the Settler, or do I just want to go Library and then HBR or Construction? Probably won't be able to push out a Chariot to scout AI lands before having to make that decision.

Overthinking to the point of actually getting confused, but I'll actually take the decision and not make another incredibly short turnset. Worker north, second Worker queued. Guard goes West to discover and finish exploring that floodplainsy patch west of my capital. Injured warrior goes directly to fogbust the east/clam area, maybe getting 1-2 turns of healing in my territory. As for tech...

Staying on Writing is mainly hoping for early religion spread, while I could shove in BW before completing the last third mostly to discover where metal is than actually use it... although the 2 forests (1 near new city) would be well-suited for some Settlers or Workers. Slavery actually seems like the least appealing aspect right now. Researching both at 100% right now takes 13 (BW is 10) turns, I'll get extra from 1 cottage growth in 3 turns and 2 from city+river tile should beat the maintenance up north... I hope. Let's say 15 turns as I'll need to make some money at 0% first. That's... not enough to get the Library directly after the Warrior. But I can still put a bit into BW and finish Writing when/if I decide to soon build the library or actually have a trade route with Freddy. (he probably doesn't have Sailing?)

Gilgamesh founds his second city, but it's somewhere else. Now Frederick is the only one with one city. The maintenance is higher than I thought at almost 3 gold rather than one point something, and I'm not sure from where I got the idea that the Monument only would take 7 or 8 turns while growing - 30/2 is 15... Gah! Defo a blunder, but I will commit now.

As the worker is about to finish, I can finish Writing in a single turn (I think I mindlessly put in one research turn between the saving), but also BW is only 7 at this point - even though my 0% gain rate is only now back to the same 16 I had before settling Edirne. So, might as well finish and sit on it.

Now, for fun I could go directly HBR without BW, problem with that... I'll still need boring old Hunting and Archery, and that's disgusting. BW seems simply more useful even if I have little incentive to want Slavery except for the Clam city.

Now I have a problem though: a bunch of overflow I didn't account for, 4 aren't the world but not too shabby. I... think I'll want to overflow that into a Settler, then slow build the Warrior.

My Worker has essentially two options: the road to Edirne would be too long right now, I'm going to want to either build another Cottage or ... prepare a road for City 3 in the East or West. If I cottage the grass tile, that's better food-wise but overall less yield. Also 2 I'll be 1 or 2 turns to early to start chopping that Forest (into probably a Settler). So I'm going to want to actually Cottage the Plains tile 1NW of the city. I need a fifth tile to work before growing, and I'm liking this better than a Mine - I will have to run Plains cottages in this city anyway even if they are frowned upon. On the upside, 1FP+1Plains Cottages beats 2 river grasslands cottages in yield while having the same food output. And 1NW is the best tile for a road given the hill distribution.


... and rats. 2 turns later I notice that I put one turn too many into the Settler, delaying my growth unnecessarily. Now I'll have the cottage idle for one more turn after debating for so long whether to build it or not...

Here's Joao. Kind of hilly actually, mountain in his FC. Now, where is his second city?
I also did OB with him and Freddy, but Giggles and Bull hate each other's guts and I have no real interest in seeing their lands yet.

There are enough walkable tiles in the west to assume he has room for one more city over there. If this is as floodplainsy as reputation has it, it's probably where he placed his #2.

Now what? Unless there are some new revelations in 3 turns, the brown denial city is probably not worth going for yet. Its decent tiles are too far west to be helping out the capital. I still kind of want a road, as I'm going to be capped - and this road can go 2 directions. In fact, those absolutely starved spices are the only source I've seen at all so far. Monarchy might be in order...

Somehow the realization just how much of a miscalculation this Monument was is hitting harder and harder every time I look at this city. Unless I work one of these hills, I'll almost be size 4 when that finishes... And then 10 more turns until the culture pop. I wonder what the grey guy next door is doing though, something is taking him a long time. Wonders?

Another : the library is cheaper than a Settler, but doesn't get the conversion. In that time, I can almost build Stonehenge. So, Writing before BW was just dumb. I'll have to overflow into the Settler, grow with a Warrior and overthrow that Library plan, takes way too long.

That looks arid even by this map's standards. Why would he settle that? Good tiles in the backyard, or a strategic resource? I really have to double-back to fogbust with this guy though, barbs should come any time soon.


BW finishes, no copper absolutely anywhere. And this is where I don't have a plan anymore, not even a bad one like before.

Tech... I could still opt to kill someone, in which case the HBR route seems nicer than the Construction route. I'm going to want Monarchy, but if there's one early tech I hate, it's Monarchy. Disgusting requirements. Leads to Feudalism . AIs love it but when you need it the most, sometimes they don't.
Mathematics? Too early for Hammams, not worth the beakers for the 20 extra from my whopping 2 forests. And, of course, Construction isn't that interesting.
Fishing, no. The Clam city is not #3. Even if it can help with capital cottages a little bit, this site is uncontested.
Which leaves, if I don't directly want to go HBR, Alphabet. I don't have good trade bait and AIs might be researching it, at least right now none of the 4 have it.



