about Bannor

[orangelex44]

I think I mentioned this before at least once, but Crusade really only seems useful as a last-ditch effort or a needless advantage. You either need it to die more slowly, or you don't need it to steamroll the enemy faster.

 

[onedreamer]

@Orangelex44

why do you use impersonal subject when you state your personal opinions ? I can make a much better use of Crusade than you seem to, hence please speak for yourself next time.

 

[orangelex44]

@Orangelex44

why do you use impersonal subject when you state your personal opinions ? I can make a much better use of Crusade than you seem to, hence please speak for yourself next time.

What now? I was speaking my opinion....

 

[Imuratep]

I agree with onedreamer. Crusade is quite useful. You just need some techs (like Order, Iron Work) and you never have to research at all. My brother and I had a very funny game with 16 opponents on a huge map, where we had a shared border and when he and I declared war on one opponent, 6 others declared war on us the next 10 turns. I thought hmm you have a quite good army but 6 opponents let's give it a try (First I was undecided because of the 3 turns anarchy), but then I saw what great help it was though I had only about 6 cities. Together we managed to conquer three different civilizations (each of these was much more advanced as we were, but we managed it) My economy was nearly not existent anymore but who cares if you get loads of new units that can crush anyone. We never finished the game because 0.34 released, but I'm sure we would have beaten them all.
That said Bannor can be very strong, but I think something apart from Crusade would be nice, perhaps something that supports their strenghtes (especially if you want to play Capria which just by spiritual is quite good but doesn't have the warmongering power of Sabathiel).
Don't give them new and better units, Bannor ARE really good at warmongering if you reach crusade, I think noone could stop a steamroll like this coming to your land used by a clever player.

Give them something that supports their economy, even in peacetime because Capria has traits more useful for peace and Bannor aren't just Sabathiel.

I would suggest to show their devotion to their country by giving them + 1 for cottages and hamlets and +2 for towns and villages.
Another possibility would be to give them a national unit that can be used as a second palace that also reduces their civic upkeep by a certain percentage or a court that reduces the city's upkeep by 60% instead of 40%.

 

[onedreamer]

they did have such a unit in the beginning. The guardsman would reduce maintenance by 10%.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Imuratep, you ever considered using Order with them? Courthouse's + Basilica's equals a whopping -80% maintenance on any city with both. Thought it might take a bit of time to build, this is by far one of the Bannor's best possible religious choices.

Oh, and I don't remember if this is true or not, but the spell Unyielding Order SHOULD remove all maintenance costs, and it's available to the high priests of the Order. Definetly a nice unit to keep in a stack if you plan on capturing a particular city.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Unyielding Order works as advertised. You don't get enough of it to be an effective maintenance cost reducer empire-wide but it completely halts a revolt in progress. The only problem is that it does not prevent revolts for some reason.

 

[arcticnightwolf]

Imuratep, you ever considered using Order with them? Courthouse's + Basilica's equals a whopping -80% maintenance on any city with both. Thought it might take a bit of time to build, this is by far one of the Bannor's best possible religious choices.

Oh, and I don't remember if this is true or not, but the spell Unyielding Order SHOULD remove all maintenance costs, and it's available to the high priests of the Order. Definetly a nice unit to keep in a stack if you plan on capturing a particular city.

Once I captured 24 pop city in center of enemy's lands ... I casted Unyielding Order in this city and because I had Guilds all 24 people transformed to artists ... No problem with enemy culture...

 

[avalonnn]

thanks for the tips! I think I'll try bannor next time. I especially like the -80 percent maintenance.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Reduction in maintenance is from Courthouses (-40%, anyone can build) and Basilicas (-40%, must follow Order to build). So you don't have to be Bannor to get the -80%.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

edit: changed my mind

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

can't remember who said that the Bannor lack a unique feel and that their feel is actually Order and not Bannor, but I totally agree. it would be awesome to give them some abilities that reflect their innate fanaticism, stubbornness (sic) and total devotion to the ideal they choose to follow. Order should still be their default way and have a good synergy, but they should still have other options. Empyrean bannor should be the most peacemongering civ on Erebus, FoL bannor should be more treehugging than any pansy elf, AV bannor should make the sheaim look like nice guys , etc.

 

[GePap]

In keeping with the flavor and lore of Bannor, I think Bannor should be able to always draft units, and should have no negative repercussion from doing so. After all, Bannor is a completely militarized society, so there shouldn't be a negative result from telling the Bannor to go do their duty.

 

[Imuratep]

Imuratep, you ever considered using Order with them? Courthouse's + Basilica's equals a whopping -80% maintenance on any city with both. Thought it might take a bit of time to build, this is by far one of the Bannor's best possible religious choices.

Oh, and I don't remember if this is true or not, but the spell Unyielding Order SHOULD remove all maintenance costs, and it's available to the high priests of the Order. Definetly a nice unit to keep in a stack if you plan on capturing a particular city.

I was the Founder of the Order, but hadn't researched Religious Order as we started war and my research was quite consumed by war, so the time i would have finished it, I would have won the war anyway, because every conquered city brought some new units for free, because of Crusade. I also found it quite interesting to lead a war against the rest of the world and to be able to win it, though you're way behind in overall research level.

 

[BugReportage]

Btw... Crime rate is directly related to inflation I believe.

 

[Annex]

Unyielding Order works as advertised. You don't get enough of it to be an effective maintenance cost reducer empire-wide but it completely halts a revolt in progress. The only problem is that it does not prevent revolts for some reason.

Are you sure? I just played a game where I captured the Order holy city and used unyielding order provided by Sphener, and my city didnt even revolt once, despite being surrounded by enemy culture and only having at the most 11% of my nationality.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

My last game as Order was v33 and I did have a culture revolt while Unyielding Order was in the city. I had to move my Prior out of town for a turn, so Unyielding Order disappeared, and then move back in to cast it again. I remember it clearly, because I thought that Unyielding Order would stop AND prevent revolts, so I was a little miffed by the pointless inconvenience.
In the city screen, mouseover the culture bar (lower left, above build queue) to see the % of culture for each nation as well as the chance for revolt. In my example above, my culture was 0 or 1%, and the chance of revolt was double digits. I had to bring in most of my nations Skeletons to get the chance of revolt down to 0%.

 

[Annex]

My last game as Order was v33 and I did have a culture revolt while Unyielding Order was in the city. I had to move my Prior out of town for a turn, so Unyielding Order disappeared, and then move back in to cast it again. I remember it clearly, because I thought that Unyielding Order would stop AND prevent revolts, so I was a little miffed by the pointless inconvenience.
In the city screen, mouseover the culture bar (lower left, above build queue) to see the % of culture for each nation as well as the chance for revolt. In my example above, my culture was 0 or 1%, and the chance of revolt was double digits. I had to bring in most of my nations Skeletons to get the chance of revolt down to 0%.

Yeah i checked, I had 11% culture at most but there was no revolt chances.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

unyielding order sould both prevent AND stop revolts I guess. it's way more useful and intuitive that way