War or peace? I'm fairly certain Freddy is building a wonder, his second city has been delayed for a long time and he doesn't have that much power. His capital probably has rubbish production values, which is why that's taking so long. Gilga is protective and Joao is in the corner, SB is somewhere way off north. His unit probability is fairly low, he really is making himself look like an easy target, although not necessarily a nice one (again, what we know of his lands...)

Builds/Cities: 15 turns for the Library is a lot... this is why I'm quite convinced Writing at this time was a moderate or maybe almost big mistake - I didn't even get a TR from Freddy in Edirne out of it, at most a bit of diplomacy. Even if there is no copper. So Istanbul...
it's at its cap, I haven't adopted Slavery yet and am still fairly dubious about whether I want that. I still want that Library eventually, and might actually have to get a mine to expedite that... or whip it? There's also the option to chop, which I probably want to use for the very settler I've already partially built. Right now, my worker is a bit out of position, having built a road 1N of the plains cottage. 2 turns to reach the forest, 3 more to chop, S finishes in 7 and I don't have a move right now. I could adopt Slavery now or at least after the Monument finishes and "gain" the turn to chop him instead.

Edirne: Grows in 2, Monument in 4 but actually in 3 because I'll be working a 2 plains forest after growth. Farming those FPs is taking a good while at 7 turns per farm. I'll probably want another Worker, or a Warrior before that if it means I can grow again - probably the Worker first, there are many interesting tiles around and I'll need a third one for my third city anyway. Hope Freddy keeps building his stupid wonder nice and slowly so I can get before he gets any ideas to settle near this city. First prio to hook up after border pop in 13 turns (ugh, I miscalculated this so badly... ) will be the Horse, then Cows. Meantime will probably see a mine getting built on that wet hill... or a vestigial road down south that I'll need for the Horse anyway. With no Sailing, I think the river will not provide it to Edirne. Although Istanbul has "+1 from bonuses" that E. lacks - is that the equivalent of "We enjoy our healthy resources", in this case roadless riverside desert Cows?

Settling: I want to get out that third Settler before going into any sort of the above shenanigans. Options are the southern, "brown" city option with 2 FPs, a bit of grass and a Plains Cow as a marginal to moderate commerce... thing. There is the Clam city. I can build a pretty bad helper city in the desert north of Istanbul to also put cottages on the northern part of that river, low priority. What's probably more interesting is the North:

Gilgamesh does not appear to have settled towards the "red" spot. I may still change that depending what's in the fog, but that would be my favorite right now. I'd rather have the western Floodplains than the Cow. Problem is, what does this city actually give me? The land is decent in comparison to what else there is, but it's just another okay-ish commerce spot with the added issue of being somewhat close to a CRE capital (while Berlin is the Hindu holy city, it's at least a bit further from Edirne). It's really about denial, like the "brown" one against Joao, except this one has horses.
Then, there's the far northern option that I haven't actually dotmapped because there's a bit of an awkward situation with that western cow, that's just in a bad spot. My interest in Stone right now is very limited, and that city would be a low-key spot at best. What I actually care about is the Silk. Calendar is a big detour, but just securing the silk would be... fairly good? Worth the maintenance and opportunity cost? Meh.


Sorry for this very rambly and confused turnset. Some downright dumb moves in there, and probably some more that I didn't even notice. At least it was the fun kind of dumb due to my consistent attempts to overanalyze... so far.

 

[Fippy]

Umm your detail level makes me look like micro beggar oO

Why are you playing Monarch

 

[Choeimok]

Because I'm pretty rubbish despite the attempts at micro That isn't my normal playstyle either though, without the writeup which kind of gives me the feeling of having to justify every single move (and having been slightly drunk when playing today's part, since that was completely overboard with both the attention to detail and the blunders) I probably would have played 15 minutes for this amount of turns, not 7 hours.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 58 / 1860 BC :

Ok, so... my land is garbage, I've decided to take the gamble of hoping for something better, if that's not the AI's land than maybe the land behind them, and going for HBR. Worst case, I'll use it as trade fodder. Shame how Frederick seems like both my best target and best prospect for a friend.

Frederick finally got out that Settler, without having built a wonder. (SH is still open)
What did he do then? Granary and Barracks? Not sure. But Hamburg is not near Edirne, much to my relief. Anyway, I found Gilga's second city. So much for that red dot.

Also decided that I will want to chop the Settler, I'll just queue a filler for the meantime.

Tee hee. It's official, saving up for that tech push makes us #1.


Now, my filler build could either be Stonehenge for money or the Library, I'll go for the Library.

Copper! In a terrible location bound for famine that will soon be swallowed by Holy City borders, but the flute-busting Prussian doesn't have it yet. This warrior also went a bit too far, but I will scout 1NE at least if he doesn't get eaten IBT.

... and... he got eaten. 11% odds. SB has 3 cities now, I get OB with Gilga to scout him, changed by plan for that remaining wandering warrior.
Edirne finally finishes that Monument and starts a Worker.

Uruk is on a hill. Eridu looked terrible at first, until I saw that tile... which makes it even more annoying that he insisted to pick up those bad tiles in the west.
Also, I appear to have gotten the capital's location wrong before...

My Settler finishes. This tile is very likely to hold Joao's third city.
I'll adopt Slavery next turn when my Worker in Edirne will follow. Istanbul will grow to 6 unfortunately.

There should be a city on this tile as well. Likely to be Hamburg - or that could be Sitting Bull.


Where do I settle though? I'll go through the options again:

1. Ensures Joao will be confined to his corner. Role: Cottages, not much else to do here. Maybe can help building HAs (still probably against Freddy) if I mine that hill.

2. Very similar mediocre site to 1, trading distance maintenance and Gilga--proximity for those Horses. Not looking good unless Eridu were to be razed. Variations to include the PC or the southern horse are possible and probably better. The foggy tile should be an FP, which is why I wanted this in the first place.

3. The north. I must have gotten the Hamburg(or something from SB) position wrong before, because the river grass hill 2N of the floodplain is settleable (which means it's not on a hill, and neither is Berlin). So this is the best city to fill the space I can think of, unless Hamburg were to be razed so I could grab the spice. Pretty obviously... hammer-oriented and without much prospects of growing big. Not that I have the cap for that anyway. This city would be kind of far-flung, but could help with building units pretty quickly, stagnating at 4 with a farm and 3 mines.

4. The East. That junk city securing Copper (and Marble) is probably the worst option out of these. Freddy's Palace+HC will eventually swallow the copper tile without much this city would be able to do, or maybe he will settle the spot by himself before that. *

5. ... and the Clam, which I want to use for GP eventually. I don't have Fishing and don't want it yet, so its job would be to prepare some cottages for the capital for now, maybe whip something off farmed FPs. I might actually give it that Cow due to the issues, too. The eastern flank is kind of exposed to barbs in general (although I still haven't seen any), due to the death of my warrior that wandered a bit too far and got a bit unlucky.

My order of preference right now would probably be Brown (Joao)>Orange(Stone)>>Red(Gilga)>Pink(Clam)>>>Yellow(Copper) dot. But I'm really not sure.


Edit... * He has to be my war target though. Gilgamesh has terrible land and the most unfavorable traits for an attack possible; Joao is already boxed in, especially if I settle the brown site.

One option I forgot would be a cottage helper city directly north of Istanbul, probably 4N or 4N1E in the desert, but that should be in order far later.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 80 / 875 BC :

So the thing with the Settling... the northern site is way stronger for the current situation, except that it would have... probably at least 3.5 maintenance per turn. It doesn't interlock BFCs with the city I assume to be Hamburg, and it doesn't touch Uruk's third ring, so that is nice. All the good stuff is in the first ring, but I could settle 1S to have the PH city tile and cow in first ring, the price is that it's very close to Edirne (barely matters, given my happy cap - really, that is the biggest issue with my economic perspectives by far) and a few of the northern hills.

Zoomed a bit further out here, but those two dark tiles both look like riverside plains hills.
The tiles that would be in the BFC south are pretty bad, but I think I will take this over the initial idea anyway - and over the city near Joao - he has more space than previously expected in his backyard (those 12 tiles my warrior could walk to the west), the site is mediocre even if better than the hill range north of it, I will expect him not to take it right away and if he does... oh well.
Both east and, short term, probably even north of Istanbul are stronger anyway, minus the denial value.

Several things happen in the next turn - Istanbul is now , having reached Pop 6. Edirne just finished its Worker. I have a Settler on the way...

... what better time for the anarchy turn than now? Only thing I'm not sure about, do I get during anarchy:

7, the mine finishes in one (so, this turn, since he's still showing as green). I'm going to want to slowly road downwards to . Why a Warrior when I could build a Barracks since I'm teching HBR and this is my main production city? Because I lost the eastern fogbuster/explorer and am, as previously mentioned, feeling exposed but want the Library in the capital.

So, I have either... 6 or 7 worker turns until starting the pasture as soon as expands. I'm pretty sure the +1 "bonus" in the capital is the Cow on the unroaded river tile..

... and this confirms it. Looks like he has Sailing and we're on the same river? So I don't need a road on the horse... although it is just in the direction of my capital, to which I will need a road anyway. My southern worker right now has nothing of immediate value to do anyway other than roads.

Also, is there anything you can do to not have BUG mess up special characters?

I can have the horse roaded at the time he (who is lucky that there is no barb, unlike before when I knew there was a Sumerian Archer around, this one was a bit of a gamble) is going to want to start moving off that tile - that should save a turn. I also hope there is no barb near the site of course, but my exploring warrior is closing in from the other direction... 5 turns though, so he will be a bit late. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the road does save the settler one turn, allowing him to immediately move 1NW of Edirne, I'll take it, it seems like the best course of action.

I actually managed to pay attention and have the worker from the hill finish the first road, allowing the other guy that started it to start the second one rather than just move onto the tile. Edirne did, however, not gain during anarchy - border pop is delayed even further than originally planned.

Now, do I want tp whip Istanbul? I'm not a friend of whipping when having cap issues at low size in fast growth cities like here. I'll get 54 plus some overflow, but it reduces my effective city size to 4 for 10 turns. Now, would these hammers be worth that drawback, and which tile would I forego for that? Probably the desert Cow, and the plains cottage (which just grew) for a scientist. The smaller FP cottage grows in just 1 turn, so that will be a pretty high-yield tile I will probably not want to have idle.

I need 100 , are those 3 worth not working the plains cottage? Probably yes. Just for the first GS, the rest will be born somewhere else. I don't want to go crazy with maths, but if I don't go all-out war (expecting more of a moderate conquest since Freddy looks really weak), I should benefit more from the Academy than the turns.

But if I don't whip... I trade 54+overflow+20 (just from not having the 1) for 7217 until the library slow-builds, plus whatever I do in those 3 other turns (in that case, probably 99), so overall...
Whip: gains 33 plus some overflow , 13, 21, food may not be completely true due to regrowth, too lazy to calculate that too.
Don't: gains 7 and 10 turns of Plains cottage growth
That's assuming I don't use the Grass cottage and prioritize the Scientists over the Plains cottage until accumulating 100.

Pretty clear to me after putting it in perspective...

Employed the Scientist as planned... and now what? I have 18 overflow, that's a lot. Granary is very cheap, but I already grow too fast. Barracks would be nice for horsies. I could even get a quick Warrior out, but that seems like a waste since Edirne is already building one now.

I think it's between Rax, Worker (more preemptively than anything, after all my tile working capacity is limited) or actually another Settler. Which doesn't quite suit the expansion plan, but seems like the type of thing to use overflow for. For the Barracks... Istanbul is the economic heart (well, it is the economy) and has crappy hammers as I haven't bothered to mine all those hills. Running a Scientist while building a Settler is kind of awkward, then again. It does stall my growth, which gains by lessening the waste thereof. I would like to delay growing by a few more turns, so... let's do this. After that, it can build unpromote HAs while the bulk while come from Edirne/City 3 anyway.

I'm getting more and more convinced to think HBR was a mistake and I should have gone straight for Hammams. Somehow I can't get myself to fully commit to this rather than find 1000 other things to do in the capital.


Meanwhile up north, I found a problem though...

Rats. And I just started to move my 1 star warrior in the other direction, too. Stupid blunder. Border pop in 2, so if he beelines Edirne, I might even have trouble getting a Chariot out soon enough. So much for the movement advantage. Hopefully he'll move north, seeing my Warrior or being interested more in that juicy farm-filled, almost 100% commerce-free Sumerian heartland.
The Archer cannot see my Settler if I move 1NE of Edirne as planned though, so that is what I will do in case he does wander off. If he doesn't... the lack of forest means I will have a big problem to defend. Honestly, I should have seen this coming with my planned city defender being so far off to the west when making this decision. Well, I kind of did, but now it seems more threatening than earlier.

I guess this the best move for me he could have done, except for going north, anywhere north. But that was unlikely since that appears to be where he came from. Hoping to evade him and have him wander into Gilgaland. Sadly the German Archer is too far away to help get rid of him. I should have just retreated and settled somewhere south, saves the maintenance and has less barbs. But like with the monument, too stubborn now...

... oh.

Well...
Now, do I want to hook up asap, or rather further the road back to the capital my Settler will have to take? I'm not settling those hills now, Copper or not - not with this barb around. If he moves 1SE, my security depends on Freddy's Archer... I'm not sure about that, I think he moves first, then the barb moves. I... think I will double-build the pasture.

Turn 64... fortunately he continues to chase my Warrior... I'll just keep exploring then.
Stonehenge is built, pretty late.

Strangely, I can see undiscovered Cahokia in the top cities screen, but not Berlin (which is a HC). So I assume this is an unmet Civ's doing, but not 100% sure. The unknown size 3 city is probably the Buddha HC or another CRE Civ?

First time I meet just one AI at once... coming from the north with a Scout and knows Gilga and Freddy but not SB and Joao - interesting, since I expected SB to be in the north.

In order to be #1, that city must be the unknown HC. There is only one unmet Civ anyway (which I believe to a Mysticism starter).
But then... where is Berlin, and why is Gondar on here? (CRE+Stele+Library or something?)

A bit bright, that green... is that really Ethiopia? Or Montezuma? Either way, the best land this map has shown yet, just north of these inhospitable hills.

HBR in 1 and still thinking it was a mistake to take over Alpha/Maths. Back to growth mode.

Should have seen it coming... I'm going to need some stationary spies. I still have no idea where he actually is, so he can sod off.

I'm still being followed, and no Aztecs here. The seventh civ has to be far East anyway. Probably has a lot of land to settle. Note how Hamburg definitely is Hamburg, and has a border pop

Now, without the second production city, Istanbul busy doing other stuff, is it still worth actually going for HAs? Do I want the otherwise useless Hunting and Archery? Frederick is kind of weak militarily (1.0 power and all I have is Warriors...), and has a very centrally-located Holy City. No Judaism yet, by the way. The East must have open land to Settle while the other directions just have borders, so I think I'll go for that even if it will take a little longer. Maybe I'll just take Berlin. Only Zara likes him, SB doesn't know him. Just where the hell is SB? Again, his scouting Archer came from the north... but he only knows me, Gilga and Joao. Surely, he can't be squeezed in even further west? But then why did he come from the north and didn't meet Zara or Freddy? It just doesn't make any sense.

There was a blue circle here, which is always a little scary, but I will go for this. Build... Warrior first is an option to fogbust the unsettled northeastern part, but I also could go for a partial monument or Granary, then 1-2 unprometed HAs, then back to that. I don't have TR with Freddy despite having it with Joao, even though there is a road on the river Edirne is on... a bit strange. But my now only one northern worker (other guy finished the long dry intercity road) has his hands full with those two cow tiles (guess I'll bring the other guy back and do something like this:

... might get me some Hindu spread, or at least some money. Baracks 1 turn early... Guess I'll shove in a warrior? Could I even... build the warrior, overflow into the baracks and overflow the combined into a HA? Wouldn't get me a lot though, the total hammers I spend before then are the same... and the rax will only have 1 overflow anyway.

For Ankara, I think I don't need to guard it at all as Joao's capital's third ring should be doing the fogbusting in the east... so I can go up north to the hills with the guy.

Other options, Stable or Chariot (for Scouting, maybe as a medic if he gets a few easy pickings). Granary doesn't give me a lot, neither does Library. The stable is 5 less than the Warrior and one HA (cost should be 50, I looked it up earlier), so essentially worth 1HA. How many HAs do I have to build here for that to be worth it? To my experience, 2xpromoted units to get splendid odds against just Archers this early, let's just take it.
Also a slight change of plan with the roads... my worker who wandered off south can reach the mineless PH now, but not the Cow PH yet. Guess I'll be roading that and the grass hill instead to connect to Mr. Greyskin.
Speaking of whom, he does have a plains cow in the north as Hamburg's sole redeeming quality. Which he is roading right now, but not pasturing. Everyone but him as 3 cities.

I also notice that I did put a turn (just 1) into that Ankara warrior I don't actually want... Ugh. Switched it to a monument now. Maybe I'll keep him in queue if I need some monarchy men later on.

Unhappy? That's what you think at least!
Gilga seems late to BW, SB is getting big... but his score is so low, he probably has low pop?
I also did put in some saving, really no reason to already get the tech. Have to finish the stable anyway. Next turn I'm going to want to start on one HA in the capital though. No overflow for the half-built settler available.

Judaism is finally founded, no idea where. Kind of hoping for the remote Buddhist guy to have it so the nearby civs can enter a nice old Hindu lovefest.
I have to make a tech decision, and the interesting ones are Maths and Alphabet. I'm starved on Forests, won't be able to build Hammams until after the Freddy war -> Alphabet. Nobody has it. Fishing would be another option, but I want to settle north of Istanbul first (before Giggles gets any ideas even though all the tiles not yet in my culture are junk), then the stronger but safer spot.

As for production in Ankara, I could get one HA in about 15 turns by mining and working the Grass hill... not sure if that's worth my while. Eh, I'll do it and finish the monument after that. Every man counts in early war. In fact, I may even whip the HA in Istanbul and repeat that cycle once more.

(next turn, it turns out, it's the Aksumites who have Judaism... probably in that already big second city of theirs.)

Not going to whip yet... I will probably grow unhappy again, then whip the Settler, get the middle city and overflow into what's misssing for the HA.

What are you doing? Working that mine? Anyway, Gems and more green land than I expected. No metal unless he has IW and a hidden mine in the south. Now I don't regret the HBR decision as much anymore, this seems worth going for.
Also, Zara also build GW last turn. In a secondary city. Probably has Stone, or been working on that for a while. Note how Joao also is up to 4 - wherever that new city may be, it's fortunately not settled right in Ankara's face.

Edirne also is , and this time I'm not sure what to do about that, because I have so many good tiles to work. Whip would be 3 pop right now - next turn will be the time to calculate. Second pasture in 2, which will be a 24.

13/turn. The pasture actually did finish, I guess the indicator was misleading.
1 pop should correspond to 30. If I starve and then stagnate (Farm -> Cow), I'll be producing 17/turn (and 1 extra). If I whip, it's 13 at effectively size 3 as my weakest tile is the hill... not worth it despite wasting the food. Really, I should have used the forest or something to slow my growth last turn, then I would be in a better position to grow at will.

If I don't whip (hill->cow), I also get 13, 1 and some irrelevant growth. It's sad that I didn't pay attention last turn, because starving back to size 4 seems like the best option, I just wasted that food. Otherwise I miss out on 4/turn, and that just doesn't seem worth it.

If I do finish this HA and 2 pop whip the next one for 60... I'll be size 3 working the 3 pastures, stagnating at 13. Problem is, I'll have to work the farms again to regrow (without a Granary), so the gained hammers are lost again. Meh. That just sucks. The unwarranted extra pop will have to eat cake...

He actually has comparatively many troops. Of course he can have it. This is actually one reason not to get Alphabet first, I hate the tech begs that will ensue.

Also, Gilga now has 4 cities, seemingly near the copper in the hills range. Good. This means only the East will spawn Barbs. Only a bit sad about the Stone (on the cut-off tile 2S of the German border), which is now in an awkward position between 3 cities.

Down here, I decided for growing in 2 using the cottage, rather than growing in 4 using the mine. Only slighly delays the only HA that city is probably going to build, and that cottage is growing soon.

Two types of barbarians in the East: the unmet Civ (Ragnar or India... given the Buddhism mystery, I think it's probably not Ragnar)... and real ones, of course. I'm not actually interested in meeting the guy before my DOW (thankfully they are mutually infidels), but I do kind of want to investigate that barb city...

Here's that whip. The HA would 1 pop now -> this seems better. Then again, doing it now does delay my GS... significantly. Regrow, then only one guy... let's not do that.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler I reached the image limit for the wrap-up part... :

On the other hand...
Guessing he wants that stupid misplaced extra horse. I need 2 turns to get to the site. Scary.

Creative neighbors, what are they good for? And what a terrible city, too.
I could go 1E of the spot, at least keeping the Floodplain he wants to steal in BFC... not sure if I can hold it against his damn culture. And the blue circle... completely gives up the stolen FP, only shares one tile with Istanbul which was my main intention with this darn city.
So much for that great plan to pingpong production of that Settler and other things I need. I felt safe after he settled Lagash away from me, but no, he spammed out another guy - I think he even whipped him, because Eridu used to be larger than size 3. Damn you Gilgamesh!

Now I would be more inclined to settle the Clam city first instead of getting this culture mess, but then Gilgamesh will settle another absolute junk city between Edirne and Istanbul and cut me in half, possibly threaten to steal my horse with CRE. This is a nightmare!


Now, which variant will I want to use to react here?

Counting Northwest to Southeast.
1. Culture nightmare. Will have to build Monument+Library off the desert hill to survive. Asserts my rightful claim to that floodplain.
2. Defensive variant of this city. Very close to the other two around here, can share food, 3 river plains (=Cottages ) and a random hill with the capital, only the desert tile will have culture issues in the foreseeable future -> better all-around. Gilgamesh can still sneak into some of the badlands between Istanbul and Berlin until I get this city to second and Edirne to third ring... But it is a concession of defeat and settles on a rare and valuable river grass tile.
3. Has been mentioned before once or twice, I believe. Same old planned GP clam site. Fishing after Alpha actually wouldn't hurt... too much. I want Mathematics. Maybe someone already has it and will trade. Probably not, Hanging Gardens and all...


I'll probably settle 2 and later 3 here, hopefully 3 still in the BCs. Not sure if I should take on the barb city (6 or 7 HA turns from Edirne) in the southeast before attacking Freddy... it probably slows me down to much.


Note: Freddy has 5 Archers in his territory as per my HA scout (currently 1 in H, 1 wandering from H to B, 3 in B). One Archer poking around near me (same tile as Clam fogbuster). None of his cities are on hill, but Berlin will probably reach 500fairly soon (should be 9/turn since 3000 BC? Yeah, that can't take much longer...) This is annoying, since it will give him access to that copper and more defense as well. How many HAs do I actually want for that? 7-8? Right now, I have 2 and 3 being built. Edirne builds one every 3 turns., with 2 promos.
I could also shift targets and declare on Gilga out of sheer spite, but he's a spiky one with those disgusting traits and access to vultures (although, only 1.2 power rating right now - Joao is the real deal regarding that)

SB has met Zara in the meantime, but still not...

... Mr "Who needs population anyway?". I know it's pretty late for a HA attack, but he is so weak...
Since E of Berlin looks promising, that is my expansion plan - forget about Gilgamesh denying bad land from me - this guy's backyard needs to be denied from Zara and the Indian, who's probably top of scoreboard or eventually going to be.

Also just realized, I played about 4 hours for those measly 22 turns. Savefile has 10 hours in total now, so around 8 turns per hour, early-game. At least 49 more leaders after this. I need to really decrease the writing detail if I ever want to finish that ALC. While right now, I'm still having fun, I probably will play the next couple games that according to ruleset will still be on Monarch for which I am overthinking waay to much right now somewhat sloppier, unless one of the maps turns out really tricky. Unless I lose and it was all for nothing, then it's back to Prince.


Edit: also, tech plan: {Fishing ->} Maths -> Currency -> COL
With Alphabet, Math only provides a discount for currency (not sure by what percentage... earlier with Writing, it was around 20 or 25% I believe, didn't pay that close attention. However, I'm also desperate for Hammams. 22 for 100 is very attractive right now, I've had it with size 4 cities. Istanbul would be at 8 pop, 9 if I get the Clam... and Monarchy is a big, big detour, no Oracle means no Priesthood trades. Good thing about Monarchy though is my lack of metals.
That and my two western neighbors both love it, too.
Anyway, hoping to trade for Maths and then stabilize the economy for the big push northeast.
Hoping to transition into Rex mode and have Gilga (I think he can declare at pleased?), Joao (what did he spam to get that much power rating? He's not plotting...) and me get Judaism somehow, rather than Hinduism. This should isolate India, who probably has by far the best starting position on the map. Don't care about SB, especially if he really is behind the wall of Joao/Gilga/Zara and I think Freddy has to go, even though he's pleased and not an actual threat.

Overall, the Settling was definitely the most frustrating part of the turnset, thanks to my favorite neighbor (and that one barb, who by the way eventually let off my Warrior and wandered off in Zara's direction... must have been before he built the wall). What I should have done is ignore the northern site, build Ankara where it is without marching my Settler all the way up and down, wasting ~ 8-12 turns, and block settle Gilga with the desert city in the north just a bit earlier. The hasted whip was pointless at that point, it was clear he would be faster - even if he had taken 1 more turn, I would have needed one to finish the Settler, 1 to walk in the general direction and 1 to settle. Apart from that, I think I didn't actually make that many short-term blunders (you may disagree), maybe some strategic mistakes, like... going on with the plan of trying to get that GS out of my capital at low pop while planning a HA attack on Frederick all along.

 

[Choeimok]

Spoiler Turn 89 / 650 BC :

After giving it a few days of rest, playing other games or doing actually useful things...

... a decision was made. If Gilgamesh is boxed in by all non-India AIs as I suspect him to be, this is the only direction he can expand in. He will settle in my face again, and he probably willl try and steal my horses. This way, I get the cottage helper city, 1N2E of the original plan and "stealing" the supercow, but hey, Istanbul doesn't need its food right now anyway.
Instead of the Monument (the second ring is rubbish, but I need to deter his threat), I actually decided on putting Granary first.

Freddy finally grew and actually put out a Settler. Congrats to him!


Now, I did complete researching Alpha as well, eventful turn. Let's 'ave a look:

He has IW! Still no Sailing as suspected. Slow tech pace, thanks to the quality of the land - surprisingly Joao and not Zara is ahead. So much for trading for Maths - I'll have to self-tech even if Joao gets it now. Might actually give THG a shot after the war, from non-cow sources seems like a rare commodity. Then again, I'm non-IND and lack stone until ring 3 in Edirne.

IW is really the only tradable tech that actually interests me right now (Fishing seems like a waste of WFYABTA limit, and so are the two religions ones), but Freddy wants HBR for it. So not happening. No suspicious mines or non-Archer units yet - either he recently got it, or he just has none.
Alpha might have been a mistake, since having it will start tech begs. At least it's a Currency discount, and I have it in the bag.


Now, how likely is it that Settler will either go for the Copper or find Iron somewhere? Looks to me like I have to hurry up, else it might be Spearman time. Good thing is, his Archers will be further spread apart.


Edirne finishes a HA this turn and has the other one who was scouting Gilgaland returning. I have more time up there though to properly position my units.
Ankara can 1 pop whip, overflowing into the monument. It's a yield loss compared to continuing to run the Grass mine, but I save 8 turns - too long otherwise.

My warrior in Istanbul takes 5 turns to reach Edirne - so in 3, a HA can reach and get in position on the border. If the unit from Ankara starts heading NE next turn, it could reach, I think, that roaded plains tile between the 3 cottages. So I want to have a delay of 1 turn before producing the HA in Istanbul.
I can finish him right away by working the Cow and the Plains Cottage (or just getting rid of a Scientist, until the arrival of which I will be stockpiling money). So unlike in the image, I'm actually going to run 2 FPs, switch to both tiles next turn as the other HA finishes and moves close to Istanbul.

Next turn. Hamburg grows and now has 2 Arhcers. Frederick's Settler appears to have moved... East or Northeast, probably. I can't see him.

I miscalculated. This damn unroaded plains tile! Can't finish it with this worker, and just crossing it means the HA finishes the turn on the grass cottage, not one tile ahead on the plains. Doesn't matter though, he reaches the border in 4 turns anyway. Thanks to the city core tile hammer, Istanbul loses less to complete the HA, I can keep working one FP. Size 4 is fine though because I have whip .

I get to lay off 1 scientist and switch from the plains to the grass cottage. Now... do I actually want to build another unit here, or what? The best production I can achieve are 6 turns by working questionable tiles, that's a bit long given its distance form the grey border. Going to build a Granary.

There he goes. This could be interesting. Now would be a nice time for an attack, but I'll have to wait at least 2 turns - then my 2 southern weak HAs are in position and I'll have a shiny new one out of Edirne. Right now with just 4, I could still get luck screwed in Berlin. Still can with 7, but not as likely. 2 pop means he can whip, but not if he isn't already building an unit.

Got my guy. Right now, it's "only" 15 when researching 100%, but this place won't stay size 4 forever... or so I hope, at least.

Dumb luck with the barb and some highly suspicious activity! The tile is already roaded because it lay on the path to the glorious plains cows...

Maths in 5. I'll go for it, because I expect plunder gold to propel me towards Currency even if right now that wouldn't quite work. That's hoping I will actually win, of course...


The barb actually did not attack me. 2 Archers in Berlin, third city is not settled. Presumably, Hamburg also has 2. Berlin actually did not pop its fourth culture ring for 60% defense yet, which is nice (watch that jinx it and it happen next turn )

It's time. I'm sorry, but sometimes you just have to declare at Pleased.
Only got the diplo penalty with Sitting Bull.

Nefarious plan: stopped. Now, it gets interesting...

(side note: Joao has Maths. Won't trade as expected)

BUG says Freddy will sign peace, but he refuses to talk. The name isn't a lie, I guess? Only 2A in Berlin - he did not whip!

Back-to-back victories at 69 and 71% with Combat 2. I guess the second guy wasn't fully fortified. No buildings, and off the river, but I'll keep it - Holy Site and the spot would be contested by India. First build is Warrior, although I might switch to Archer after Anarchy.

2A in Hamburg, one is fully fortified, the other is not. If that is Munich, this is an interesting situation. It would, of course autoraze - unless I were to either demand it for peace or wait a few turns for it to grow. Of the Grass forest, that should be 9 turns, going by Ankara's rate earlier iirc. So turn... 95? 96?
Anyway, as for Hamburg, I can attack with this HA, but the southern ones can't reach - the price of impatience. Oh well, I should be allowed to be a little impatient when it matters after all this micro when it didn't matter as much.

Another win, and this guy is injured less badly than the two in the south. I will send 2 HAs north and one east to maybe catch that wandering Archer. He's probably holed up though. Maybe I should send all 3, might be close if he whips, which he probably will.

Hamburg had a Scout inside last turn beside the Archers (not sure from whom, I think Joao or Freddy himself?), I think this barb just had him for dinner. I have to let him pillage the Cow, else I can't reach Hamburg with both HAs. If he attacks Berlin... my guy still has half HP and he's injured himself, should be enough.

Wait, what? But... wasn't Buddhism like before turn 10? Maybe I remembered that wrong. This changes a lot! At least his score sucks, I expected the easternmost AI to have the greenest land, therefore high pop - not only 3 cities.
He knows everyone except Joao. SB hates him.

Teched a bit different than all those other AIs - he has Sailing and IW, but skipped on Pottery and Poly.

Of course he did it! Just to be obnoxious. And the second guy went up to 20% fortify bonus in an instant from 0... a bit strange. Maybe a bug in display?

Uninjured 2 star guy, best one I have at this point, goes first... and loses. The BUG naming must be off here, because certainly that guy can't have been "Horse Archer 1 Edirne" - the guy who captured the city was the first one, who explored Freddy's territory and ventured north to threaten Hamburg... and found that worker on the way.
Given that I now have 1/Edirne, 2/Edirne,3/Ankara,4/Istanbul,5/Edirne, that guy must have been 6/Edirne - the last one I trained before declaring. The greenhorn, no wonder he didn't make it.

I also decided to keep Hamburg, as while it is a bad city, it has a partial iron mine I can't continue to build, comes with a Granary, religion and it serves as a blocker for Gilga and Zara... and I guess I'd rather have the other spice tile than leave it to somebody else. HA in Berlin has to take care of the barb at last, leaving the city vulnerable* but guarding my 0.6 health guy who just earned his first promotion. (* the healing "guard" still 1 SW in the screenshot happens to have 0.6 health as well - around here I realize, I don't have a medic.)

Should be the last one of these.. and he actually got number 6. Weird. ToA is built - I thought that requires Aesthetics, apparently just Poly. Zara is the culprit, who else could it be?
Anyway, I can 1-turn a Granary and Freddy's growth-inhibiting Gems are coming online next turn, but I actually switch tiles back to max (2 Farms, 2 Cows) - no use for an immediate Granary when I'm stagnant and not unhealthy. (well, with all those grain resources available...)

Worth a try. Note, however: he has 3 cities and 11 food resources, even if it's lots of the same! Not fair!

Mathematics is in, Currency starts. My HAs are kind of stretched out - 3 healing in Berlin, 1 in Hamburg,
I can just barely not finish Currency with the plunder gold... unless I were to acquire more. There's still that southern barb city, and my 2 uninjured HAs who have nothing to do for a few turns (I don't have a Medic and want Munich to grow to 2 (it's honestly not a great city but I'd rather not have Ragnar steal the greenest site I've had a chance at getting so far... Settler production will be too slow to make up for a raze here), hope he actually works one of the grass forests, not the jungle hill or the plains tile..)

Another thing, I kind of want an Archer in Hamburg because it's kind of barb-threatened from 2 directions - a single barb spear would screw me over big time in this general area - and while they are rare, they are not unheard of, especially near metal-less players.

So, that is the plan... have a shot at the barb city, finish off Freddy by taking, not razing, his last city, or rather village, have Edirne (which really is my main city here) spam Settlers, growing occassionaly while building... I just realized, Hammams need Masonry. Blarg. Yuck. I keep forgetting it's not just for Wonders and Construction.

My "best friend" Gilgamesh is the only one who would trade it... or I could take it off a Freddy surrender (he does not, however, appear to be willing to give IW though - his offer is Fishing, Poly, Medi, keeping IW and Masonry - rubbish)

Last thing, the kind of underwhelming food situation in this area. I mean, Hamburg is clear, that's going to be a low-pop prod city until at least bio. That first ring in particular is unrepentingly terrible, fortunately that's "only" for 10 turns.
But Berlin... doesn't have enough Food to even work that single mine, as our friend found out. It seems like a nice place for Communist watermills (which makes me regret the non-raze a little, it could have been on the river ... opportunity cost, how my perfectionism despises thee!) But I'm far from Machinery, and a few turns further from Communism... so what do I actually do with this flat-but-starving place? Farms until Machinery to work the Gems and have some pop? Cottages on the river? Not really warming up to either of these. What an awkward capital (well, not anymore) this guy got stuck with...